kallend 2,118 #26 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuote The US spends way, way more money on defense than any other nation on earth. China may or may not rise. t It does indeed, while cutting back on money to educate its children.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #27 November 28, 2005 QuoteThe US spends way, way more money on defense than any other nation on earth. China may or may not rise. Every penny of which is completely wasted unless the US has to go to war (well ok, there are fringe benefits, but it does overwhelmingly represent a net loss). All in all, the country that can remain secure and divert its fiscal attention elsewhere will do far better. Now I'm not arguing that the US doesn't need a military, or even that China wont try to out spend the US on its military... but the mere fact that the US spends more on its military than anyone else tells us nothing about its worth as an economy – or how it will fare in an economic battle with China... which is more than likely what it will boil down to (if anything). Remember, Iraq used to be one of the biggest spenders on military hardware too - its population still lived in shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bertusgeert 1 #28 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteChina is already by far the most populated, Really? I thought India had them beaten on that front since the late 90's. Is your info up to date? The Economist Pocket World in Figures (2006 Edition) - on my desk says: China - 1,304.2 million India - 1,065.5 million U.S. 294.0 million India is definitely another player to watch for. Quote The US spends way, way more money on defense than any other nation on earth. China may or may not rise. You may find this site interesting. http://www.ibef.org/india/indiachina.aspx t The others have raised the same view. Here is my thoughts - not research based. The U.S. have to appear to be a fair and just nation that will not open up on just anyone. China seems to be playing "fair" according to the western economy driven world. I also read an interesting article where they talk about the strategies the CHinese are using - published byt he Chinese back in the '90's if I am not mistaken. It is much more than militarily. Economic warfare would be much more effective. (China holds the most US government bonds as well as pegging its exchange rate). --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,090 #29 November 28, 2005 >China's success is totally dependent on the U.S. The opposite is true as well. How well do you think the US economy would do if Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens etc shut down overnight? That's about 4 million people out of work instantly, and almost half of our consumer spending axed. >Further, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they >exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other >countries. How long can they sustain that? For as long as the people put up with it. Soon they'll form unions, and refuse to work more than 40 hours a week, and they'll have strikes, and they'll become a lot more like us. Of course by that time they'll be buying _their_ cheap crap from India. >Anyone who lived through the Cold War years knows this is simply not true. People in Iraq know it is. > As I said previously, anyone who lived through the Cold War >years understands that no single country can dominate the world. You are aware that one country won the Cold War, and one country lost it, right? We are currently dominating the world. When we don't like what a country does, we invade it and change it to our liking. We have thus far been smart enough not to do this very often. Let's hope the next country to come along is smarter still. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #30 November 28, 2005 India, while populous (very) is no-where near the same as China, which has natural resources in addition to its people. China's apparent lack of respect for its' human resources http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/2-0&fp=438b1e277813d8c3&ei=ZkyLQ8TSBsTY6wHOjsHlBQ&url=http%3A//www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php%3Fid%3D64602&cid=1102505649 or the environment http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/7-1&fp=438b1e277813d8c3&ei=ZkyLQ8TSBsTY6wHOjsHlBQ&url=http%3A//edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/11/28/china.water/&cid=1102530798 in it's quest to become a world leader speaks of the 'sacrifices' that the PRC is willing to undertake to gain a dominant position in the world economy. It is truely shameful that the US is aiding and abbetting this country and is eagerly supporting the corporations that are inadvertantly trying to cripple our own country by eliminating our manufacturing capacity and destroying our human capitol by not educating our children. The fact is, the USA will survive. Being a 2nd to China for a while will awaken the true americans and silence the false patriots that have apparently taken over.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #31 November 28, 2005 QuoteThe Economist Pocket World in Figures (2006 Edition) - on my desk says: China - 1,304.2 million India - 1,065.5 million U.S. 294.0 million Which is why both of them graduate more engineers than we do in the US. Of course, a lot of them still come here to get work. That large population isn't always an advantage. Overpopulation makes it hard to escape the developing nation syndrome. The USSR couldn't produce enough to feed its population and couldn't sustain a long term resource fight with the West. China has the same sorts of issues. Also has the same bullshit economic reports that are always positive. Viva communism! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #32 November 28, 2005 <> Reminds me of the B-Arc in Hitchhiker! ... Lawyers, hair-dressers and telephone sanitisers We're turing our countries into B-Arcs....... we really should be worried. