kelpdiver 2 #176 November 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteAnd you are blaming a video game?! How is that any less stupid? It's an object too. A gun is an inanimate object that imparts no bad ideas to people on its own. A video game, on the other hand, actually teaches kids about bad behavior, and rewards them for it. It's about what the game is putting in their minds, to be played out later in real life... Millions of us have played Doom and Wolf 3-D and Counterstrike, where the goal of the game is to kill others, sometimes with a chainsaw (gasp!). How can you not see that any differently than the millions of gun owners? You accept both, or neither. To go wishy washy here destroys your case. The primary difference, of course, is the video game never killed anyone. And lots of people out there claim that the gun does encourage evil. Has as much foundation as your claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #177 November 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote A gun is an inanimate object that imparts no bad ideas to people on its own. A video game, on the other hand, actually teaches kids about bad behavior, and rewards them for it. It's about what the game is putting in their minds, to be played out later in real life... Which is why young kids shouldn't be able to play them. But that's a parenting issue, not a video game issue. Like the three year old in Indiana who killed himself with his father's Glock yesterday. was it a grand father glock? or a nice pocket glock?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #178 November 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote A gun is an inanimate object that imparts no bad ideas to people on its own. A video game, on the other hand, actually teaches kids about bad behavior, and rewards them for it. It's about what the game is putting in their minds, to be played out later in real life... Which is why young kids shouldn't be able to play them. But that's a parenting issue, not a video game issue. Like the three year old in Indiana who killed himself with his father's Glock yesterday. And where would a three-year-old have gotten the idea to pick up a gun, how to hold it, and how to pull a trigger? Perhaps from video games or a myriad of TV shows? Kids mimic what they see others doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #179 November 29, 2005 QuoteQuoteA gun is an inanimate object that imparts no bad ideas to people on its own. A video game, on the other hand, actually teaches kids about bad behavior, and rewards them for it. It's about what the game is putting in their minds, to be played out later in real life... Millions of us have played Doom and Wolf 3-D and Counterstrike, where the goal of the game is to kill others, sometimes with a chainsaw (gasp!). How can you not see that any differently than the millions of gun owners? Adults can separate fantasy from reality. Young kids I'm not so sure about. Have you thought about the idea that all these school shootings have just cropped up in the last decade, coincidentally when all these death & destruction realistic video games have appeared? I dated a gal a while back, whose kid would playfully attack me as soon as I came in the door, throwing kicks and punches. Some of them hurt, but it never occurred to him that he was actually hurting me. Why did he exhibit this behavior? He was just copying the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" cartoon show behavior. Kids mimic what they see on TV and in video games. Let them spend hours per day shooting people in a realistic video game, and then put them into a room with a real live gun, and I wonder what would happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #180 November 29, 2005 QuoteI dated a gal a while back, Quotewhose kid would attack me as soon as I came in the door, throwing kicks and punches i would imagine you get that responce quite often from people ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #181 November 30, 2005 Quote And where would a three-year-old have gotten the idea to pick up a gun, how to hold it, and how to pull a trigger? Perhaps from video games or a myriad of TV shows? Kids mimic what they see others doing. Blaming an accidental shooting of a 3 year old on a video game or tv show is pretty damn pathetic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #182 November 30, 2005 QuoteHave you thought about the idea that all these school shootings have just cropped up in the last decade, coincidentally when all these death & destruction realistic video games have appeared? Nope. Not even clear to me that the problem has increased over the past. If I wanted to grasp at straws, I'm more inclined to blame crappy parenting (duh) and the overprescription of drugs to adolescents. With a final helping of blame for the media that overpublicizes the punks' story telling the next one he'll get lots of attention too. So, other than out of thin air, where's your proof? Don't tell me you're a disciple of Jack Thompson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #183 November 30, 2005 QuoteLike the three year old in Indiana who killed himself with his father's Glock yesterday. Personally I believe that this particular tragedy was very much a keeping firearms safe & secure issue! 1. Keep your gun secure from small children! 2. Keep your gun secure from small children! 3. Keep your gun secure from small children! 4. Keep your gun secure from small children! 5. Keep your gun secure from small children! 6... 7... 8...Etc... If a 3 year old can get to your gun without you noticing, then could a burglar or a thief!!? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #184 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuotewhose kid would attack me as soon as I came in the door, throwing kicks and punches i would imagine you get that responce quite often from people Speaking from experience, are we? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #185 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotewhose kid would attack me as soon as I came in the door, throwing kicks and punches i would imagine you get that responce quite often from people Speaking from experience, are we? Mike. ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #186 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteLike the three year old in Indiana who killed himself with his father's Glock yesterday. Personally I believe that this particular tragedy was very much a keeping firearms safe & secure issue! 1. Keep your gun secure from small children! 2. Keep your gun secure from small children! 3. Keep your gun secure from small children! 4. Keep your gun secure from small children! 5. Keep your gun secure from small children! 6... 7... 8...Etc... If a 3 year old can get to your gun without you noticing, then could a burglar or a thief!!? Mike. That would seem to be common sense. It seems that some people are just too stupid to be allowed to have a gun.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #187 November 30, 2005 QuoteIt seems that some people are just too stupid to be allowed to have a gun. Isn't advocating [flash]Gun Control[/flash] on the basis of intelligence a self-defeating proposal? Mike. PS. I'll just go away and hide for a while until everyone realises IT WAS KALLEND who opened this particular can of worms!!! