The Democratic Position on Iraq

[skydyvr 0]

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If you had a valid point on anything that is discussed here rather than sniping.. it would be.

Nice try, but what I post here has JACK to do with the sheer HILARITY of you describing yourself as a "moderate".

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So I guess you have been too busy to serve anything but yourself too, right?

You're clueless on this topic but, as usual, you'll still have plenty of nothing to say about it.

. . =(_8^(1)

[JohnnyD 0]

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And your insinuation that intelligence can ever be 100% accurate is asinine by any standard. Your assertion that what is going on in the Middle East is not worth the effort wouldn't win you much support among the military folks I know - and I know many of them from every service.

I did not mean to insinuate that intelligence can or should be 100% accurate, however, when making a decision to take this country to war, to shed the blood of tens of thousands, to spend hundreds of billions of dollars, to cause our young men and women to give the ultimate sacrifice, you better be 100% sure. You do not get a free pass to say oops, my bad on that. In the making of that decision, the intelligence must be 100% correct.
No exceptions or excuses.
That is really the fundamental difference between us. You insist on saying left and right. I only care about right and wrong. I would say the exact same thing if a Democrat or Independent was president. I don't think you would.

[rushmc 23]

If the story is the truth then what is the problem

there is non...

Hell, anybody can call NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR et al
and get a lie publised for free

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,146]

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And your insinuation that intelligence can ever be 100% accurate is asinine by any standard. Your assertion that what is going on in the Middle East is not worth the effort wouldn't win you much support among the military folks I know - and I know many of them from every service.

Ahem. Expecting 100% is unrealistic, but expecting 50% is very reasonable.

In fact there were a lot of reports that contradicted Bush's cherry picked statements, as Powell stated just last week.

I too know many military folks between E5 and O6. I know NONE that claim that our military is properly trained for fighting an insurgency, nor any that claim this is what was expected in 2003.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If the story is the truth then what is the problem

there is non...

Hell, anybody can call NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, NPR et al
and get a lie publised for free

They will even help you make one up.

[TheAnvil 0]

Your ability to contradict yourself is most impressive

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I did not mean to insinuate that intelligence can or should be 100% accurate

as compared with

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In the making of that decision, the intelligence must be 100% correct.
No exceptions or excuses.

Come to grips with the fact that intelligence can never be 100% accurate all of the time. You'll be a lot happier person when thinking about politics and foreign policy when you do.

If you think I don't criticize Mr. Bush, then you really don't read my posts very often. True, I bash the left because the majority of them seem to be buffoons who hide behind lies and deception to mislead their voting base, but I do not agree with every decision the President has made. If you want to bash him, do so intelligently.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[JohnnyD 0]

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Come to grips with the fact that intelligence can never be 100% accurate all of the time. You'll be a lot happier person when thinking about politics and foreign policy when you do.

If you think I don't criticize Mr. Bush, then you really don't read my posts very often. True, I bash the left because the majority of them seem to be buffoons who hide behind lies and deception to mislead their voting base, but I do not agree with every decision the President has made. If you want to bash him, do so intelligently.

What could I be thinking?
We are in the midst of a war that to date has cost us thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars. We started the war based on one reason and we were 100% wrong.
I guess pointing out the incredibly obvious and wanting accountability is unintelligent president bashing?
Seriously, right and wrong is more important than right and left. To some people, anyway.

[TheAnvil 0]

A few questions for your military compadres: if the military is not trained for fighting an insurgency - who is? Do they advocate surrender everytime an insurgency pops up in an area in which they are operating? Did they honestly expect to invade then leave en masse? If so, did they ever take a history class or look at how our forces have been deployed to Korea, Japan, and Germany for the past 50+ years?

The Dem position on Iraq is to have seems to be no position other than to oppose Bush. Truly pathetic. Look at this thread - the 'we never should have been there!' and 'Bush manipulated the intel to get us there!' and 'Bush lied to get us to invade!' and the like are still part of the Dem response to any conversation about Iraq. Any thoughts from them on how to do anything better? (note: withdraw immediately is just stupid and doesn't really qualify as a thought) Any thought on how we should proceed from here? Any thoughts as to what sort of aid we should give the new government? Any thoughts on the Syrian situation? How about the Iranian situation? How either Syria's or Iran's military or political postures affect how we should proceed in Iraq? Nada from the left. Only oppose and hate Bush. Pretty pathetic that one of two major political parties in the US is limited to such shenanigans. A true testament to the state of public education in America - thank you NEA.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

100% wrong, eh? Read up a bit and get back to us.

If you were truly interested in accountability, you'd be screaming about the # of representatives and senators who had access to intelligence and never bothered to read it just as loudly as you seem to bash the President. You'd be screaming about former Senator Kerrey's partison bullshit during the 9/11 hearings and how his partisanship wasted its time. Among other things. You aren't. It's 'Bush was wrong! Our intel was wrong! Bush lied! It's all Bush's fault! We shouldn't have gone there!' ad infinitum.

