SkyDekker 1,465 #51 November 30, 2005 QuoteStay focused man.... You can do it I thought we were talking about flags...interestingly enough, looks like you are quite willing to post about other things in this particular thread.... Other than maybe a question that confuses you a bit too much? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #52 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteStay focused man.... You can do it I thought we were talking about flags...interestingly enough, looks like you are quite willing to post about other things in this particular thread.... Other than maybe a question that confuses you a bit too much? You're right man. Maybe I'm just confused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,113 #53 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuote"i would, probably the Irish LOL"------------------ Them there is fighting words boy . Reading a book(I'm Irish) about 1800-1900 Ireland. Makes me wanna go kill some Englishmen Can't we come to some sort of reasonable compromise here? Surely the sole reason for the continued existence of The Welsh is for The English & The Irish to lash out at each other without actually damaging anything useful or valuable! Mike. Edited to add: Unless someone... ANYONE... can think of any practical use for The Welsh? The Welsh are indeed useful - as examples of the terrible consequences of singing far too loud, far too often, and flat.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #54 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotedon't read too much into it, its just a bit of cloth That's the sort of statement I'd expect from someone who's never made personal sacrifice in it's defense. It's more than "just a bit of cloth." It "represents" MUCH more than that. OK, I'll bite: It's just a bit of cloth. I'll second it.. unless you are burning MY flag.. i couldnt care less what you do with your bit of colored cloth.... you cant harm a symbol by burning it...destroying a Flag, the actual physical bit... DOES NOTHING to the Symbol... in fact in the case of the US Flag.. the fact that our laws are specifically designed to allow Freedom of expression..by burning a US Flag and exercising your constitutionally protected right to do so, you are actually strengthening and supporting the Symbol and the Ideal it represents...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #55 November 30, 2005 Quote..by burning a US Flag and exercising your constitutionally protected right to do so, you are actually strengthening and supporting the Symbol and the Ideal it represents... naw, you're just burning your cloth and proving only negative things about yourself - much like a two year old having a tantrum. I don't think you're strengthening the country (or hurting it for that matter) itself in any way. DO something, impotent gestures are for children. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #56 November 30, 2005 QuoteIsn't Catherine Zeta Jones Welsh? She's a decent export. I think any country with her in it would rather export her.. So in that case I'd agree. (she was temporarily hot for a couple movies - very hot. But not anymore and she's a bad actress) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #57 November 30, 2005 Reminds me of a Middle Eastern protester burning the American flag, only to set himself on fire as well. Suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns to over 40% of his body not to mention his face. I think if he had it to do over again, he would choose someone else, perform the stupid act. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #58 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteIsn't Catherine Zeta Jones Welsh? She's a decent export. I think any country with her in it would rather export her.. So in that case I'd agree. (she was temporarily hot for a couple movies - very hot. But not anymore and she's a bad actress) Are you kidding? Why would anyone want to export her? She's famous, glamourous, beautiful, and proud to be Welsh. She's also still hot, and while not a great actress, she's definitely not bad. What's your beef with her? She works her ass off. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #59 November 30, 2005 Quote***Ty'll tyn i pob saeson![Wink] Cymru Am Byth![Smile] Y DDraig Goch ddyry Gychwyn![Cool] -------- So you're saying all Welsh people have busted keyboards?? Actually No! The keyboards are all fine. It's just the common keyboard problems that beset any inbred community: Problems like an unusual number of excessively webbed fingers, or a total lack of intelligence... The usual stuff. If you want a real laugh, ask the Welsh about their parliament! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #60 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuotedon't read too much into it, its just a bit of cloth That's the sort of statement I'd expect from someone who's never made personal sacrifice in it's defense. It's more than "just a bit of cloth." It "represents" MUCH more than that. Whereas I think people who go apeshit about the burning of a symbol have somehow lost sight of what the symbol represents.