Vatican renews ban on gay priests

[shropshire 0]

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The Vatican has published long-awaited guidelines which reaffirm that active homosexuals and "supporters of gay culture" may not become priests.
But it treats homosexuality as a "tendency", not an orientation, and says those who have overcome it can begin training to take holy orders.

..... clicky

Why does the Catholic church has such a problem with homosexuality?...... Discuss (again?)....

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[artistcalledian 0]

because god created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve

the filthy benders

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[Scoop 0]

Why dont I believe that you believe in God

[shropshire 0]

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[sinker 0]

*sigh* here we go again...

it's very simple... in the eyes of the catholic church, sex is for babies and bonding. gay sex can't give you either, so sayeth the church. genital to anus doesn't give union, genital to genital does. you gotta plug the cord into the outlet to get the juice, n'est-ce pas? plug to plug, no juice. outlet to outlet, no juice.

from the catechism of the catholic church...

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[GTAVercetti 0]

I refer you here. All twleve pages of it:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1843850;search_string=catholic%20church%20homosexuality;#1843850

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,120]

>tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."

The bible also explicitly condoned slavery and ownership of women. The church broke with the bible over that. Heck, until very recently, the DSM called homosexuality a disease. That changed too.

It's taken the church 2000 years to get to the point where priests say mass in the language of the parishioners, where they admit that evolution is a valid theory, and that slavery is sorta bad. Give them time; they will come around on this too.

[shropshire 0]

<<*sigh* here we go again...>> - I know, I know... that's why I wrote again too .... but it's Topical because the Vatican published the guidelines today.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

As above... The topic was reopened due to todays Vatican publication... that's all.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[sinker 0]

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>tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."

The bible also explicitly condoned slavery and ownership of women. The church broke with the bible over that. Heck, until very recently, the DSM called homosexuality a disease. That changed too.

It's taken the church 2000 years to get to the point where priests say mass in the language of the parishioners, where they admit that evolution is a valid theory, and that slavery is sorta bad. Give them time; they will come around on this too.

the church will not change about this bill, just like it didn't change on artificial birth control in the late 60's like everyone predicted. it ain't gonna happen.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 3,120]

>just like it didn't change on artificial birth control in the late 60's
>like everyone predicted. it ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure the same things were said about the Latin mass, and birth control (the church _does_ allow some forms) the prosecution of witches and the geocentric model of the earth. Anything that doesn't change dies, and the catholic church is smarter than that.

[sinker 0]

interesting studies on DSM and homosexuality etc...

all major counseling licensing bodies (American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, others for Licensed Clinical Social Workers, etc) all have as part of their code of ethics or oath that the licensee will NOT try in therapy to change a patient's sexual orientation, even if the patient is not happy being homosexual.

however... if therapists belonging to these licensing bodies are presented with two identical case studies, the only difference being that one is hetero, the other homo, the vast majority of therapists --who claim to adhere to the beliefs/ideals/ethics/etc. of the licensing bodies-- diagnose the homosexual as more problems, more pathology, more severe diagnoses, would prescribe more serious treatments, etc.

interesting.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[shropshire 0]

I can see no problem that the Catholic church ordains that it's priests are celibate (not practicing either willy to pussy or willy to bum sex as you hint).... but this document suggest that these men cannt even present deep-seated homosexual tendencies. People have no control with whom they fall in love.....

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 3,120]

>diagnose the homosexual as more problems, more pathology, more
>severe diagnoses, would prescribe more serious treatments, etc.

No suprise there. A lone chinese immigrant in a predominantly white town will often have the same issues, especially if he's attacked often due to his race. He will generally be vulnerable to more pathologies because he is under more stress.

[sinker 0]

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>just like it didn't change on artificial birth control in the late 60's
>like everyone predicted. it ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure the same things were said about the Latin mass, and birth control (the church _does_ allow some forms) the prosecution of witches and the geocentric model of the earth. Anything that doesn't change dies, and the catholic church is smarter than that.

the particular language the mass is said in is not a change in doctrine.

the church does not allow any form of artificial birth control.

admitting the earth is round and not the center of the universe changes nothing regarding faith and morals.

god does not change and he is not dead.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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>diagnose the homosexual as more problems, more pathology, more
>severe diagnoses, would prescribe more serious treatments, etc.

No suprise there. A lone chinese immigrant in a predominantly white town will often have the same issues, especially if he's attacked often due to his race. He will generally be vulnerable to more pathologies because he is under more stress.

you missed the point... in the case studies -- they were WRITTEN case studies, not actual people, ever single word was the same EXCEPT the word "homosexual" and "heterosexual." The presenting problem was something completely unlrelated to relationships, sex, etc. Homosexuals were still rated as more sick.

I think it's too much of a stretch to say that just b/c homosexuality was removed from DSM (by gestapo tactics, NOT scientific research, which YOU see as a good thing ), doesn't ipso facto mean that yay, it's been accepted as normal, and yay, the medical / psychiatric / counseling communities state categorically that homosexuality is a valid, licit, healthy lifestyle.