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #188 November 30, 2005 >Isn't advocating Gun Control on the basis >of intelligence a self-defeating proposal? I'd have no problem removing guns from someone who has proven themselves too stupid to use them safely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #189 November 30, 2005 OK... That's it... Been here before in this forum... "Mikee-D no here! He reave velly long time! Go rong way away! No reave forward address! This Chinese raundly shop and take-away lestaulant now! Velly solly!" Legards, Wan Hun Glo. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #190 November 30, 2005 Quote>I'd have no problem removing guns from someone who has proven themselves too stupid to use them safely. Let's take this the next step, so we have IQ testing, maturity assessment, certification and training required to: 1 - own guns 2 - have children 3 - have pets 4 - plan a meal 5 - play video games 6 - teach or train anyone 7 - drive a car 8 - skydive 9 - play hockey 10 - eat jello 11 - have sex 12 - manage a quickie mart 13 - drive a motorcycle 14 - mow your lawn 15 - do any kind of political public service 16 - etc etc etc Big Brother is alive and well - and each of us would pick different combinations of the above, wouldn't we? Some are already in place. I guess it depends on just how much one person despises the rest of the populace and thinks they need babysitting. Italics for those I'd consider. But I'd rather take away the right once proven incompetent rather than make someone jump through the hoops prior to 'permitting' these (which is what BV said 'take away'). But I expect a lot from parents in terms of training and raising their kids - as such, I think much of it is redundant compared to what kids should be taught without a law or requirement. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #191 November 30, 2005 QuoteBut I'd rather take away the right once proven incompetent rather than make someone jump through the hoops prior to 'permitting' these IF I understand you correctly, you advocate no prior testing to allow someone to drive a motorbike or teach a class of children, or skydive. You just let them do it until they prove themselves incompetent. IS that what you meant?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #192 November 30, 2005 QuoteIS that what you meant? no you understand completely wrong, got to take each one individually to see where I draw my personal line in the sand go play your word games with someone else. I'm not up for that today ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #193 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuote And where would a three-year-old have gotten the idea to pick up a gun, how to hold it, and how to pull a trigger? Perhaps from video games or a myriad of TV shows? Kids mimic what they see others doing. Blaming an accidental shooting of a 3 year old on a video game or tv show is pretty damn pathetic. I note that you didn't address the question about how the child would have learned to operate the firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #194 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote And where would a three-year-old have gotten the idea to pick up a gun, how to hold it, and how to pull a trigger? Perhaps from video games or a myriad of TV shows? Kids mimic what they see others doing. Blaming an accidental shooting of a 3 year old on a video game or tv show is pretty damn pathetic. I note that you didn't address the question about how the child would have learned to operate the firearm. Learning how to pull a trigger doesn't exactly require a power-point presentation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #195 November 30, 2005 QuoteI note that you didn't address the question about how the child would have learned to operate the firearm. You ever play a video game, John? I can't think of any that had any constructive information about how to operate a firearm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #196 November 30, 2005 QuoteI can't think of any that had any constructive information about how to operate a firearm. C'mon It's easy - to pick up the gun, you walk through the shining thing hanging there to load the gun, you press button "C" and then pull back on the stick to shoot, just push button "A" on that thing at the end of the long wire (I think this is a digression, JR's point is more about desensitization of the 'REAL' affects of guns and that games which give a false security and lack of consequences of the actions of shooting have now replaced what used to be taught from father to son with the real thing which did promote responsible use - at that time, guns were handled responsibly by most. Now, the unreasonable fear of many to not own guns and learn and teach their use responsibly is likely making the irresponsible use of guns more widespread in their own families and circle of friends and they don't even realize that their fear is just justifying - lack of familiarity breeds poor use and fear. So it's a self fulfilling problem.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,117 #197 November 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote And where would a three-year-old have gotten the idea to pick up a gun, how to hold it, and how to pull a trigger? Perhaps from video games or a myriad of TV shows? Kids mimic what they see others doing. Blaming an accidental shooting of a 3 year old on a video game or tv show is pretty damn pathetic. I note that you didn't address the question about how the child would have learned to operate the firearm. Why assume a problem with this? My cat learned to operate a door handle and no-one taught him how to do it. Having had four children, I am quite sure an inquisitive 3 year old child could easily have learned to do it all by him/herself.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #198 December 6, 2005 QuoteDoesn't work, does it ? or all of the countries with armed police wouldn't have voilent criminals And yet countries with strong gun laws still have violent criminals as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #199 December 6, 2005 Tis the point I try to make. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twibbles 0 #200 December 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteDoesn't work, does it ? or all of the countries with armed police wouldn't have voilent criminals And yet countries with strong gun laws still have violent criminals as well. Singapore has a strong gun law: use a firearm in a crime and it's a mandatory death sentence. I can't remember the last time there was a shooting, and there's no repeat offenders. A bit of background: All police officers are armed, but ownership of guns are strictly regulated since 1823, The entire male population over the age of 18 have served in the military, and a gurrellia war was fought there (Malaya) in the 1950s for 12 years when still under British rule. Eugene "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