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #61 November 30, 2005 >DO something, impotent gestures are for children. Impotent gestures have ended segregation, gotten women the vote, got us out of Vietnam, etc etc. There's a reason such "childish impotent gestures" are protected by the constitution - because they are a great alternative to killing people and blowing things up to effect change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #62 November 30, 2005 Quote>Impotent gestures have ended segregation, gotten women the vote, got us out of Vietnam, etc etc. There's a reason such "childish impotent gestures" are protected by the constitution - because they are a great alternative to killing people and blowing things up to effect change. sittin in the front of the bus is not an impotent gesture giving coherent speeches is not an impotent gesture standling outside congress with signs that SAY what you mean is not an impotent gesture peeing in a cup and putting the flag or a cross in it is an impotent gesture burning a flag is an impotent gesture The difference here is an action that is specific to the thing you want to effect vs just general/undefined acts of discontent. It's the difference between citizens and a mob. It's the difference between attending city council meetings vs throwing a rock through front window of the mayor's house. We are flush with just general griping and undefined discontent. It's the lazy way out and doesn't help, which is a shame, because that is a lot of energy from well-meaning people that could be really have positive effect otherwise. Surely that's easy enough to understand. Saying "I deserve to vote and I want that changed" is a good statement, saying "I'm not happy but I'm not sure why or what I want you to do about it" is just a waste of energy. No one says 'impotent' gestures shouldn't be protected by the constitution - I don't know why you keep going there. You can't seem to separate a statement that something is a waste doesn't mean advocating a restrictive change in law. But that's a left wing thing to disagree with someone and then demand a law to get your way. These unfocused gestures can have the reverse effect of intent, they can just show the 'gesturers' as idiots with no goal, they can do nothing but waste energy. Don't burn a flag - instead, write the article, talk to congressmen, start a website, make sign, march around and talk about what you want rather than just saying "Kerry sucks" or "Bush is a Dickhead". Exercise critical and productive free speech, don't just cry about what you don't like and hope big brother will fix everything, put out a vision and work to it. That's my point. Be an adult. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #63 November 30, 2005 QuoteWhereas I think people who go apeshit about the burning of a symbol have somehow lost sight of what the symbol represents. Ever personally see somebody dead or mutilated from fightng to protect that symbol of freedom which represents our ideals and way of life here in America? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #64 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhereas I think people who go apeshit about the burning of a symbol have somehow lost sight of what the symbol represents. Ever personally see somebody dead or mutilated from fightng to protect that symbol of freedom which represents our ideals and way of life here in America? I've never seen somebody dead or mutilated trying to protect the symbol. Protecting the lives of fellow soldiers, working mission, etc. are other stories, however. And I concur with jenfly00's assertion. I'd be the first to put my ass back on the line so some yahoo continues to have the freedom to torch, wipe his ass with, or otherwise defile Old Glory, for whatever his reasons. Fuck yeah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #65 November 30, 2005 Quote And I concur with jenfly00's assertion. I'd be the first to put my ass back on the line so some yahoo continues to have the freedom to torch, wipe his ass with, or otherwise defile Old Glory, for whatever his reasons. Fuck yeah. Damn straight.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #66 November 30, 2005 QuoteI wiped my ass on a mates Celtic FC T shirt once after they beat Rangers FC. does this count ? i've got 4 rangers shirts LOL________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #67 November 30, 2005 Quote"i would, probably the Irish LOL"------------------ Them there is fighting words boy . Reading a book(I'm Irish) about 1800-1900 Ireland. Makes me wanna go kill some Englishmen forgive and forget i say just because us English always kick your arses, there's no need to be all sour about it ! by the way, got any spare potatoes?