mnealtx 0 #101 November 26, 2005 Quotemy girlfriend is in the Scotish CID and she says that most british police don't want to be armed, they joined an unarmed force and don't want to carry a gun... she says she would rather let a crimianl escape than to have to draw a gun on them fuck guns, leave them to the fools who want them Wow....just wow.... I guess "to serve and protect" doesn't have any play with the police over there, does it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ViperPilot 0 #102 November 26, 2005 Apparently avoiding the bad guys and just running from the problem altogether is the European way to do things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #103 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuotemy girlfriend is in the Scotish CID and she says that most british police don't want to be armed, they joined an unarmed force and don't want to carry a gun... she says she would rather let a crimianl escape than to have to draw a gun on them fuck guns, leave them to the fools who want them Wow....just wow.... I guess "to serve and protect" doesn't have any play with the police over there, does it? serving and protecing can be (and is) done without having to draw a gun on somebody, is that so hard for you to understand? Let me explain it for you.... She joined the police 8 years ago, she wanted to join the police to "serve and protect" knowing it was an unarmed police force, she hates guns and would never EVER carry or use one. She does her job very well wihtout a gun. She has arrested many people in 8 years, NONE of them required her to pull a gun on them, if it ever came to a situation where a gun was required to be used, she values her own life more than carrying a gun and having to use it on somebody, so would rather that person (who would be carrying a gun themselves) got away that time than risk her life by getting in a possible shootout situation I've not even looked at your profile, but i'd guess you're American with that kind of attitude towards guns, our police are respected all over the world for the job they do (unarmed), sadly.. yours aren't. What answer do you have to the fact that most British police don't want to carry guns? do you force them to and have a load of people walking the streest with guns who don't want them and are not prepared to use them? Because of the gun culture in America, you see police routinely drawing guns in situations that don't require it in the UK. You have a shoot first then ask qustions later mentallity, which is exactly why when i've been over to American, i've felt uneasy when dealing with the police. To me, Ameica is fucked where guns are concerned, its too late to do anything about it because there are WAY too many guns in circulation to make any form of control effetive. Hense why you've got situations (and an attitude) where people think its ok to take guns to a DZ i thought it classic American when i read the arguments about guns in which somebody was arguing the toss about his rights to take a gun to a drop zone, simply because he wanted to and thought he was safe doing so... priceless________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #104 November 26, 2005 QuoteShe joined the police 8 years ago, she wanted to join the police to "serve and protect" knowing it was an unarmed police force, she hates guns and would never EVER carry or use one. Yes, I can see that "serve and protect" only seems to matter where she's not inconvenienced, based on this and your other post. I'm not making any comment on the Bobbies not wanting to carry guns - that's their choice. I feel they should have the OPTION, if they want or need to, however....but that's someting that your gov't will have to settle amongst themselves.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #105 November 26, 2005 QuoteYes, I can see that "serve and protect" only seems to matter where she's not inconvenienced, based on this and your other post. bullshit, you actually think its a matter of not being "inconvenienced" ???????? absolutly priceless________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #106 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteYes, I can see that "serve and protect" only seems to matter where she's not inconvenienced, based on this and your other post. bullshit, you actually think its a matter of not being "inconvenienced" ???????? absolutly priceless Hmmm...let's take a look at the evidence, counselor... Quoteshe says she would rather let a crimianl escape than to have to draw a gun on them and Quoteso would rather that person (who would be carrying a gun themselves) got away that time than risk her life by getting in a possible shootout situation How would you call it, based on what you posted, above? In retrospect...maybe I should have said "To serve and protect....as long as I'm not put in any danger because of it"... there, that's a bit more accurate, isn't it?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #107 November 26, 2005 can i ask you a question? are you a policeman? are you putting yourself out there yourself to protect and serve?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #108 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteWant to know when the last time a police officer was shot dead? It was 2 years ago by a visiting American. The last time before that and you have to look back 10 years. Let me just repeat that. You have to look back TEN YEARS for another fatal police shooting. Just to put that in perspective if you look at www.leoka.com to see that in the US over the last 10 yrs there has been ana average of over 60 policemen/Law Enforcement officers killed each year. what a suprise...NOT American has a gun culture, you only have to look at some of the knob heads on here who think they have to carry a gun to protect themselves at all times... yes, maybe in American you have to carry a gun at all time, but certainly not in England, thank god we don't have the twisted gun mentallity that the yanks have, we'd be as fucked as they are if we did oh, by the way... i think i'll just strap on my Colt 45 and pop down to the supermarket, hey..you've got to be prepared at all times, right? hell... i might even take it down my local DZ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #109 November 26, 2005 Quotecan i ask you a question? are you a policeman? are you putting yourself out there yourself to protect and serve? No, I'm not a policeman, but I did serve in the military. What's the relevance to your post? Are you a policeman, or did you serve in the military?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #110 November 26, 2005 Quotewhat a suprise...NOT American has a gun culture, you only have to look at some of the knob heads on here who think they have to carry a gun to protect themselves at all times... yes, maybe in American you have to carry a gun at all time, but certainly not in England, thank god we don't have the twisted gun mentallity that the yanks have, we'd be as fucked as they are if we did Yep, not having a weapon sure did those two police officers in Bedford a lot of good, didn't it? At least the officers were able to carry batons or spray to be able to have a BIT of a chance to defend themselves... Quoteoh, by the way... i think i'll just strap on my Colt 45 and pop down to the supermarket, hey..you've got to be prepared at all times, right? hell... i might even take it down my local DZ Since you seem to know where crime is going to happen, maybe you should moonlight with the local police department as a psychic? While you're at it, maybe you should just jump a BASE rig...after all, you're obviously going to know when something bad is going to happen and just skip that jump, right?