kallend 2,175 #1 December 5, 2005 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States is still unprepared for another inevitable terrorist attack after not doing enough to improve communications for emergency personnel and bolster security at nuclear plants, the heads of the former September 11 Commission said on Sunday. Former commission chairman Thomas Kean said preparing for another attack has not been a high enough priority for President George W. Bush and Congress. "A lot of the things we need to do really to prevent another 9/11 just simply aren't being done by the president or by the Congress," Kean, the former Republican governor of New Jersey, said on NBC's "Meet the Press."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #2 December 5, 2005 I watched the show. It was chilling. Basically, none of the recommendations from the 9/11 commission have been implemented. We're no more prepared today then we were 9/10/2001. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #3 December 5, 2005 QuoteI watched the show. It was chilling. Basically, none of the recommendations from the 9/11 commission have been implemented. We're no more prepared today then we were 9/10/2001. Hey, it looks like we can take fingernail files on commercial flights again, though, beginning 12/22/02. www.tsa.gov/public/ I wonder why a fingernail file is a security risk today or next week, but will not be after 12/22. Has OBL sworn to stop using fingernail files as weapons starting 12/22, or something like that? "It's the government, it doesn't have to make sense"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #4 December 5, 2005 I think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #5 December 5, 2005 QuoteI think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way May I sit next to you?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #6 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way May I sit next to you? After eating airline food? ewwwww...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #7 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way May I sit next to you? After eating airline food? ewwwww...... What "food" is that? All I've had recently on commercial flights is a bag of pretzels. I give away better food on my plane.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #8 December 5, 2005 QuoteWe're no more prepared today then we were 9/10/2001. I dunno, terrorist attacks on U.S. soil occurred with regularity during the Clinton Administration but the frequency of these attacks has declined significantly since 9/11/2001. What is causing this pattern, assuming you choose not to attribute it to the fact that we’ve better equipped our country to defend against terrorist attacks after 9/11/2001? I’m open to being convinced the terrorists are deliberately exercising patience (thereby yielding military and political initiative for reasons that defy convention) or, say, that they have abandoned trying to get us due to their deep and abiding respect for human life. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #9 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way May I sit next to you? After eating airline food? ewwwww...... What "food" is that? All I've had recently on commercial flights is a bag of pretzels. I give away better food on my plane. Apparently you haven't been on any International flights in First Class. What do you serve on KallendAir? I'm guessing beer and hotdogs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #10 December 5, 2005 Quoteterrorist attacks on U.S. soil occurred with regularity during the Clinton Administration Huh? I'm not saying nothing has been done. But the things that were recommended to prevent against another attack on the scale of 9/11 have not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #11 December 5, 2005 QuoteHuh? Hastily, Clinton Administration (1993-2001): 1993 World Trade Center bombing (6 killed, 1,000 injured) 1994 Jewish students attacked by terrorist on Brooklyn Bridge (1 dead) 1995 Oklahoma City bombing (168 dead) 1996 Olympics/Atlanta bombing (1 dead, 100 injured) 1997 Atlanta gay nightclub & abortion clinic bombings 1998 Bombing of the U.S. embassies in Africa/sovereign U.S. soil (224 killed, 5,000 injured) 1999 Animal Liberation Front attacks on U.S. research facilities 2000 Bombing of the USS Cole/sovereign U.S. soil (17 killed, 39 injured) QuoteI'm not saying nothing has been done. But the things that were recommended to prevent against another attack on the scale of 9/11 have not. Know what a camel is? It’s a horse designed by committee. Arguably the current Administration has decided to forego the camel approach and, so far, their horse appears to be “winning” the contest. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #12 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteterrorist attacks on U.S. soil occurred with regularity during the Clinton Administration Huh? I'm not saying nothing has been done. But the things that were recommended to prevent against another attack on the scale of 9/11 have not. One of the problems I see with this is that the steps necessary for preventing another terrorist attack are the very steps that strike against our freedoms. Let's look, for example, at the Patriot Act. If my #1 priority is to gather intelligence and information in an attempt to prevent attacks, I'll implement some laws that strip away and erode at basic freedoms that we have long had. I'm one of those objectors to the Patriot Act. I object to all kinds of things that limit my freedoms, privileges and immunities that come with my citizenship. "Give me liberty or give me death" is one of those things I look at with fondness. So, we can keep more people alive, but freedom pays a big price in it. Now, preparation for response to these attacks - that is something I can sink my teeth into. Right now, I'm wait until the report card is issued to see what I agree with. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #13 December 5, 2005 There are a lot of things that have nothing to do with the Patriot Act or compromising rights that were recommended and were not done. - No xray machines for commercial cargo shipped on passenger planes. - No measures to secure shipping ports - No change in status of unprotected borders. - No unified communication system - No clear identification of chains of command between different agencies responding to the same threat. Those are just the ones off the top of my head that they covered on the program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #14 December 5, 2005 QuoteThere are a lot of things that have nothing to do with the Patriot Act or compromising rights that were recommended and were not done. - No xray machines for commercial cargo shipped on passenger planes. - No measures to secure shipping ports - No change in status of unprotected borders. - No unified communication system - No clear identification of chains of command between different agencies responding to the same threat. Those are just the ones off the top of my head that they covered on the program. Gee - next thing you know they'll be allowing cuticle scissors on planes!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #15 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way May I sit next to you? After eating airline food? ewwwww...... What "food" is that? All I've had recently on commercial flights is a bag of pretzels. I give away better food on my plane. Apparently you haven't been on any International flights in First Class. What do you serve on KallendAir? I'm guessing beer and hotdogs. Nope. Granola bars, trail mix, Milky Way bars and Gatorade are my staples. Had a passenger once who drank a flask of coffee, then announced that he needed to pee when we were somewhere over the middle of the desert about 150 miles from the nearest airport. We had a nearly empty spray bottle of "409" in the back, so he filled that up.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #16 December 5, 2005 QuoteThere are a lot of things that have nothing to do with the Patriot Act or compromising rights that were recommended and were not done. - No xray machines for commercial cargo shipped on passenger planes. - No measures to secure shipping ports - No change in status of unprotected borders Help me understand your position by working with me through a terrorism scenario. Here in Chicago, as elsewhere, we have long trains of tanker cars which routinely transport volatile toxic liquids that can gasify into huge poisonous clouds and spread out given the right conditions. Often these transit near our downtown commercial districts. How would you prevent a determined cadre of terrorists from prepositioning an Oklahoma City-type truck bomb under a railroad overpass, we have a lot of them, hijacking a tank car train that is carrying volatile hazardous liquids, emplacing the tank cars on the overpass and then detonating the truck bomb to release a flood of toxic gas which could disperse throughout the office canyons of Chicago perhaps murdering tens of thousands? Do you armor U.S. train cabs, arm the engineers, monitor key railroad crossings or provide gas masks and hazmat suits to those at risk? Who will pay and how will this affect the economy? What about safeguarding all the other potential vulnerabilities in this country and how do you prioritize. Shouldn’t we use our limited available funds to equip our baby-carrying airliners so they can decoy shoulder-fired missiles instead? Why blame the Administration for charting its own course when it’s simply impossible to defend all of our vulnerabilities, as many have been recommending, not that more shouldn’t be done, I agree with your other suggestions for example. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #17 December 5, 2005 The first thing I would do is prioritize. I would do so by forming a commission. Maybe call it the 9/11 commission. I would charge them with the task of prioritizing our vulnerabilities and how we can close the holes. I would then implement their recommendations. Seems to me, that's all been done but the last part. I'm not an anti-terrorism expert and I haven't devoted a couple years to getting to the bottom of your questions. These guys have, but are being ignored. I think that's a problem. And when did I blame the administration for this? They are partially to blame for not pushing the issue and pushing other priorities instead. But congress needs to get off their asses and start working on some of this stuff as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #18 December 5, 2005 >How would you prevent . . . . Well, nothing you can do can prevent it 100%. Things that will help prevent that are: -Better communications. A hijacked hazmat train should show up instantly as a threat across several agencies, and HLS should be able to see the threat. -Improved chains of command. HLS should have access to railroad police, local police, military assets in the area etc rapidly. -Improved hazardous cargo tracking. If, as soon as the train is re-routed or its schedule changes, a dispatcher is alerted, the time terrorists have to operate is greatly reduced. (Note that even today this could be detected via the normal method of tracking a train's progress, but we can improve on that with on-train tracking devices.) >Why blame the Administration for charting its own course when it’s > simply impossible to defend all of our vulnerabilities, as many have > been recommending, not that more shouldn’t be done, I agree with > your other suggestions for example. It is impossible to defend against all potential attacks. It is possible to improve our odds of detecting and stopping such attacks. I believe it is in our best interests to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #19 December 5, 2005 See above my camel metaphor. The decision-making process is irretrievably political, even the “experts” have their agendas/incentives/lobbyists, and, consequently, I believe that most of the vast sums of taxpayer money that would be committed to implement any centrally-directed recommendations would be squandered since the projects aren’t necessarily calculated to prevent future attacks but instead to serve other interests. As I said before, I agree that more needs to be done even though I believe that undisclosed steps have been taken to attack the problem at its roots, which is where we need to focus. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #20 December 5, 2005 I agree with you. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #21 December 5, 2005 Quote See above my camel metaphor. The decision-making process is irretrievably political, even the “experts” have their agendas/incentives/lobbyists, and, consequently, I believe that most of the vast sums of taxpayer money that would be committed to implement any centrally-directed recommendations would be squandered since the projects aren’t necessarily calculated to prevent future attacks but instead to serve other interests. As I said before, I agree that more needs to be done even though I believe that undisclosed steps have been taken to attack the problem at its roots, which is where we need to focus. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! The following is premised on the assumption that finite resources are available to protect against attack (this may be unreasonable, given our propensity to borrow and borrow and borrow.... without end). Wasting resources on obviously cosmetic measures simply reduces the resources available to deal with real threats.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #22 December 5, 2005 Let's take a look at terrorism and efficacy. Rarely is there going to be seen a terrorist attack on such large scale at 9/11. instead, most terrorist activity that is seen relies on small things. Look at Israel, Spain and London. There were bombings aplenty on mass transit systems. Mass transit is designed to move things quickly and efficiently. It's damned near impossible to keep bombers off of things like that. Can you treat every bus station or train station like an airline terminal? At that point it becomes ineffiecient and slow. So, people just move about on and off of busses and trains. By the millions. In Iraq, the big problem is with improvised roadside bombs. How are you going to prevent that? How are you going to prevent the terrorist/vandal from placing a device on train tracks to derail the coming train that holds tanker cars full of a toxic substance? Or placing roadside bombs? Or bombing buses? Or merely dropping some sodium cyanide into the air intakes of a downtown office building? The US is still at risk. We've been and risk. We will be at risk. The best thing we can do, in my very humble opinion, is to plan for management of what to do when such attacks occur. All reports seem to list the next terrorist attack as "inevitable." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sen.Blutarsky 0 #23 December 5, 2005 QuoteThe following is premised on the assumption that finite resources are available to protect against attack (this may be unreasonable, given our propensity to borrow and borrow and borrow.... without end). I suspected this discussion might devolve to tax and spend, whether deferred or otherwise. I note that my esteemed colleague Ted Kennedy advocates this approach at every opportunity, while my own platform is that we who serve in government will soon be required to make drastic cuts in federal spending to be phased over the next several generations. QuoteWasting resources on obviously cosmetic measures simply reduces the resources available to deal with real threats. One inference from the resource efficiency perspective is that our political leadership ought to create a honeypot far away from America as a means to draw terrorists onto a battleground where our professional warriors can fix and destroy them instead of attempting to defend America’s myriad point targets directly. I’ll have my staff package your suggestion into a memo for Dick Cheney with full attribution, Ming sir. Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #24 December 5, 2005 >while my own platform is that we who serve in government will soon >be required to make drastic cuts in federal spending to be phased > over the next several generations. Why would that be required? It would be wise, surely. But politicians do what gets them re-elected, not what is wise. >One inference from the resource efficiency perspective is that our > political leadership ought to create a honeypot far away from > America as a means to draw terrorists onto a battleground . . . It is my personal feeling that our soldiers should not be used as bullet sponges. We can create wars and feed soldiers into their maw indefinitely; this decimates our military, causes resentment against the US, and (better than anything else we can do) will cause a future of constant terrorism. Terrorism is already up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #25 December 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI think we should all have to check in everything... and then ride the plane nekkid.. cant hide weapons that way May I sit next to you? After eating airline food? ewwwww...... What "food" is that? All I've had recently on commercial flights is a bag of pretzels. I give away better food on my plane. you'd get better food if you flew first class -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