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,085 #68 November 30, 2005 >giving coherent speeches is not an impotent gesture . . . Well, it's impotent if no one sees it because you have been forced to stand in a "free speech zone." Burning a flag to get the news crews there, and then giving that same speech, would get that same speech heard by more people. (Many of which would hate you, but that's the price you pay for extremist attention-getting tricks.) Lately, and unfortunately, it requires such tricks to get anything heard. Democrats needed that stupid closed-session trick to even get Phase II of the Iraq war investigation started. Sheehan needed to camp in a ditch for days to get any notice. What would be nice is a media that reports on issues rather than sensational news stories. And outside of a few exceptions (NPR, the WSJ) we don't have that now. So people come up with stupid attention getting stunts. And burning the flag gets a lot of attention. >Don't burn a flag - instead, write the article, talk to congressmen, >start a website, make sign, march around and talk about what you >want rather than just saying "Kerry sucks" or "Bush is a Dickhead". In a day and age where even a Senate leader gets a form letter back from the president, those methods don't always work. And "Bush is a dick" doesn't contribute to the discourse, but (unfortunately) gets more media play. So people who believe strongly in their causes often have to accept obscurity while the water skiing parakeet and the latest Harry Potter movie make the headlines - or they have to pull stupid stunts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #69 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhereas I think people who go apeshit about the burning of a symbol have somehow lost sight of what the symbol represents. Ever personally see somebody dead or mutilated from fightng to protect that symbol of freedom which represents our ideals and way of life here in America? Protecting our freedom, or ideals and our way of life is admirable. Getting killed or mutilated protecting a piece of cloth that represents those things is a waste and a shame. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #70 December 1, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhereas I think people who go apeshit about the burning of a symbol have somehow lost sight of what the symbol represents. Ever personally see somebody dead or mutilated from fightng to protect that symbol of freedom which represents our ideals and way of life here in America? No, but I once saw a homeless guy repeatedly run head first into a concrete wall for a dollar a shot. Now if you want to talk about true patriots, who are willing to put their lives on the line to protect my right to engage in legal protest, he or she has my utmost admiration and respect. If not ...well, here's a dollar. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #71 December 1, 2005 QuoteNo, but I once saw a homeless guy repeatedly run head first into a concrete wall for a dollar a shot. haHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #72 December 1, 2005 QuoteNo, but I once saw a homeless guy repeatedly run head first into a concrete wall for a dollar a shot. Now if you want to talk about true patriots, who are willing to put their lives on the line to protect my right to engage in legal protest, he or she has my utmost admiration and respect. If not ...well, here's a dollar. That's very funny. However, it's a serious matter to a great many people who put their lives in danger every day to secure your freedom which that piece of cloth represents. To many of them, it's a slap in the face to degrade a symbol which means a great deal to them. I see it more like this. You should have the right to burn the flag but you should have the intelligence, discipline, and common decency not to exercise that right. It's just something one shouldn't do. IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #73 December 1, 2005 QuoteQuote..by burning a US Flag and exercising your constitutionally protected right to do so, you are actually strengthening and supporting the Symbol and the Ideal it represents... naw, you're just burning your cloth and proving only negative things about yourself - much like a two year old having a tantrum. I don't think you're strengthening the country (or hurting it for that matter) itself in any way. DO something, impotent gestures are for children. sure you are.. you are demonstrating that our system and the freedom it protects REALLY IS better than a good portion of the rest of world's, where you could be jailed, beaten and possibly killed for burning that simple piece of cloth.. the free exercise of your Constitutionally Guaranteed Rights does strengthen our country.. no matter what your personal veiws of the action itself..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #74 December 1, 2005 I would NEVER even let the thought of burning the icon of another nation's flag. I don't want them burning ours, so why should i burn theirs? There's a lot of people in these forums that REALLY need to get out of the USA more.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ragnarok 0 #75 December 1, 2005 Well, I really do believe that if someone really must burn the flag, more power to them. I serve for that very purpose - so they can have that right. It still stings a bit that they have to burn the flag, and I think about what so angered them to do that in the first place. In the end, I would rather see someone holding the flag proudly instead of burning it. Peace_________________________________________ Twin Otter N203-Echo,29 July 2006 Cessna P206 N2537X, 19 April 2008 Blue Skies Forever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