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,118 #33 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe Economist Pocket World in Figures (2006 Edition) - on my desk says: China - 1,304.2 million India - 1,065.5 million U.S. 294.0 million Which is why both of them graduate more engineers than we do in the US. Of course, a lot of them still come here to get work. ! How come we graduate more lawyers, then?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #34 November 28, 2005 Quote How come we graduate more lawyers, then? Capitalism. The largest chunk of business for lawyers is companies suing other companies. And students have freedom to choose a career path that is already overloaded. The legal profession hasn't worked as hard as the medical profession to limit numbers. China's semi free market economy hasn't gotten to that point yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #35 November 29, 2005 QuoteI think he meant that hosting the olympics is a business, as opposed to partaking in them. Hosting the olympics is a business, no two ways about it. That's exactly what I meant--thanks for pointing that out. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #36 November 29, 2005 QuoteAlso has the same bullshit economic reports that are always positive. Viva communism! Slightly outdated statement. It is true that national TV is always praising the "amazing" accomplishments of the country. But China today is far more "capitalistic" than the US is. Amazingly enough, Chinese people have very little animosity towards the US (at least a lot less than some in the US have towards the PRC). Throughout its history, China has been trader to the world, while displaying very little desire to head towards imperialism. At the exception of the Tibet issue, China has spent a lot more time fighting for its independence than any other major country. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites waltappel 1 #37 November 29, 2005 Quote>China's success is totally dependent on the U.S. The opposite is true as well. How well do you think the US economy would do if Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens etc shut down overnight? That's about 4 million people out of work instantly, and almost half of our consumer spending axed. The opposite is partially true for sure. I'm thinking that China is in a position like a really big, successful company that has only one really big customer. That's a vulnerable position. Especially, if that customer is one hell of an over-spender who has massive amounts of debt. A few years back I worked for a consulting company that had well over 90% of its business coming from Enron. I thought it was a really bad idea at the time to be so dependent on one client, but I had no idea just how bad an idea it really was. Quote >Further, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they >exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other >countries. How long can they sustain that? For as long as the people put up with it. Soon they'll form unions, and refuse to work more than 40 hours a week, and they'll have strikes, and they'll become a lot more like us. Exactly my point. Quote Of course by that time they'll be buying _their_ cheap crap from India. RIGHT ON TARGET!!!!! Quote >Anyone who lived through the Cold War years knows this is simply not true. People in Iraq know it is. The comment was that there would be one country "calling all the shots" in the world. Iraq is in the position of having one country calling all the shots there, but they ain't the whole world. Quote > As I said previously, anyone who lived through the Cold War >years understands that no single country can dominate the world. You are aware that one country won the Cold War, and one country lost it, right? My view is that one country came out in better shape than the other, but looking at the massive debt we racked up, I'm very hesitant to say we "won". We just didn't lose as bad. I don't think the story is completey over, though. Quote We are currently dominating the world. When we don't like what a country does, we invade it and change it to our liking. We have thus far been smart enough not to do this very often. Let's hope the next country to come along is smarter still. I don't think that "dominating the world" is exactly what we do. We are incapable of that. We do exert a lot of influence (positive and negative) all over the world, but it's not like we *own* the rest of the world and personally, I hope we never do. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #38 November 29, 2005 QuoteAmazingly enough, Chinese people have very little animosity towards the US (at least a lot less than some in the US have towards the PRC). Strange comment. This is just anecdotal, but I don't know any single Chinese person here or in our factories there that has animosity towards the US (I do know a couple in Malaysia, just to contrast). And I don't know any American here that has animosity towards the Chinese - although one time one guy did comment that the culture was rather self centered (based on his travels/treatment there, and he is extremely mild mannered and very well traveled internationally), but I'd not call that 'animosity'. But I am comparing people of similar education and class level against each other (apples to apples). I wonder how you base your cultural bias in your statement that implies otherwise..... Nor do I see why it's 'amazing' that your personal experience with those Chinese you meet would not have 'animosity' towards the US in general. I also wonder what kind of individuals you know here in the US give a negative impression and are they culturally and class/education- wise fair counterparts of those Chinese you are comparing them to. I suspect for every attitude/individual you find in the US, you can find a counterpart in China or any other largely population nation. People are people everywhere and the variation in personalities within a culture will always be greater than the variation in personalities between different cultures. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #39 November 29, 2005 Agree re American animosity towards Chinese... but I think there is probably a lot of animosity towards China. To anthropomorphize the situation for a moment; it is a fairly natural response to feel animosity towards a rival whom you fear is about to eclipse you. I think I've seen quite a lot of those kind of feelings. There's a fair amount of it expressed on these boards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #40 November 29, 2005 QuoteI think I've seen quite a lot of those kind of feelings. There's a fair amount of it expressed on these boards. I haven't. And these boards do characterize the outspoken types. Most of my posts are scenarios/hypotheticals that I don't care about the position either way. But I've been misread many times as supporting something that don't - but would like to discuss anyway. Are you sure you aren't taking false 'impressions' as fact about other's attitudes. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,090 #41 November 29, 2005 >I don't think that "dominating the world" is exactly what we do. >We are incapable of that. What is the international air traffic language? What monetary unit is oil traded in? Do we respect the world governing body and its decisions? If someone demanded we give up our WMD programs, would we do so? We dominate the world not because we are bent on world domination, but because it follows from our desire to get lots of oil, be able to do whatever we want, be able to ignore treaties etc. And of course because we are powerful enough to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #42 November 29, 2005 QuoteTo anthropomorphize the situation for a moment ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #43 November 29, 2005 QuoteI wonder how you base your cultural bias in your statement that implies otherwise..... Nor do I see why it's 'amazing' that your personal experience with those Chinese you meet would not have 'animosity' towards the US in general. I also wonder what kind of individuals you know here in the US give a negative impression and are they culturally and class/education- wise fair counterparts of those Chinese you are comparing them to. You make some good points, including in your later post. Yes, I was referring to the "outspoken" types on this forum who seem to preach an eventual military conflict with China is unavoidable. I am sure they have their equivalent here in China, but I have not browsed local forums, as my Mandarin is at the "give the cabbie instructions" level... My experience with the few Chinese I communicate with, ranging from the local grocery store clerk to government officials, is that there is a very friendly attitude towards Americans, probably originaly stemming from Nixon's stand on the PRC in the 70's. Although they are puzzled by the US stand on Taiwan, I shoudl add. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #44 November 30, 2005 "What is the international air traffic language?" English, surely....But I'm pretty sure thats not because of any US influence, perhaps another overbearing empire though.... "We dominate the world not because we are bent on world domination,...etc" I disagree, you dominate the world not through some sort of 'master plan' well, not yet anyway, but because the previous dominating influences are waning. In essence, your dominance has outlived the competition from the FSU, Europe has to amalgamate to compete, and China is still too immature to challenge seriously. This may all change, but world domination has always been a dynamic process.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,118 #45 November 30, 2005 Quote" I disagree, you dominate the world not through some sort of 'master plan' well, not yet anyway, That's because the guy with the plan turns out NOT to be a master, but an incompetent planner.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #46 November 30, 2005 QuoteChinese I communicate with, ranging from the local grocery store clerk to government officials, is that there is a very friendly attitude Once we hit an individual-to-individual basis, I think people are the same everywhere. And most are decent and friendly with a few arrogant types and a few assholes scattered here and there. We (people in general) focus too much on the large scale differences (or protest too much that those differences don't matter - which might even be worse for the cause) - when the little stuff is what really matters - and that ties to individuals, not demographics. The demographic stuff people like to obsess about really ends up not being what I (IMO) consider substantial at all, just flavoring that doesn't really matter when push comes to shove. The more I travel, the more reinforced this position becomes. FWIW ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EricTheRed 0 #47 November 30, 2005 Quote Once we hit an individual-to-individual basis, I think people are the same everywhere. And most are decent and friendly with a few arrogant types and a few assholes scattered here and there. We (people in general) focus too much on the large scale differences (or protest too much that those differences don't matter - which might even be worse for the cause) - when the little stuff is what really matters - and that ties to individuals, not demographics. The demographic stuff people like to obsess about really ends up not being what I (IMO) consider substantial at all, just flavoring that doesn't really matter when push comes to shove. The more I travel, the more reinforced this position becomes. FWIW Yep. The problem lies with the few asshats that try to convince others that the differences are evil (commies, gays, jews, muslims, protestants, etc.) and use this natural fear of the unfamiliar to gain power.