Mysticism

[happythoughts 0]

clicky

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Using animal instincts to forecast weather

Not sure when there will be enough snow to go skiing this winter? The Swiss "weather prophets" have the answer based on reading cows horns and mice tails.

This is newsworthy because it smacks of the ridiculous.

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It is a cold, clear December morning in the village of Rothenthurm in central Switzerland and a thin crust of snow covers the ground. Martin Horat enters the cowshed of a neighbour's farm.

Reading tea leaves would be too simple for the 61-year-old who, in his own words, was born with the gift for weather forecasting.

Instead, with the farmer's help, he takes a cow by the horns and begins to file, scrape and polish, eventually revealing a set of parallel dark lines close to the skull (see video).

Sizing up the length and width of the markings, Horat confidently exclaims that Switzerland is in for a rather mild winter.

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"You look to see if the mouse has a long or short tail," he says while laying traps in a field in the hilly countryside of canton Schwyz, where the weather prophets are at home.

Reading tea leaves is deemed silly, but yet people still try to tell their future by the stars.

People tell a child that they don't really have an "invisible friend" that they play with... but then tell them that they are late to the church/mosque.

All over the world, people are killing each other because of their invisible friends. At least the child is just playing pirate captain with theirs.

People (well most) no longer pray to the spirits of the streams and trees. The Druids in Britain used to do it, but now it is "primitive" if a group in Borneo does it. (Even though it seems to have as much basis in fact as the Protestants in Boston.)

So, who's next ? What will be the next religion (or form of mysticism) to be cast to the dustbin ?

I vote for astrology and telling the weather with cow horns.

[kallend 2,151]

"Virtually every major move and decision the Reagans made during my time as White House Chief of Staff was cleared in advance with a woman in San Francisco who drew up horoscopes to make certain that the planets were in a favorable alignment for the enterprise.", Donald Regan, White House Chief of Staff 1985-1987, in For the Record, 1988

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[happythoughts 0]

Nancy Reagan was supposed to be very involved with astrology. Of course, I equate any supernatural interests as equal. So, writing letters to Santa is equal to praying or reading your horoscope.

I wonder why she never blinked. You could watch that woman on a nationally televised broadcast for 45 minutes and she not once. I thought maybe she was an alien.

It is politically expediant to have media pics of a politician walking into church because of the public image.

Carter was the finest example of "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions". He was probably well-intentioned, but he functioned in a naive manner.

A politician in front of church makes me think:
Is he trying to convince us of his moral standing?
Is he scamming us?
Does he do what the spirits tell him?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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So, writing letters to Santa is equal to praying or reading your horoscope.

Just curious, but have you ever read any books by Christian philosophers? Thomas Aquinas, CS Lewis, Pope John Paul II, Teilhard de Chardin?

You may find (even if you don't agree with their beliefs re. the existence of a personal God) that there's a hell of a lot more depth to it than a belief in the tooth fairy or whatever.

Have you read any books by philosophers who believe in God?

Speed Racer
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[happythoughts 0]

Soren Keirkegaard once said, "If there wasn't a God, someone would have to invent one."

Most people can figure out what is right and wrong. Most religious people know what is moral, and then try to find a church that matches their belief system. They don't go there to learn, but to reinforce that they are moral.

Philosophy is just trying to figure some stuff out. People who make their living in theology don't have answers because they don't live with the same pressures of others. Their home/salary/lives are guaranteed.

You can't write about the answers for life when you aren't part of life. I've seen it between nurses who are nuns and live in convent vs and nurses who are married/kids/relationships/life.

Jesus needs 3 kids, a 30-yr mortgage, and a job with little future - instead of hanging out with commerical fishermen and chatting.

[philh 0]

I read plenty of Christian philopshers ssuch as The Case for Christ by lee Sobel, Mere chsritianity by CS Lewis plus plenty of bible study as i was religious for many years. once you take th blinkers off theres no more depth to religion than to Santa. have you read Alvin Plantinga?Ive never seen someone dress up simple arguments from ignorance in such a cumbersome manner. dont bother is my advice.

[kbordson 8]

Thoughts....

