Texas may have executed innocent man

[artistcalledian 0]

let me ask you this.......

if we (society) deem that we can judge somebody for doing something wrong, does that make us (society) the peer of the accused.... and then if we say that killing is wrong, how can we as peers, then go and do exactly what we're saying is wrong, to the person we (as peers) are judging them over and trying to punish them for?

isn't the death penalty a contradiction? its saying that killing is wrong, and to punish you for doing that wrong, we'll also do the very thing we say is wrong and kill you !

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drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[steveorino 7]

execution for a capital crime and murder are simply notthe same. Although that is simply my opinion, it is also the opinion of the US court system.

Using your same logic; would it be wrong to fine a person for stealing?

steveOrino

[billvon 3,111]

>The families that cried out for Timothy McVeigh's death were not
>seeking revenge, but justice.

Justice is served by a conviction; a conviction resulting in life imprisonment or execution is equally just. Revenge is served only by violence.

[steveorino 7]

I agree, your point?

steveOrino

[rehmwa 2]

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>The families that cried out for Timothy McVeigh's death were not
>seeking revenge, but justice.

Justice is served by a conviction; a conviction resulting in life imprisonment or execution is equally just. Revenge is served only by violence.

I agree, but punishment (Life or Execution) is about protecting society, whatever the specific victim's family get out of it is a side effect - they were already victimized, can't take that back.

So what's your point about violence?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steveorino 7]

You make it out that the victoms can only seek revenge and not justice. Obviously, they can seek either. Seeking revenge will gain them nothing. Seeking justice helps bring closure.

THIS WAS MEANT FOR PREVIOUS POSTER -- NOT THE ONE I REPLIED TO. (sorry for shouting, but I wanted to make that clear)

steveOrino

[artistcalledian 0]

its a very interesting topic of conversation....

its alot easier to take a none death penalty view if its not your loved one murdered, if it is your loved one, i'm pretty damn sure alot more people would be in favour of the death penalty

i'm not really in favour of the death penalty, but then again i'm not effected directly by it... i'm sure that if my girlfriend (who is a detective in the police in the uk) was murdered, i'd pull the trigger myself on the scum bag who did it

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[billvon 3,111]

> I agree, your point?

Justice does not require execution; revenge often does. In a great many cases, I believe that capital punishment is used to serve both.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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You're confusing revenge with justice. The families that cried out for Timothy McVeigh's death were not seeking revenge, but justice.

Um...huh? How is using a different word make anything different. You are trying to play the semantics game when in fact you basically just said revenge = justice.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[artistcalledian 0]

If its not a loved one murdered, i want justice.... if its a loved one murdered, i want revenge

thats what normal human emotions do for you

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[rehmwa 2]

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Seeking justice helps bring closure.

I know you weren't replying to me, but still this is a point (and to Dian's post as well).

The emotional content for revenge of the victims must have ZERO to do with administering justice. Justice must be fair, cold and put forth for the protection of society.

If the victim's family are part of it, it will derail the system. (If they get closure from seeking justice, that's great, but it should not factor in any way with the process). The fact that emotion/empathy is frequently used in penalty decisions is sad, it takes away from objectivity and parity in penalties and process.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[steveorino 7]

well said.

steveOrino

[rehmwa 2]

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>Justice does not require execution; revenge often does. In a great many cases, I believe that capital punishment is used to serve both.

nicely said - but can't an emotional appeal also lessen a penalty when it shouldn't be. I think it cuts both ways in terms of assigning punishment.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[justinb138 0]

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> I agree, your point?

Justice does not require execution; revenge often does. In a great many cases, I believe that capital punishment is used to serve both.

Wasn't that in the latest Batman movie?

[rehmwa 2]

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Quote

> I agree, your point?

Justice does not require execution; revenge often does. In a great many cases, I believe that capital punishment is used to serve both.

Wasn't that in the latest Batman movie?

That was a great movie (Batman Begins). Tim Burton sucks.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tigra 0]

Wasn't it Cantu (the man who was executed) that was involved but not convicted in the police shooting? And the primary witness against him an undocumented immigrant who did not ID him until after he was shown the photo 3 times? (The third time long after the crime, but only shortly after Cantu was acquitted in the police shooting?) And the other witness, a co-defendent who got a lighter sentence for testifying and now feels guilty?

[billvon 3,111]

>but can't an emotional appeal also lessen a penalty when it shouldn't be.

Yes.

Many people have this idea that justice should not just determine guilt and apply punishment, but also "right the wrongs" done by a criminal. And since, in the case of a murder, the victim's family was wronged, they should have some say in the severity of his punishment (or if they believe he has repented or whatever, the leniency of his punishment.) That's a very slippery slope, though, because it brings emotion into a process that should remain as impartial as humanly possible.

[gemini 0]

Yes it was Cantu who was involved in the shooting with police. I confused Garza and Cantu because both have extensive criminal records and were gang members. (I live in Houston and there is a lot more detail than being reported by the unbiased press.)

Blue skies,

Jim

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>Many people have this idea that justice should not just determine guilt and apply punishment, but also "right the wrongs" done by a criminal. And since, in the case of a murder, the victim's family was wronged, they should have some say in the severity of his punishment (or if they believe he has repented or whatever, the leniency of his punishment.) That's a very slippery slope, though, because it brings emotion into a process that should remain as impartial as humanly possible.

wow, that's at least 4 or 5 of us on the same thread with 'similar' opinions.

It's downright gushy in here (for SC)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

That death penalty has worked really well for you guys...just look at how few people get killed in the US on a yearly basis....great deterrent....

[tigra 0]

I read about this yesterday, and I do see where you are coming from. And I hear you about the "unbiased" press. I guess there's innocent and then there's innocent. Clearly the man wasn't a fine upstanding member of society, but he also *may* have been convicted and executed for a crime he did not commit. One less gang banger on the streets, but does the end justify the means?

[Channman 2]

Thanks,

We try to insure those that are put to death never repeat their crimes against humanity.

So far we're at 100%.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Thanks,

We try to insure those that are put to death never repeat their crimes against humanity.

So far we're at 100%.

Ohh, here I was thinking that it was a deterrent for those who were still among the living...silly me, it is a deterrent for those who are dead...now it all makes perfect sense....

Those that are put in jail for life never repeat their crimes either.....

[justinb138 0]

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Quote

Thanks,

We try to insure those that are put to death never repeat their crimes against humanity.

So far we're at 100%.

Ohh, here I was thinking that it was a deterrent for those who were still among the living...silly me, it is a deterrent for those who are dead...now it all makes perfect sense....

Those that are put in jail for life never repeat their crimes either.....

Life in prison here is not really life in prison.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Life in prison here is not really life in prison.

Then truly make it life in prisoin and get rid of the death penalty....