"Nigger" the dog - Dambusters

[br0k3n 0]

yes

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[miked10270 0]

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the British black/colored/whatever population really wasnt statistically significant until the 50s...

20% of the recorded population of London in the 1720's!

Approx 15% of Nelson's Fleet at The Battle of Trafalgar!

Strangely, within 2 generations they had all "disappeared". They didn't go back to Africa. They didn't die. They weren't slaves. In fact the majority of them were professionals or merchants!

What happened was that they simply married, ususally outwith their race, had kids, and the "Negroid strain" diluted until it was no longer discernible.

Then again, there just wasn't the issue of "RACE" in Britain at that time. Effectively, no-one gave a flying fuck what colour you were. Happy days.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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But somehow I doubt it was the first dog name that came to the writer's mind.

You miss the point. There was no "writer". The film simply tells what actually happened. No one came up with the name "nigger" for the film, that actually was the name of the real dog owned by the real person Guy Gibson who did actually exist in real life.

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If it simply reflects the pervading thought of that time regarding Black people and that's it's main aim, then it should be changed.

The main point of the name staying is not to lie to people about history. It really was the real dog's real name.

The value it brings to the story is that it does exactly what you state - it reflects the pervading thought of that time regarding Black people. That is the VERY reason why it should remain and cutting it out would be so dangerous.

The pervading thought of that time as you put it was complete indifference to colour. There was not racism in England as there was in the US or even as there is in England today. For the most part, no one cared.

If no one cared if you're black or white and there are no negative connotations to the word "nigger" then why the hell not call your dog "nigger"? At the time it was just a name like any other.

That is one of the important cultural lessons the name's inclusion in the film could teach young people. British racism in its present form is for the most part borne out of 50's and 60's mass immigration which was perceived to threaten labour markets. It is also due to a good deal of cultural seepage from the US.

It didn't really exist in the 1940's. We imported it from you guys and by endangering our labour markets. That surely is an important lesson; to demonstrate the utter indifference to race that our recent past exhibits.

[eflynn 0]

I've hardly missed the point. If you read my original post I begin by saying "I think if the dog being named "nigger" is essential to the story line of the film then it shouldn't be changed." If it was actually his name as you say then it is essential to the story line.


"The pervading thought of that time as you put it was complete indifference to colour."

Perhaps that was the climate in England but here it was much different which is further evidenced by the fact this thread exists.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Well ok then, I guess that comes down to a difference of opinion then...

I'm happy to concede that I don't suggest the dog's name is essential to the storyline just because it happened to be his name in real life.

The story would still go on even if he was called Chewbacca. It would contain lies... but the story would still be essentially the same.

Although I do see your point... the story would no longer be the story, just a very very similar story involving a dog called Toto.

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Perhaps that was the climate in England but here it was much different which is further evidenced by the fact this thread exists.

ehem... a thread on a multinational website started by a Brit about a British remake of a British film depicting things done by Brits in Britain. I'm not sure that it really matters that much what Americans in 1940 thought.

[jdhill 0]

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where are they going to get real lancaster bombers?

There are at least 2 flying Lancasters, of course they are on different sides of the pond... The dog's name should stay "Nigger"...

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[rehmwa 2]

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I consider ALL americans emotoinally retarded

BTW, the emotional, retarded whiny thing: that was aimed at the overly gormless PC types who are incapable of having a conversation on taboo subjects because it brings up such crushing personal guilt and loathing because of their recognition of their own deeply rooted racism.

A=B and B=C, then A=C (All americans are overly gormless PC types......)

Not all of us care about the PC whiny crap - only the 50% of the population who are liberals, and half of the rest because it's the fad thing. It's a complete waste of energy and the other 25% of us that don't care find it amusing and somewhat distracting and a bit odd. We avoid the PC topics because the other 75% seem to freeze up when it happens and that makes us sad to see them bind up mentally and start tripping over things. But if we're just out and having fun, it's a good gag to do on purpose - like cow tipping - or encouraging Ian/Ien. It's also a good thing to do on purpose if you want to get invited to the 'in' parties and/or make some money on talk shows without having to any research or put any mental effort into it. Commentators that like to talk in rhyme seem particularly good at this.