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mike111 0 #48 November 30, 2005 If china became too powerful, then the USA could ally with other countries to challenge them. That might equal the power. I don't wanna see China personally take the lead until they become more democratic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,090 #49 November 30, 2005 >then the USA could ally with other countries to challenge them. Who? Germany? France? I suppose, although there are some people here who would rather the US be invaded than ask France for help. But we'd need to be able to coordinate such countries, perhaps with a council where all such countries were represented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #50 November 30, 2005 QuoteChina's success is totally dependent on the U.S. Let's say that the US suddenly stopped all imports from China (not likely, to say the least!). Their economy would crumble. take your head out of you ass bro, china owns your economy QuoteFurther, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other countries. How long can they sustain that? The Chinese government also subsidizes the manufacturers. I've heard that factories do not pay for the electricity they use, but I have not been able to verify this. i remember when all japanes items were called 'jap crap' because they made all the cheap plastic shit that you get in your cerial box. what japan now makes is far from crap. chinese work in factories singing the company song making cheap shit because it feeds the family, meanwhile they are adopting essential skills that will be needed for them to develop new advanced technologies. if thier govornment pays the power bill? then that is only going to excellerate thier climb to the top. QuoteLet me spell it out for you. The Olympics is a business--plain and simple. They are in the entertainment business. When you are watching the Olympics, you are watching sporting events. If Argentina beats the US at soccer, does that mean they would beat us in a war? It's blowing my mind that you even think of the Olympics in relation to this topic. If you were some sort of total retard I could understand, but geeeez!!! the olympics is huge business like being a world power is huge business. hosting the olympics has only just been made into a profitable business (sydney) you watch the chinese make a huge profit. with world class facilities. they will need to to pay for your mortgage so you can buy thier stuff to put in your house bro i think china already holds the u.s. by the gonads. but allows the u.s. to think they are the greatest because they have to keep borrowing from china to make it look that way. suckers *** you're a cunning linguist, but i'm a master debator. austin powers"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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mr2mk1g 10 #27 November 28, 2005 QuoteThe US spends way, way more money on defense than any other nation on earth. China may or may not rise. Every penny of which is completely wasted unless the US has to go to war (well ok, there are fringe benefits, but it does overwhelmingly represent a net loss). All in all, the country that can remain secure and divert its fiscal attention elsewhere will do far better. Now I'm not arguing that the US doesn't need a military, or even that China wont try to out spend the US on its military... but the mere fact that the US spends more on its military than anyone else tells us nothing about its worth as an economy – or how it will fare in an economic battle with China... which is more than likely what it will boil down to (if anything). Remember, Iraq used to be one of the biggest spenders on military hardware too - its population still lived in shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bertusgeert 1 #28 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteChina is already by far the most populated, Really? I thought India had them beaten on that front since the late 90's. Is your info up to date? The Economist Pocket World in Figures (2006 Edition) - on my desk says: China - 1,304.2 million India - 1,065.5 million U.S. 294.0 million India is definitely another player to watch for. Quote The US spends way, way more money on defense than any other nation on earth. China may or may not rise. You may find this site interesting. http://www.ibef.org/india/indiachina.aspx t The others have raised the same view. Here is my thoughts - not research based. The U.S. have to appear to be a fair and just nation that will not open up on just anyone. China seems to be playing "fair" according to the western economy driven world. I also read an interesting article where they talk about the strategies the CHinese are using - published byt he Chinese back in the '90's if I am not mistaken. It is much more than militarily. Economic warfare would be much more effective. (China holds the most US government bonds as well as pegging its exchange rate). --------------------------------------------- As jy dom is moet jy bloei! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #29 November 28, 2005 >China's success is totally dependent on the U.S. The opposite is true as well. How well do you think the US economy would do if Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens etc shut down overnight? That's about 4 million people out of work instantly, and almost half of our consumer spending axed. >Further, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they >exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other >countries. How long can they sustain that? For as long as the people put up with it. Soon they'll form unions, and refuse to work more than 40 hours a week, and they'll have strikes, and they'll become a lot more like us. Of course by that time they'll be buying _their_ cheap crap from India. >Anyone who lived through the Cold War years knows this is simply not true. People in Iraq know it is. > As I said previously, anyone who lived through the Cold War >years understands that no single country can dominate the world. You are aware that one country won the Cold War, and one country lost it, right? We are currently dominating the world. When we don't like what a country does, we invade it and change it to our liking. We have thus far been smart enough not to do this very often. Let's hope the next country to come along is smarter still. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #30 November 28, 2005 India, while populous (very) is no-where near the same as China, which has natural resources in addition to its people. China's apparent lack of respect for its' human resources http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/2-0&fp=438b1e277813d8c3&ei=ZkyLQ8TSBsTY6wHOjsHlBQ&url=http%3A//www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php%3Fid%3D64602&cid=1102505649 or the environment http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/7-1&fp=438b1e277813d8c3&ei=ZkyLQ8TSBsTY6wHOjsHlBQ&url=http%3A//edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/11/28/china.water/&cid=1102530798 in it's quest to become a world leader speaks of the 'sacrifices' that the PRC is willing to undertake to gain a dominant position in the world economy. It is truely shameful that the US is aiding and abbetting this country and is eagerly supporting the corporations that are inadvertantly trying to cripple our own country by eliminating our manufacturing capacity and destroying our human capitol by not educating our children. The fact is, the USA will survive. Being a 2nd to China for a while will awaken the true americans and silence the false patriots that have apparently taken over.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 November 28, 2005 QuoteThe Economist Pocket World in Figures (2006 Edition) - on my desk says: China - 1,304.2 million India - 1,065.5 million U.S. 294.0 million Which is why both of them graduate more engineers than we do in the US. Of course, a lot of them still come here to get work. That large population isn't always an advantage. Overpopulation makes it hard to escape the developing nation syndrome. The USSR couldn't produce enough to feed its population and couldn't sustain a long term resource fight with the West. China has the same sorts of issues. Also has the same bullshit economic reports that are always positive. Viva communism! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #32 November 28, 2005 <> Reminds me of the B-Arc in Hitchhiker! ... Lawyers, hair-dressers and telephone sanitisers We're turing our countries into B-Arcs....... we really should be worried. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,118 #33 November 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe Economist Pocket World in Figures (2006 Edition) - on my desk says: China - 1,304.2 million India - 1,065.5 million U.S. 294.0 million Which is why both of them graduate more engineers than we do in the US. Of course, a lot of them still come here to get work. ! How come we graduate more lawyers, then?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 November 28, 2005 Quote How come we graduate more lawyers, then? Capitalism. The largest chunk of business for lawyers is companies suing other companies. And students have freedom to choose a career path that is already overloaded. The legal profession hasn't worked as hard as the medical profession to limit numbers. China's semi free market economy hasn't gotten to that point yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #35 November 29, 2005 QuoteI think he meant that hosting the olympics is a business, as opposed to partaking in them. Hosting the olympics is a business, no two ways about it. That's exactly what I meant--thanks for pointing that out. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #36 November 29, 2005 QuoteAlso has the same bullshit economic reports that are always positive. Viva communism! Slightly outdated statement. It is true that national TV is always praising the "amazing" accomplishments of the country. But China today is far more "capitalistic" than the US is. Amazingly enough, Chinese people have very little animosity towards the US (at least a lot less than some in the US have towards the PRC). Throughout its history, China has been trader to the world, while displaying very little desire to head towards imperialism. At the exception of the Tibet issue, China has spent a lot more time fighting for its independence than any other major country. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #37 November 29, 2005 Quote>China's success is totally dependent on the U.S. The opposite is true as well. How well do you think the US economy would do if Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens etc shut down overnight? That's about 4 million people out of work instantly, and almost half of our consumer spending axed. The opposite is partially true for sure. I'm thinking that China is in a position like a really big, successful company that has only one really big customer. That's a vulnerable position. Especially, if that customer is one hell of an over-spender who has massive amounts of debt. A few years back I worked for a consulting company that had well over 90% of its business coming from Enron. I thought it was a really bad idea at the time to be so dependent on one client, but I had no idea just how bad an idea it really was. Quote >Further, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they >exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other >countries. How long