ChasingBlueSky 0 #1 December 8, 2005 http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-blog08.html WHAT WAS POSTED Edited excerpts from blog postings about Taft High teachers. Posted Nov. 3 "She'll see oh yes, there will be blood, well no that's just this damn pen that exploded, and no, I won't kill her ... yet ... however ... Ms. ------'s neck will be ... slit like a ...... chicken! Now...WHO DO I HAVE TO KILL BESIDES... MS. ------!! SHE'S SOO SHORT!!!!! Posted Nov. 23 "....Yes, Ms. ---, she [obscene act deleted], literally I mean what do you think she does in that secret little back room of hers'' Posted Tuesday "Wow, I'm an idiot. And I'm done self-pitying. It's time I took the blame. I cannot defend what I wrote. I want my future to stay intact and my past not to harm me.... I didn't know our Xanga's were being monitored. I should have expected it. It's not private like we'd like to think. I thought it ...was freedom of speech, but it's not. What I wrote was vulgar and slanderous." Three male students at Taft High School -- seventh- and eighth-graders in an Advanced Placement program -- were disciplined Wednesday after obscene and threatening remarks were posted about Taft staff on a Web log that reportedly had a teacher in tears when discovered this week. The issue has divided students and teachers at the Northwest Side school, with many students, even those who disagree with the nature of the remarks, defending the students' right to make them. "It's none of their business. Why are they monitoring online student journals in the first place?" demanded 16-year-old junior Fabiola Segovia. "You would think teachers and staff have better things to do, like making this school a better place. This school is crappy. I think they had no right to read it, much less suspend those students." Many teachers, however, said such hurtful actions should never have First Amendment protections. "They should definitely be suspended. I don't think this fits under freedom of speech," said English teacher Maha Jarad. "I think the issue also has to do with responsibility.... You want freedom of speech, you have to respect rules governing how to treat others and conduct yourself." 'The school is on solid ground' One Nov. 3 blog posting said of a teacher: "She'll see oh yes, there will be blood,'' and, "no, I won't kill her ... yet'' and her "neck will be ... slit like a ...... chicken!" Chicago Public Schools lawyers Wednesday approved disciplinary action against the students after a long review over whether outraged Taft administration officials were wading into First Amendment waters by seeking suspensions, sources said. "The school became aware of some disturbing and offensive remarks that these three students were making through blogs about several staff members at Taft. They met with the students and their parents this morning," CPS spokesman Mike Vaughn said. "The law department's determination is that the school is on solid ground with disciplining the students involved." CPS officials cited confidentiality issues in refusing to divulge the action taken. Taft students, however, including one of the three involved, said the 13-year-old and two 14-year-olds -- gifted students who attend seventh and eighth grade at the high school's Academic Center, were suspended, one for as long as 10 days. Taft, at 6545 W. Hurlbut in Edison Park, offers academically advanced students a six-year high-school program that begins in seventh grade. CPS officials handled a similar case differently last year. In March 2004, a 16-year-old white female student at Walter Payton College Prep, 1034 N. Wells, posted derogatory comments about gays and blacks on a Web log. In that case, CPS' top lawyers converged on the Gold Coast magnet school to explain to students that the junior was not being disciplined because she had a right to free speech. School officials had told angry black students that the most they could do was meet with the girl and her parents and discuss tolerance issues. "The comments weren't made in school. They may be opinions we don't like, but they're opinions," CPS general counsel Ruth Moscovitch told the Sun-Times. Teacher 'was very upset' Wednesday, Vaughn said the two incidents are different. "The Payton thing involved racially insensitive remarks not directed at specific people. The Taft incident involves specific remarks about people who were named in the blog -- offensive, disturbing, threatening comments. ... At least one of the teachers involved was very upset." Tuesday, one student posted an apology. But that didn't end the debate at Taft. "A blog is like your journal. You should be able to say whatever you want in it and not worry about getting in trouble, especially because it's done on your own time and not in school," said 16-year-old sophomore Cindy Black. But bilingual teacher Genaro Cueva disagreed. "I don't think that's right. Other schools hold kids accountable for what they do outside of school. Why shouldn't Chicago?" Most courts have held student bloggers accountable BY ABDON M. PALLASCH Legal Affairs Reporter Can schools punish students for actions they take off-campus, such as exercising First Amendment rights on the Internet? Yes, in many cases, the courts have ruled. Twenty years ago, a judge in Maine ruled that school officials had no right to punish a student who extended his middle finger to a teacher at a restaurant parking lot outside school hours. The court ruled it was beyond their jurisdiction," said David L. Hudson Jr., a Nashville law professor who researches student expression cases for the First Amendment Center. "Some argue that school officials go out of their jurisdiction [punishing students for Internet postings], that it's the online equivalent of flipping the teacher the bird." Columbine used as example But he said the majority of courts around the country, especially since the shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999, have held that school officials are well