What's "gormless" - I like the sound of that.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AlexCrowley 0]

Of course not ALL - but that was in response to the guy with crappy comprehension saying I was calling all blacks emotionally retarded.

It's weird, I understand the majority of PC types tend to be liberal, but I've seen my fair share of conservatives think in a similar way on various other subjects.

I think its the whole buried guilt thing in action - liberals tend to have more guilt about their being human.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Skyrad 0]

*** Is there a more degrading name to call a black person than Nigger? ***

Yea, Kaffer

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[AlexCrowley 0]

which firmly returns us to Americans being egocentric fucks who think they are the center of the universe and that all media should be tailored for thier own club-footed sense of self-righteousness.

Thanks for driving my point home.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[billvon 3,085]

>Not all of us care about the PC whiny crap - only the 50% of the
> population who are liberals . . ..

I'm a liberal and I could care less whether they called a dog 'nigger' in an old movie.

[eflynn 0]

Someone needs a hug.

[rwieder 0]

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Is there a more degrading name to call a black person than Nigger?

Yep. Try calling one a "Spear Chucker" or "Yard Ape" maybe even "Porch Monkey"

I can't believe this conversation about an old movie with a dog named nigger, it really cracks me up.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[AlexCrowley 0]

I'm sorry you feel bad enough to require one.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[wmw999 2,557]

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Is there a more degrading name

Probably depends on the person, where they're from, and who's doing the calling.

Nigger would do pretty well in much of the US coming from a white person.
Kaffir would do pretty well in South Africa, again coming from a white person
"not the father of our son" would probably be pretty awful coming from his wife...
Stupid coming from his teacher

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AlexCrowley 0]

I ate a big red candle.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[wmw999 2,557]

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I ate a big red candle.

Was that to shoot fire out your ass? .

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Alias 0]

I say call the dog "Stains"

Come stains!

Carpe Diem

[rehmwa 2]

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>Not all of us care about the PC whiny crap - only the 50% of the
> population who are liberals . . ..

I'm a liberal and I could care less whether they called a dog 'nigger' in an old movie.

Just wallowing in stereotypes for the fun of it, I thought you would respond to that though.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steve1 5]

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>
I'm a liberal and I could care less whether they called a dog 'nigger' in an old movie.

Could this be because you are a "White" liberal?

What if the name in that movie insulted you, your children, and all of your family? I'll bet you'd feel differently then.

I doubt if any white person (in America) knows what it is like to be on the receiving end of racism. Oh, sure we've probably experienced some of that, somewhere, sometime, someplace, from members of another race. But hell, we're on top, we're members of the dominant race....right? So what if we trash another minorities rights. I'd like to think we have a better since of social consciousness than that in America. And I never said the U.S. is the center of the Universe.

We've had tons of racism here, but I also think we're moving in a positive direction. And things have changed greatly even in the past 20 years.

Most Blacks I know here, find the word very degrading, and insulting. That is why I'd like to hear a Black's perspective on all this. It's not going to hurt most White folks feelings whether or not a dog is called "Nigger" in an old movie.

So far the only Black jumper who has spoken up on this issue is one person who said he would really rather not comment on what the word "Nigger" means to him.

So what good is it for a bunch of white people to get together and haggle over the word "Nigger" and then say it doesn't hurt me any, so it must be okay.

It's like having a bunch of crazy "Black" people get together and say I think we need to make a movie with a white dog, named "White Mother F-er". And then have them all agree, "there's nothing wrong with that!"

I've never seen this movie. But it sounds to me like it'll never fly (in it's original format), in my country......Steve1

[artistcalledian 0]

i think the dog should be replaced by an Urangutang, and call it either Tina Turner or kunta Kinte

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[rwieder 0]

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i think the dog should be replaced by an Urangutang, and call it either Tina Turner or kunta Kinte

Just when i didn't think i'd ever hear anything fly off of your keyboard with any humour...............

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[skydyvr 0]

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I doubt if any white person (in America) knows what it is like to be on the receiving end of racism.

If you'd been a white kid growing up in Hawaii like me, that statement would NEVER come out of your keyboard.

. . =(_8^(1)

[shropshire 0]

People do tend to forget that racism isn't a one way street!....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Andy9o8 2]

I'm deeply offended by the name "Dambusters". I mean, if you squint, it looks kinda blasphemous. I think it should be changed to "Darnbusters".