What is mysticisim? It's the act of trying to understand the "unknown." Beliefs of today are different from a hundred years ago and will be different at a hundred years in the future.
We, as creatures, try to understand, to apply logic, to have meaning... and sometimes there aren't answers. So rather than admit that we are ignorant, we make it up. "The sun rises because the Gods deem it so as their will." "The flood came to rid the world of evil." "He/She got sick and died because of the 'evil eye'."

I am willing to admit there are many aspects of life that I know very little about.... Why do some people die in a tragedy, but others might survive - luck? intervention? God? I don't know. I have no firm proof on those answers. But I hope that the answer has more to do with just random numbers.... I hope that theres a level beyond what I can see and understand.... I believe that there is more to life than just electrical impulses for 40-60 years and then *poof* no more.
Is that Mysticism? Is that "religion"? Or is it just hope that there is a purpose.....

Karen

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Soren Keirkegaard once said, "If there wasn't a God, someone would have to invent one."

This argument begs the question. Iimagine a parallel universe which could develop all by itself & give rise to intelligent life forms similar to us. And imagine that it can be established that there is no God in that universe.
Now some may believe that among humans in our own universe a belief in God is nothing more than a psychological crutch that some people, by their nature, have a need for. Kierkegaard is making an unfounded assumption that the "humans" in the godless universe would have that same psychological quality.

Speed Racer
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[SpeedRacer 1]

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People who make their living in theology don't have answers because they don't live with the same pressures of others. Their home/salary/lives are guaranteed.

Have you ever read a biography of Pope John Paul II? He lived through some pretty serious shit both before and during his papacy. Nazis, communism, etc. Would you say his life was more cloistered & sheltered & free of stress than say, your life?

Speed Racer
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[SpeedRacer 1]

By the way, I'm not trying to convert any atheists here. I'm simply trying to say that there are thoughtful people out there, theologians and lay people as well, who believe in God. We are talking about spiritual aspects of the cosmos here, and I'm not saying you have to agree with them, I'm only asking if you can respect someone who, in pondering the universe, has arrived at a different conclusion than you have. As opposed to just saying "Well, I think differently than you do about spiritual truths to the universe, therefore I'm smart and you're just stupid."

Speed Racer
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[happythoughts 0]

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Thoughts....

What is mysticisim? It's the act of trying to understand the "unknown." Beliefs of today are different from a hundred years ago and will be different at a hundred years in the future.
We, as creatures, try to understand, to apply logic, to have meaning... and sometimes there aren't answers.

That is why it is so important. Because people organize stuff into compartments that they understand.

A universe that has been here for an infinitely long time is hard to grasp. A universe created one morning by a benevolent dicator has a finite point.

It also means that if we follow the rules, then there is a system that you can work with. Like knowing the future because your horoscope tells you in advance.

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Why do some people die in a tragedy, but others might survive - luck?

(...paraphrased- Why do bad things happen to good people ?)

Statistics plus random luck.

If you live in the trouble spot of a city, you may get robbed regardless of your church attendance. Good luck? You are born wealthy and never see that side of town. Bad luck ? Statitistics of dying in a car wreck.

People just want a set of rules so that the system will work for them. "I'll pray regularly that I won't get mugged."

All the types of prayers are to get the omnipotent servant to do something. (If you control God, you can control your life).

It all boils down to fear. No system means fear and uncertainty.

Religion gives very simple answers to very complex questions. It is a psychological necessity for many.
- how did i get here?
- what is my purpose here?
- what will happen when i die?

All organisms endeavor to exist. Most species only get to avoid death for a while. We think about a plan for avoiding it altogether.

At some point, people who are not religious have thought about the consequence of having no gods.
Then you have to answer the questions yourself.

Surprisingly, the answer to the purpose is exactly what you are doing now. It's just that it will make perfect sense.

[happythoughts 0]

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I'm only asking if you can respect someone who, in pondering the universe, has arrived at a different conclusion than you have.

When people talk about respecting beliefs, they mean their own. Today, anyone worshipping Poseidon, wood sprites, or Thor is given medication. Just as telling the weather using cow horns is laughed at - by people who want their opinions respected. What is your value of a tealeaf-reading ? To an outsider, it is all the same.