within their rights to discipline students for what they post off-campus on the Internet. In the 1969 "Tinker" decision holding that Iowa students had a right to wear black armbands to protest the Vietnam War, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that "school officials can regulate student expression if they can reasonably forecast that the expression would cause a substantial disruption or material interference with school activities or invade the rights of others." The high court also held in 1986 that school officials can curb student speech that is "vulgar, rude, or plainly offensive." Students have won cases against administrators for postings that criticize school policy. A federal court last month ruled that a New Jersey school district had no right to suspend an eighth-grader for running a Web site critical of the school. But expulsions of students who compile "hit lists" of classmates generally have been upheld. A junior at Jacobs High School in Algonquin was suspended last year for posting such a list on the Internet. Four students at the Illinois Math and Science Academy in Aurora were expelled for posting a song a teacher felt was threatening._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #2 December 8, 2005 I don't remember students' disdain for teachers being this bad back in my day. It was usually students dissing each other and getting into fights. It was a far worse offense to diss a teacher back then. You had to not only face disciplinary action at school, but also at home. Today, it seems kids don't fucking care... and it all starts with their parents not making sure the kids understood what the fuck respect means... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #3 December 8, 2005 You don't want it read by anyone? Don't put it on the internet. Simple. Want to make threats? Don't be surprised when someone calls you on it or comes knocking. It's amazing that these kids actually think that their ON-LINE journals are private when they're posted to sites for everyone to see.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #4 December 8, 2005 An attention whore is mad at people for getting attention? Stupid little fucker. Their "private" journal is about as private as me walking into city hall and saying that I want to kill the mayor. Last time I checked, free speech prolly wouldn't stop the security from beating the shit out of me on the spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #5 December 8, 2005 I opened this thinking I would be outraged at them being suspended. However after reading it, I have no pity...One is a death threat. You post on a public forum/blog, you are held accountable. If they had written it on a piece of paper, or said the same thing out loud they would have been suspended. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_owen_uk 0 #6 December 9, 2005 www=WORLD WIDE web That's not rocket science, it means it can be read world wide by anyone. They either need to learn to keep their mouths shut, or blog anonymously.__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #7 December 9, 2005 Quotewww=WORLD WIDE web That's not rocket science, it means it can be read world wide by anyone. They either need to learn to keep their mouths shut, or blog anonymously. Right. If nothing else, they should be punished for extreme stupidity.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 December 9, 2005 Quotethey should be punished for extreme stupidity. Let's stop reinforcing the stereotype of academic liberals, now. Shall we? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #9 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuotethey should be punished for extreme stupidity. Let's stop reinforcing the stereotype of academic liberals, now. Shall we? Engineering school - no liberals here.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotethey should be punished for extreme stupidity. Let's stop reinforcing the stereotype of academic liberals, now. Shall we? Engineering school - no liberals here. now who's wallowing in stereotypes? I mean, nerds can also be liberals, just not as sanitary as the conservative nerds ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #11 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethey should be punished for extreme stupidity. Let's stop reinforcing the stereotype of academic liberals, now. Shall we? Engineering school - no liberals here. now who's wallowing in stereotypes? I mean, nerds can also be liberals, just not as sanitary as the conservative nerds Liberal nerds can't afford the tuition.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotethey should be punished for extreme stupidity. Let's stop reinforcing the stereotype of academic liberals, now. Shall we? Engineering school - no liberals here. now who's wallowing in stereotypes? I mean, nerds can also be liberals, just not as sanitary as the conservative nerds Liberal nerds can't afford the tuition. that's ok, the government can pay for it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #13 December 9, 2005 Now this is the best laugh I have had in a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 December 9, 2005 QuoteNow this is the best laugh I have had in a while. I'm sorry to hear that. Try and get out a bit more. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildcard451 0 #15 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteNow this is the best laugh I have had in a while. I'm sorry to hear that. Try and get out a bit more. It's popping my head in this forum that makes me realize how much of a life I actually have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #16 December 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteNow this is the best laugh I have had in a while. I'm sorry to hear that. Try and get out a bit more. It's popping my head in this forum that makes me realize how much of a life I actually have. Great, now I'm depressed ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