As badly as you want to believe that, it just ain't so...

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 3,120]

>you missed the point... in the case studies -- they were WRITTEN
> case studies, not actual people, ever single word was the same
> EXCEPT the word "homosexual" and "heterosexual."

Uh, right - and most psychiatric professionals know that homosexuals are often attacked for their sexual orientation. It's like a doctor telling a steelworker to use earplugs at work, but not telling a high school teacher the same thing. He makes assumptions about what their environments are like.

But if there _were_ a town/society/country where 95% of the people were gay, then the heterosexuals would exhibit the same sorts of pathologies.

>I think it's too much of a stretch to say that just b/c homosexuality
>was removed from DSM (by gestapo tactics, NOT scientific research,
>which YOU see as a good thing )

So? Schools were desegregated quite literally by gestapo tactics, without any research saying that blacks were smart enough to 'compete' with whites. Do you see desegregation as a bad thing?

It is foolish to claim that you must prove that blacks are smart enough to be desegregated or gays are normal enough to not be diseased. The burden of proof is on the person who prejudges.

[SudsyFist 0]

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People have no control with whom they fall in love.....

Bullshit. That is a royal copout.

And I'm not referring to sexual preference; I'm referring to your statement verbatim.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The Vatican has published long-awaited guidelines which reaffirm that active homosexuals and "supporters of gay culture" may not become priests.

Wow, that ban in the past has really stopped a lot of gay pedophiles from becoming priests...thank God the Roman Catholic church has never had any problems with priests playing with little boys...

They are completely and utterly laughable.....all they care about is money and power...sadly enough they rely on human suffering to get both...

[sinker 0]

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I can see no problem that the Catholic church ordains that it's priests are celibate (not practicing either willy to pussy or willy to bum sex as you hint).... but this document suggest that these men cannt even present deep-seated homosexual tendencies. People have no control with whom they fall in love.....

why can't the church exclude whom it wishes? what do you care?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 3,120]

>admitting the earth is round and not the center of the universe
>changes nothing regarding faith and morals.

Right, because they decided that the parts of the bible that DEFINE the earth as flat are not to be taken literally. Someday they will decide the same thing about gays.

Face it, the church keeps changing. It has changed a lot (which is a good thing!) and will change in the future. And a future version of you will state quite emphatically that the change from the church's anti-gay stance had absolutely nothing to do with faith or doctrine, and had everything to do with following the central message of the new testament. But allowing AI's to worship? Now, the church will never, ever ever accept that, and that's final!

[sinker 0]

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Quote

The Vatican has published long-awaited guidelines which reaffirm that active homosexuals and "supporters of gay culture" may not become priests.

Wow, that ban in the past has really stopped a lot of gay pedophiles from becoming priests...thank God the Roman Catholic church has never had any problems with priests playing with little boys...

They are completely and utterly laughable.....all they care about is money and power...sadly enough they rely on human suffering to get both...

get your head out of the fucking sand. that ban is, in part, in direct response to the priest sex scandal.

there are pedophile priests. they deserve severe punishment, as do those in the hierarchy who colluded to keep it quite.

then they are homosexual priests. they need to be celibate and teach the church teachings or get the fuck out.

it is ignorant to call someone a "gay pedophile." the "orientation" of a pedophile isn't to a specific gender, it is to an age. and a good bit of the scandal of recent years, which the media did not seperate out, was priests who took advantage of post-pubescent boys, which ISN'T pedophilia. Pedophiles aren't attracted to post-pubescent children. those cases are more of homosexual orientated priests abusing their authority.

these priests, like the pedophile, should receive no mercy.

as for "all they want are money and power"... THAT is what is laughable... why it is true in some cases, your blanket accusation is so full of shit that it's easily dismissed. How many priests do you know? Do you know their salaries? Know their general living conditions? Know of their attachments in their souls to material things?

I didn't think so.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[shropshire 0]

I dont care ... pe se... But I am interested (is that allowed?).

I supose that the Catholic church (as opposed to The Church!) can employ who ever they want, so long as it does not break local employment laws and as far as I can tell (in the U.K) it's illegal to discriminate on grounds of sexuality. That may also be true in other countries......

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[sinker 0]

Quote

I dont care ... pe se... But I am interested (is that allowed?).

I supose that the Catholic church (as opposed to The Church!) can employ who ever they want, so long as it does not break local employment laws and as far as I can tell (in the U.K) it's illegal to discriminate on grounds of sexuality. That may also be true in other countries......

the catholic church is often referred to as "the church"... get over it... it's like referring to mankind as man instead of man/woman.

the church/priest relationship is not one of employer/employee. discrimination rules do not apply.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[shropshire 0]

How is my statement Bullshit? As far as I can tell falling in love in NOT conscious action but a sub-conscious emotional one.... You can suppress the physical acts but not the nature of them.....

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(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome