Erroll 80 #1 November 30, 2005 Benny Hinn is about to arrive in South Africa. One of our top investigative journalism TV programs, Carte Blanche , broadcast an exposé on Hinn and his 'ministries' and I was appalled to see how the man is allowed to rip off the public so blatantly. Of course, I was equally appalled at how gullible the public is! Have you experienced one of his (or any other evangelist's con-artist's) performances? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #2 November 30, 2005 Who do I make the check out to and how much? Guide me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #3 November 30, 2005 He is no different form any organized church....just believe what I tell you to and keep giving me money..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #4 December 1, 2005 QuoteHe is no different form any organized church....just believe what I tell you to and keep giving me money..... Your regular 'organised' church doesn't prey on the sick. Your regular 'organised' church's ministers or pastors are not multi-millionaires, flying around in jets and living in mansions, all paid for by their 'victims' whom these con-artists have fleeced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #5 December 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe is no different form any organized church....just believe what I tell you to and keep giving me money..... Your regular 'organised' church doesn't prey on the sick. Your regular 'organised' church's ministers or pastors are not multi-millionaires, flying around in jets and living in mansions, all paid for by their 'victims' whom these con-artists have fleeced. Christianity is increasing in numbers pretty much only in thirld world countries, primarily due to the catholic church turning to south america, china, southeast asia and especially africa to pan for gold among the sick, the illiterate, the poor and the desperate. South America has been proclaimed the savior of the catholic church as the number of catholics and more importantly donations in the US continue to decline. The only other significant increase in numbers of christians is with the more fundamentalist, dogmatic churches in the US recruiting dirt poor, uneducated americans and fleecing what little money they do have. Seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 December 1, 2005 QuoteChristianity is increasing in numbers pretty much only in thirld world countries, primarily due to the catholic church turning to south america, china, southeast asia and especially africa to pan for gold among the sick, the illiterate, the poor and the desperate. So do you believe there is ANY good intentioned priests/bishops/cardinals/deacons/pastors/nuns in the world? Or all they all just shysters on the take? Apparently, they aren't people or individuals, just mindless cogs in a machine. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #7 December 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe is no different form any organized church....just believe what I tell you to and keep giving me money..... Your regular 'organised' church doesn't prey on the sick. Your regular 'organised' church's ministers or pastors are not multi-millionaires, flying around in jets and living in mansions, all paid for by their 'victims' whom these con-artists have fleeced. Christianity is increasing in numbers pretty much only in thirld world countries, primarily due to the catholic church turning to south america, china, southeast asia and especially africa to pan for gold among the sick, the illiterate, the poor and the desperate. South America has been proclaimed the savior of the catholic church as the number of catholics and more importantly donations in the US continue to decline. The only other significant increase in numbers of christians is with the more fundamentalist, dogmatic churches in the US recruiting dirt poor, uneducated americans and fleecing what little money they do have. Seems the more things change, the more they stay the same. you think you know... but you have no idea. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,566 #8 December 1, 2005 QuoteSo do you believe there is ANY good intentioned priests/bishops/cardinals/deacons/pastors/nuns in the world? Or all they all just shysters on the take? Without passing judgement (for once) I will just say that the presence of good people within an organisation does not prevent it from harming people, just as the presence of bad people within an organisation does not prevent it from serving a good purpose. Jen was commenting on the actions and motives of the organisation as a whole, not every one within it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 December 1, 2005 QuoteJen was commenting on the actions and motives of the organisation as a whole, not every one within it. then the disclaimer applies as all power-capable organizations will trend to 'generalized' corruption and singling out a single one is pointless - we're all cynical about large organinzations in general this would only apply then if an organization purposely TRAINS all incoming members to be KNOWINGLY deceitful. Not even the DFL or GOP does that yet. And the bigger an org is, the harder that goal would be to attain. I doubt an org could do it over a very small size (like in the tens) and then it would be about the individuals, not the org. individuals take actions and do things ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,566 #10 December 1, 2005 Quotethen the disclaimer applies as all power-capable organizations will trend to 'generalized' corruption and singling out a single one is pointless - we're all cynical about large organinzations in general A distinction could be made in the professed purposes of an organisation. For instance, everyone knowws that Haliburton is an evil money grubbing political influence abusing den of iniquity, but thats ok because they are a multinational company. Its what they're supposed to do. With an organisation like the catholic church then its different. Hoarding huge amounts of money isn't what they're supposed to do. Taking and then redistributing money to help their followers is their purpose. If thats not what they're doing then something is wrong. Of course that doesn't immediately reflect badly on the priests in the front line if they believe that the money they take is being distributed fairly when its really not. Hypothetically.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 December 1, 2005 So it's ok as long as total lack of morality is included in and orgs mission statement? I doubt there is a mission statement out there in any company. Even (sigh) Halliburton. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,566 #12 December 1, 2005 QuoteSo it's ok as long as total lack of morality is included in and orgs mission statement? I doubt there is a mission statement out there in any company. Even (sigh) Halliburton. At least it would mean they weren't hypocrites. What I was meaning though is that for large companies their responsibility is to make money for shareholders and within legal limits they can do whatever they please to amass that money. The loyalty for the church should be towards its followers and it should not make itself richer and richer while claiming to serve the people. It would still be legal, but it would be duplicitous and wrong and would not require all the ground level 'employees' to be in on the scam. I think that was the point we were talking about. I've confused myself, maybe I should have included more hypothetical illustrations. So imagine a hedgehog trying to cross a road, right....Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #13 December 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteJen was commenting on the actions and motives of the organisation as a whole, not every one within it. then the disclaimer applies as all power-capable organizations will trend to 'generalized' corruption and singling out a single one is pointless - we're all cynical about large organinzations in general this would only apply then if an organization purposely TRAINS all incoming members to be KNOWINGLY deceitful. Not even the DFL or GOP does that yet. And the bigger an org is, the harder that goal would be to attain. I doubt an org could do it over a very small size (like in the tens) and then it would be about the individuals, not the org. individuals take actions and do things Hmmm, OK. There are undoubetly good people involved who will do good work but there is no doubt that they are in the third world countries to gather the gold at the order of the church which has been operating in the red for several years as traditional sources of income continue to decline. South America with it strong familial/catholic history is viewed as the financial savior of the church. After all, half the world's one billion Roman Catholics live in Latin America alone, and the church is seeing explosive growth in Africa and Asia. The church takes the money but you have to wonder why, if most of the world's Roman Catholics live in the developing world, why has every pope been European? Are the workers TRAINED to be deceitful? Nope, thats for car salespeople. The church has much better and more cost effective techniques, they mind fuck them from birth. They grow the true believers and use them ...cheaply. That's why the church is by far the richest (tax free!!) organization in the world. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,74563,00.html http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=23424 http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=30675 http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/pope/2002230105_thirdworldpope04.html----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 December 1, 2005 Quote That's why the church is by far the richest (tax free!!) organization in the world. Still pretty harsh, but here is something I can get on board with you. Churches shouldn't be tax free. That's goofy. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,114 #15 December 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteHe is no different form any organized church....just believe what I tell you to and keep giving me money..... Your regular 'organised' church doesn't prey on the sick. Your regular 'organised' church's ministers or pastors are not multi-millionaires, flying around in jets and living in mansions, all paid for by their 'victims' whom these con-artists have fleeced. Have you seen the Vatican? The church leaders certainly have some fancy digs there, and I don't think the pope and cardinals have too much trouble flying around.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charmsdroppop 0 #16 December 2, 2005 Can I say DUHHH......yeah and I was put thru catholic school and still don't buy it. The party's in hell so sin on....life's too short to beg for forgiveness....who's got time for confession EVERYDAY......besides we all get forgiven anyway according to "the lord".....I'll take my chances.is it dark yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #17 December 2, 2005 Quote So imagine a hedgehog trying to cross a road, right.... what the fuck does ron jeremy have to do with this? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #18 December 2, 2005 Quotewhat the fuck does ron jeremy have to do with this? Like Benny Hinn, he screws a whole bunch of people? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #19 December 2, 2005 what a load of crap this whole thread is. If someone tried to disparage Islam this way, by saying all the Muslims are all like Osama bin Laden or Zarqawi, people would be on them like flies with claims of racism, religious bigotry, etc. But you do the same thing to a Christian church, all of a sudden it's a "PC" sort of bigotry. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #20 December 2, 2005 Quotewhat a load of crap this whole thread is. That is most likely because, as usual, it took about four posts to get completely away from the original topic, which was a request for commentary on so-called evangelists exploiting the sick and fleecing a gullible public. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 December 2, 2005 Quote all of a sudden it's a "PC" sort of bigotry. that's a nice term "PC approved bigotry" "PC encouraged bigotry" "PC accepted bigotry" "PC bigotry standards" "PC validated bigotry" "PC advocated bigotry" "approved bigotry"(pc) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #22 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteHe is no different form any organized church....just believe what I tell you to and keep giving me money..... Your regular 'organised' church doesn't prey on the sick. Your regular 'organised' church's ministers or pastors are not multi-millionaires, flying around in jets and living in mansions, all paid for by their 'victims' whom these con-artists have fleeced. Have you seen the Vatican? The church leaders certainly have some fancy digs there, and I don't think the pope and cardinals have too much trouble flying around. it's part of the office of being in the hierarchy of the church. see my earlier post about that big fancy white house on pennsylvania avenue. did it belong to clinton? no (didn't stop him and hillary and their staff from stealing and vandalizing it though before they left, but that's another thread entirely). as for the vatican, it is the center, the capitol, so to speak of a one of the worlds largest religions. the residences and offices are befitting the level of office the associated cardinals hold. and they don't belong to the person holding the office. as for flying around, you're speaking out your ass on this one... except for the pope, most of the time members of the hierarchy fly on regular airlines. as for the pope, as a major head of state (who regularly gets death threats and even assassination attempts, remember?) it's fitting that he have private transportation. The vatican has a helicopter, but it has to charter a plane to transport the Holy Father. Oh, but that's too posh for you... too hypocritical... too... too... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias 0 #23 December 2, 2005 Ok, here is the other side of the coin. Not as fun to debate....but true non the less. The topic always goes into the negative issues revolving "organized" religion. I'm not a Catholic or anything else for that matter. I am a Christian. Lets talk about the good that Christian charities and the donors that support them actually do. I researched a bit, and could not find the Atheist or Agnostic charity site. Maybe you guys can assist CHARITY! The true example of a Chritstian doing what he has learned from this religion. The majority of these charities operate by people donating thier time. Admin costs are kept a low as possible in MOST cases. Majority are powered by Volunteers - FOR FREE - TO HELP THOSE WHO NEED IT - Bad bad Christians! Give me a break. Get over it already! http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.cause&cgid=6&Submit.x=20&Submit.y=9 All those Christinn donors - what idots for helping - Brainwashed fools I guess - add me to that list! I wonder how much the anti-religion folks here donate or do for the human community around them. Just curious. Carpe Diem Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