We're there. We're going to be there for a while. Get onboard and get over it.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

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You're clueless on this topic but, as usual, you'll still have plenty of nothing to say about it.

Then by all means, Clue us in.. Please enlighten all of us to the years of service to America. I am just curious... So many on the far right seem to mouth the words of Patriotism but do not follow thru on it with any form of service to country let alone GOD.

ONe of the usual suspects told me yesterday he would never do it because it was not common sence to serve for so little money. I thought the right was so patriotic. Then again I guess you are just following the administrations lead. Most of the patriotic heros in the administration seem to have been too busy to serve either. Here we are in a time of war and yet recruiting numbers are falling behind
needs.

Sung to the Tune of Country Joe and the Fish
SOOOO Come on all of you big Strong Men,
Uncle Sam needs your Help Again,
Got him self in a bit of plight,
taking on the insurgents in an endless fight.

So put down that checkbook and pick up a gun,
You too can have a whole lot of fun.
And its one two three what are fightin for,
Please ask me I do give a shit,
Next stop is near Tikrit.


Well I think I will let some others add on to our new little ditty here.

REmember... we are supporting the war here.. no bashing our people.

[skydyvr 0]

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I am just curious...

You scare me.

. . =(_8^(1)

[juanesky 0]

Don't know, but the comments sound pretty dellusional.

I don't hate GW, but that &*^%&^% Neocon-ultra righties bitches...

Oh well, she likes to compare herself to her beloved skerry, as in service, but doesn't have the guts to admit that GWB also served. I prefer a commander in chief who at least has gone through military trainning, then a sexual harrasser, who lies under oath.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[JohnnyD 0]

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100% wrong, eh? Read up a bit and get back to us.

Iraq possess weapons of mass destruction and the United States is under the threat of imminent attack.
- 100% wrong. Iraq did not have wmd's and therefore could not attack us with them.
Please tell me what I need to read up on.

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If you were truly interested in accountability, you'd be screaming about the # of representatives and senators who had access to intelligence and never bothered to read it just as loudly as you seem to bash the President. You'd be screaming about former Senator Kerrey's partison bullshit during the 9/11 hearings and how his partisanship wasted its time. Among other things. You aren't. It's 'Bush was wrong! Our intel was wrong! Bush lied! It's all Bush's fault! We shouldn't have gone there!' ad infinitum.

Here is an update: Bush WAS wrong. The intel WAS wrong. It IS Bush's fault. We shouldn't have gone.
I'm just pointing out the painfully obvious with the benefit of hindsight. The fact that you refuse to accept that which is now plainly obvious tells me you have an absolute inability to see or think beyond the party line.
Congress authorized giving the president the authority to use force at his discretion. That was a huge mistake. I think we need Congress to be forced to declare war in the future. It would lead to more accountability than what we have now, which is a bunch of chicken shit Congressmen and Senators who were too afraid to say no in the shadow of 9/11.
FWIW - I thought Bush was doing a good job in the aftermath of 9/11 right up to the point when he completely dropped the ball and gave up fighting the people who actually attacked us and are still to this day out there somewhere.

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We're there. We're going to be there for a while. Get onboard and get over it.

That is the unfortunate reality, but as Americans, we have the duty to hold our government accountable. I wish that would happen, but we can't wipe out two branches of the gov't. I would settle for one.

[skydyvr 0]

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Don't know, but the comments sound pretty dellusional.

Amazon once swore never again to post in SC. When I called her on breaking that promise, she commented that "someone else" made her come back and resume posting. Isn't that special?

. . =(_8^(1)

[TheAnvil 0]

Reading is fundamental. I've stated the intel was flawed. I've stated Bush made the decision based upon faulty intel. And here you are stating that I don't face those facts. Hilarious. Utterly hilarious!

Here's a fact for you: THE LEFT HAS NO PLAN.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Now what, exactly, is so fucked up the democrats can't take a position on it? Well - they can't take a position on anything else other than oppose Bush, so why should Iraq be any different?

I see your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired.....

The statement was the the Democratic Party will not have a unified statement on it, but that individual members of the party are free to have their own thoughts, ideas and opinions on it. Imagine that, they are allowed to express their own opinions, I know that is a little bit scary for the Republicans in the crowd to consider....

Quite a bit different from what you are claiming there, isn't it?

On the intelligence issue....you obviously believe an honest mistake was made. Some believe that intelligence that did not fall in line with the established goals was purposly ignored.

[Amazon 7]

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Oh well, she likes to compare herself to her beloved skerry, as in service, but doesn't have the guts to admit that GWB also served. I prefer a commander in chief who at least has gone through military trainning, then a sexual harrasser, who lies under oath.