However, for me it is an "Emperors Clothes" issue. If people sit back and look at their belief systems, they do get uncomfortable for a moment.

General conversation-
"Want to go to church with us?"
"No."
(then the phrase)
"...but our church is different"

No it isn't. That is the point.

It is uncomfortable for a religious person to ponder that.

[Zenister 0]

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I'm only asking if you can respect someone who, in pondering the universe, has arrived at a different conclusion than you have. As opposed to just saying "Well, I think differently than you do about spiritual truths to the universe, therefore I'm smart and you're just stupid."

only if their 'pondering' didnt stop when they found a belief system that was 'comfortable' for them...

the majority of believers, in any religion never really, seriously investigate the full spectrum of Mysticism, Spirituality, Religion etc..... they only seek until they find an answer that gives them a 'warm fuzzy feeling of belonging'

that isnt a true search for Truth or Enlightenment, but simply a placebo that those with herd mentalities to cling to when they tremble in the night...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kbordson 8]

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However, for me it is an "Emperors Clothes" issue. If people sit back and look at their belief systems, they do get uncomfortable for a moment.

Not all do. Personally being raised Roman Catholic (but not currently practicing), I've had many philosophical discussions with varied beliefs. I am not uncomfortable with examining my thoughts, because I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong. I find that considering other beliefs and trying to understand the why's behind their opinions is helpful in understanding the why's (or the lack of why's) in your thoughts.

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General conversation-
"Want to go to church with us?"
"No."
(then the phrase)
"...but our church is different"

No it isn't. That is the point.

It is uncomfortable for a religious person to ponder that.

A rather a blanket assumption. Maybe they were offering just so that you could better understand their perspective.

[JackC 0]

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I'm only asking if you can respect someone who, in pondering the universe, has arrived at a different conclusion than you have.

When people talk about respecting beliefs, they mean their own. Today, anyone worshipping Poseidon, wood sprites, or Thor is given medication. Just as telling the weather using cow horns is laughed at - by people who want their opinions respected. What is your value of a tealeaf-reading ? To an outsider, it is all the same.

However, for me it is an "Emperors Clothes" issue. If people sit back and look at their belief systems, they do get uncomfortable for a moment.

General conversation-
"Want to go to church with us?"
"No."
(then the phrase)
"...but our church is different"

No it isn't. That is the point.

It is uncomfortable for a religious person to ponder that.

Yup. In the words of H. L. Mencken - We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

Personally, I took a long hard look at various types of mysicism, clairvoyance and astrology in particular. I came to the conclusion that by far the best clairvoyants are the ones like James Randi and Derren Brown. Ie the ones that have perfected the art of faking it. My pet theory is that clairvoyants use the same techniques as Randi, they just don't relalise it.

Astrology on the other hand is a bit like working out the exact size of a house, figuring out exactly how much paint you need to paint it, then using that information to buy socks.

If there were anything to this mysicism lark, there would be a real measurable benefit for using it. Other than placebo effects, there isn't.

[quade 4]

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So, who's next ? What will be the next religion (or form of mysticism) to be cast to the dustbin ?

I vote for astrology and telling the weather with cow horns.

I think it depends heavily on what information is given and how the individual uses the information.

An argument could be made for some forms of "fortune telling" simply as a device to enable people to think about things in way they otherwise would not have considered.

On the other hand too much of fortune telling has been used thoughtout history to manipulate people into doing things they otherwise would not have.

If somebody wants to throw iching and simply consider what is being offered I have no problem with that. Anything that makes somebody consider all sides of an issue is probably a good thing.

However, when somebody uses a belief system specifically to bilk other people out of their hard earned silver, then they probably need to be flogged.

This includes virtually all belief systems from tea leaves to televangelists.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[AlexCrowley 0]

An award for "Crappest example of Mysticism ever used to justify a point of view" is winging its way towards you. Unfortunately the coming pagan festivities will no doubt interupt its arrival, inadvertantly causing its rerouting to Omaha Nebraska where it will be read by someone in the dead letter office and give them the final clue needed to tear a whole in the very fabric of reality.

The real irony here is that had this same gentleman read the washing instructions on the label of his pants he might have come to the same conclusion.

Now THATS mysticism!

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.