can they sustain that? For as long as the people put up with it. Soon they'll form unions, and refuse to work more than 40 hours a week, and they'll have strikes, and they'll become a lot more like us. Exactly my point. Quote Of course by that time they'll be buying _their_ cheap crap from India. RIGHT ON TARGET!!!!! Quote >Anyone who lived through the Cold War years knows this is simply not true. People in Iraq know it is. The comment was that there would be one country "calling all the shots" in the world. Iraq is in the position of having one country calling all the shots there, but they ain't the whole world. Quote > As I said previously, anyone who lived through the Cold War >years understands that no single country can dominate the world. You are aware that one country won the Cold War, and one country lost it, right? My view is that one country came out in better shape than the other, but looking at the massive debt we racked up, I'm very hesitant to say we "won". We just didn't lose as bad. I don't think the story is completey over, though. Quote We are currently dominating the world. When we don't like what a country does, we invade it and change it to our liking. We have thus far been smart enough not to do this very often. Let's hope the next country to come along is smarter still. I don't think that "dominating the world" is exactly what we do. We are incapable of that. We do exert a lot of influence (positive and negative) all over the world, but it's not like we *own* the rest of the world and personally, I hope we never do. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #38 November 29, 2005 QuoteAmazingly enough, Chinese people have very little animosity towards the US (at least a lot less than some in the US have towards the PRC). Strange comment. This is just anecdotal, but I don't know any single Chinese person here or in our factories there that has animosity towards the US (I do know a couple in Malaysia, just to contrast). And I don't know any American here that has animosity towards the Chinese - although one time one guy did comment that the culture was rather self centered (based on his travels/treatment there, and he is extremely mild mannered and very well traveled internationally), but I'd not call that 'animosity'. But I am comparing people of similar education and class level against each other (apples to apples). I wonder how you base your cultural bias in your statement that implies otherwise..... Nor do I see why it's 'amazing' that your personal experience with those Chinese you meet would not have 'animosity' towards the US in general. I also wonder what kind of individuals you know here in the US give a negative impression and are they culturally and class/education- wise fair counterparts of those Chinese you are comparing them to. I suspect for every attitude/individual you find in the US, you can find a counterpart in China or any other largely population nation. People are people everywhere and the variation in personalities within a culture will always be greater than the variation in personalities between different cultures. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #39 November 29, 2005 Agree re American animosity towards Chinese... but I think there is probably a lot of animosity towards China. To anthropomorphize the situation for a moment; it is a fairly natural response to feel animosity towards a rival whom you fear is about to eclipse you. I think I've seen quite a lot of those kind of feelings. There's a fair amount of it expressed on these boards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #40 November 29, 2005 QuoteI think I've seen quite a lot of those kind of feelings. There's a fair amount of it expressed on these boards. I haven't. And these boards do characterize the outspoken types. Most of my posts are scenarios/hypotheticals that I don't care about the position either way. But I've been misread many times as supporting something that don't - but would like to discuss anyway. Are you sure you aren't taking false 'impressions' as fact about other's attitudes. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #41 November 29, 2005 >I don't think that "dominating the world" is exactly what we do. >We are incapable of that. What is the international air traffic language? What monetary unit is oil traded in? Do we respect the world governing body and its decisions? If someone demanded we give up our WMD programs, would we do so? We dominate the world not because we are bent on world domination, but because it follows from our desire to get lots of oil, be able to do whatever we want, be able to ignore treaties etc. And of course because we are powerful enough to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #42 November 29, 2005 QuoteTo anthropomorphize the situation for a moment ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #43 November 29, 2005 QuoteI wonder how you base your cultural bias in your statement that implies otherwise..... Nor do I see why it's 'amazing' that your personal experience with those Chinese you meet would not have 'animosity' towards the US in general. I also wonder what kind of individuals you know here in the US give a negative impression and are they culturally and class/education- wise fair counterparts of those Chinese you are comparing them to. You make some good points, including in your later post. Yes, I was referring to the "outspoken" types on this forum who seem to preach an eventual military conflict with China is unavoidable. I am sure they have their equivalent here in China, but I have not browsed local forums, as my Mandarin is at the "give the cabbie instructions" level... My experience with the few Chinese I communicate with, ranging from the local grocery store clerk to government officials, is that there is a very friendly attitude towards Americans, probably originaly stemming from Nixon's stand on the PRC in the 70's. Although they are puzzled by the US stand on Taiwan, I shoudl add. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #44 November 30, 2005 "What is the international air traffic language?" English, surely....But I'm pretty sure thats not because of any US influence, perhaps another overbearing empire though.... "We dominate the world not because we are bent on world domination,...etc" I disagree, you dominate the world not through some sort of 'master plan' well, not yet anyway, but because the previous dominating influences are waning. In essence, your dominance has outlived the competition from the FSU, Europe has to amalgamate to compete, and China is still too immature to challenge seriously. This may all change, but world domination has always been a dynamic process.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,118 #45 November 30, 2005 Quote" I disagree, you dominate the world not through some sort of 'master plan' well, not yet anyway, That's because the guy with the plan turns out NOT to be a master, but an incompetent planner.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #46 November 30, 2005 QuoteChinese I communicate with, ranging from the local grocery store clerk to government officials, is that there is a very friendly attitude Once we hit an individual-to-individual basis, I think people are the same everywhere. And most are decent and friendly with a few arrogant types and a few assholes scattered here and there. We (people in general) focus too much on the large scale differences (or protest too much that those differences don't matter - which might even be worse for the cause) - when the little stuff is what really matters - and that ties to individuals, not demographics. The demographic stuff people like to obsess about really ends up not being what I (IMO) consider substantial at all, just flavoring that doesn't really matter when push comes to shove. The more I travel, the more reinforced this position becomes. FWIW ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #47 November 30, 2005 Quote Once we hit an individual-to-individual basis, I think people are the same everywhere. And most are decent and friendly with a few arrogant types and a few assholes scattered here and there. We (people in general) focus too much on the large scale differences (or protest too much that those differences don't matter - which might even be worse for the cause) - when the little stuff is what really matters - and that ties to individuals, not demographics. The demographic stuff people like to obsess about really ends up not being what I (IMO) consider substantial at all, just flavoring that doesn't really matter when push comes to shove. The more I travel, the more reinforced this position becomes. FWIW Yep. The problem lies with the few asshats that try to convince others that the differences are evil (commies, gays, jews, muslims, protestants, etc.) and use this natural fear of the unfamiliar to gain power.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #48 November 30, 2005 If china became too powerful, then the USA could ally with other countries to challenge them. That might equal the power. I don't wanna see China personally take the lead until they become more democratic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #49 November 30, 2005 >then the USA could ally with other countries to challenge them. Who? Germany? France? I suppose, although there are some people here who would rather the US be invaded than ask France for help. But we'd need to be able to coordinate such countries, perhaps with a council where all such countries were represented. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #50 November 30, 2005 QuoteChina's success is totally dependent on the U.S. Let's say that the US suddenly stopped all imports from China (not likely, to say the least!). Their economy would crumble. take your head out of you ass bro, china owns your economy QuoteFurther, they are able to sell goods very cheaply because they exploit their populations more and on a much larger scale than other countries. How long can they sustain that? The Chinese government also subsidizes the manufacturers. I've heard that factories do not pay for the electricity they use, but I have not been able to verify this. i remember when all japanes items were called 'jap crap' because they made all the cheap plastic shit that you get in your cerial box. what japan now makes is far from crap. chinese work in factories singing the company song making cheap shit because it feeds the family, meanwhile they are adopting essential skills that will be needed for them to develop new advanced technologies. if thier govornment pays the power bill? then that is only going to excellerate thier climb to the top. QuoteLet me spell it out for you. The Olympics is a business--plain and simple. They are in the entertainment business. When you are watching the Olympics, you are watching sporting events. If Argentina beats the US at soccer, does that mean they would beat us in a war? It's blowing my mind that you even think of the Olympics in relation to this topic. If you were some sort of total retard I could understand, but geeeez!!! the olympics is huge business like being a world power is huge business. hosting the olympics has only just been made into a profitable business (sydney) you watch the chinese make a huge profit. with world class facilities. they will need to to pay for your mortgage so you can buy thier stuff to put in your house bro i think china already holds the u.s. by the gonads. but allows the u.s. to think they are the greatest because they have to keep borrowing from china to make it look that way. suckers *** you're a cunning linguist, but i'm a master debator. austin powers"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