So lets see a guy who actually served in combat... and took fire deserves derision in your eyes, as oppsed to someone you hold up as a hero who never flew a moment of combat and got into his unit in the first place because he was from a prominent family based on his daddys connections. HMMMMMMMM And did he serve out his commitment??? Can you answer why as a pilot he did not show up for a flight physical which might have picked up his use of drugs and never served after that because he was grounded? I served 8 years active duty in the same years and I KNOW what kind of Guard or reserve components actually DID get called up because I was involved with their training on their way to SE Asia.

You guys keep bringing up Clinton.. MAN it must REALLLLLY suck to hate a guy so much just cause he got a few blowjobs and you are pissed about that because I am I am thinking some of you do not get too much action over there in ultra conservative land .

ONE of you Ultra Righties here even said in another thread that anything that is not missionary procreational sex is not really sex. So with Blow Job Billy's background he reallly did not have sexual relations with that woman, just as he said.

Notice that Clinton DID use our military sparingly, since with his background he did not want to send them without just cause and on advice from our professionl military leaders.

This is COMPLETELY different from this administration that ALMOST to a man also avoided the draft the same way thru defferments or other means because they were to busy to serve?? They have NOT used our military sparingly since they are such experts in its use as stated in the New American Century manifesto.

So Juan have you transferred to a combat arms component of the military yet. I mean you would not want to miss getting your quota now that its open season. I mean some of you guys did make such a big deal out of that back a couple years ago... and now I hear from one of the chickenhawks here its not common sence to serve because the pay is not good. So much for patriotism from that component from the ultra right.

[TheAnvil 0]

The major issue of the day and the DNC has no opinion. Fantastic! Fits right in with my opinion of them.

Of course members of each party are allowed to have their own opinions. If you'd read a bit about right leaning politicians you might realize that to be the case.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The major issue of the day and the DNC has no opinion.

Wouldn't the position of the party be an accumulation of the position of its members? Last time I checked the DNC was not a human being with the ability to voice an opinion.

I think its members have many an opinion on this issue...you just don't like what they have to say about it. Since in your mind it was just a simple mistake...could have happened to anybody....

Tell me something, don't you find it kind of odd that this "common mistake" was partly made because your fearless leader heard a voice in his head? Do you think that is normal?

[JohnnyD 0]

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Here's a fact for you: THE LEFT HAS NO PLAN.

And I say again: You are all about left and right. You support something you know is wrong because of it.
I'll say it again because its worth it:

Right and wrong is more important than right and left.

Thanks for making my point.

[rushmc 23]

Hate Clinton? No, I did not hate him. I hate what he did to the office of the President. I hate the fact that a felon did not get impeached because the Repulicans were afraid of the washington media.

No, I don't hate him. I bring him up to show your complete and utter hypocrosy.

There are many things Bush is doing, along with the Republicans in congress that I do not like. But, we are a safer country because of him. I can not even imagine how many more attacks would have been complted had Kerry won.

All the Senators had access to the intel reports. 6 siged the report out.

SH did have WMDs but because of the left BS IMHO SH move those weapons and programs to Syria.

SH did have contacts REGULARLY with al queda, those records are coming out but your news sources refuse to report on it because it does not fit thier agenda.

The extreem left is not blind. They approach this with thier eyes wide shut. Why, nothing more than to try and destroy Bush. But because he has character, vision and a moral compas, oh, and he does what he says he is going to do, the left hates him more.

Oh for the good old days of Watergate and Vietnam. Back when the media was yours and parroted your blather.

No, I don't hate Clinton, but I have learned to hate what he now stands for

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Here's a fact for you: THE LEFT HAS NO PLAN.

And I say again: You are all about left and right. You support something you know is wrong because of it.
I'll say it again because its worth it:

Right and wrong is more important than right and left.

Thanks for making my point.

You are almost correct here because it is about right and wrong!

Bush is right, you are wrong.........but your hatred will not let you see......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TheAnvil 0]

Perhaps the title of the thread eluded you. Among other things.

What is it I'm supporting that is wrong, exactly?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[TheAnvil 0]

Here we go. More of the same from the left.

'Bush took us to war under false pretenses!'

'Bush lied!'

'Bush is an idiot who spilled innocent blood!'

'Bush was wrong!'

Still harping on Bush's taking us to war based upon intelligence that was not 100% accurate while simultaneously failing to grasp the fact that intelligence is NEVER 100% accurate.

When will the leftists get it through their heads that

1) intelligence is never 100% accurate
2) we are in Iraq now, like it or not
?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Amazon 7]

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we are in Iraq now, like it or not

Yeah stay the course...

History repeats itself... how long did we stay the course in SE Asia???

Intelligence was pretty fucked up there too...Adn we are still turing courners.. DAYUM... there sure are a lot of corners in Iraq...... Vietnam had corners too... just around every little hamlet tht was "pacified"