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #111 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuotecan i ask you a question? are you a policeman? are you putting yourself out there yourself to protect and serve? No, I'm not a policeman, but I did serve in the military. What's the relevance to your post? Are you a policeman, or did you serve in the military? so, you've no experience at all of what the police in this country do, or what the police in any country do apart from what you see and read about, yet you feel qualified to comment on the British police and how they don't protect and serve just because they don't carry a gun. i'm not a policeman because i choose not to be, but my girlfriend is so i know exactly what they go through, you don't. you were in the military? is that were you got your desire to carry a gun from at all times? England has a diferent outlook towards gun compared to America, you feel its not only your right, but its also REQUIRED to carry or gun, or you can't protet yourself from those robbers who just might strike as you're going down the vegatable isle at your local 7/11 I really feel sorry for people in America who have this inbred gun culture thing going on, to live your life thinking that at any moemnt you might be in a situation that you might need a gun, must be terrible, thank god i live in England is all i can say The two poliewomen that this topic is about would still have been shot if they had been carrying guns themselves. It was a burglar alarm that went off, its standard practice for probationers to go to those calls... they were shot before they even realised that the robbers were coming out of the travel agents. Answer me this... why do you think its so rare for the police to get shot in this country?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #112 November 26, 2005 Quote so, you've no experience at all of what the police in this country do, or what the police in any country do apart from what you see and read about, yet you feel qualified to comment on the British police and how they don't protect and serve just because they don't carry a gun. i'm not a policeman because i choose not to be, but my girlfriend is so i know exactly what they go through, you don't. And my brother works as a security office, several of my friends ARE police officers or in training, and my late uncle was a Illinois State Trooper - you're trumped, if you want to use that gambit. Quoteyou were in the military? is that were you got your desire to carry a gun from at all times? Who said I wanted to carry one at all times? Other than you, of course. QuoteEngland has a diferent outlook towards gun compared to America, you feel its not only your right, but its also REQUIRED to carry or gun, or you can't protet yourself from those robbers who just might strike as you're going down the vegatable isle at your local 7/11 Again, who is saying that you HAVE to carry one at all times, other than you? QuoteI really feel sorry for people in America who have this inbred gun culture thing going on, to live your life thinking that at any moemnt you might be in a situation that you might need a gun, must be terrible, thank god i live in England is all i can say "I really feel sorry for people in Europe who have this inbred gun fear culture thing going on, to live your life thinking that at any moemnt you might be in a situation that you might see a gun, must be terrible, thank god i live in America is all i can say." QuoteThe two poliewomen that this topic is about would still have been shot if they had been carrying guns themselves. It was a burglar alarm that went off, its standard practice for probationers to go to those calls... they were shot before they even realised that the robbers were coming out of the travel agents. Are you sure? No, there's no way you could be. You're making suppositions based on the precepts of your outlook and culture. If they were shot before they even saw the suspects, then perhaps the local police departments need to look at their training programs. QuoteAnswer me this... why do you think its so rare for the police to get shot in this country? Didn't we cover this up above? Seriously... different culture. That's the cause...it's not the guns, it's the people...the culture.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #113 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotecan i ask you a question? are you a policeman?... No, I'm not a policeman QuoteI'm not a policeman... but my girlfriend is so i know exactly what they go through, you don't. The logic of this is kind of lost on me - The idea that someone KNOWS a police officer more intimately automatically makes them more of an expert? I assume MnealTX also knows a police officer or two... If not in the Biblical sense! The original post sought comments & discussion from all - Constructive would be nice - and in particular, comments from serving police officers in various countries on their own feelings about being armed or unarmed in the course of their duties. Also, one wonders how people in the various countries feel about having routinely armed police? Incidentally, "The Unarmed British Bobby" has only really existed since about 1950. Prior to that there have been long periods where ordinary beat police officers were routinely armed on duty (I saw a hilarious Met Police order dated around 1922 in which longer serving officers got better guns! Pinfires for Junior Constables, revolvers for Senior Constables! Sergeants & Inspectors were allowed automatics & shotguns etc...). During the periods in history when the British Police were routinely armed I don't think that they were in turn shot more often! So... "Why IS it so rare for the police to get shot in this country?" Is it simply because they are unarmed themselves? Do criminals have some collective sense of fair play in this respect? Is it because guns are still relatively hard to obtain in this country? Is it a culture thing with British Society (including criminals) having an abhorrence of guns? Are they "more trouble than they're worth"? And, how will the current immigration to Britain of people coming from more gun oriented cultures change this? Let's not forget that the police are seeking 2 Somalis and an Asian for this shooting. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #114 November 26, 2005 As you said, Mike... I feel it's a combination of culture and the more limited availability of weapons over there. And as I said, I'm sure there's some officers that would like to be armed, and some that prefer not to be. I'd *LIKE* to see officers have the choice, but obviously that's up to Parliament, not any of us...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,142 #115 November 26, 2005 QuoteApparently avoiding the bad guys and just running from the problem altogether is the European way to do things. Violence as an easy option does not always produce the best outcome. Just take a look at the quagmire in Iraq.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #116 November 26, 2005 QuoteViolence as an easy option does not always produce the best outcome. . True, violence does not solve every problem. Unfortunately, neither does pacifism.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #117 November 26, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately, neither does pacifism no, but effective policing without the need for guns, does (there are always going to be terrible exceptions to any rule, but in general, we don't need, or want, armed police)________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #118 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteUnfortunately, neither does pacifism no, but effective policing without the need for guns, does (there are always going to be terrible exceptions to any rule, but in general, we don't need, or want, armed police) Hopefully, no more unarmed police will be killed by armed criminals...and hopefully the same police will be given the option of being armed if they feel the need...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #119 November 26, 2005 you just don't get it do you? the policewoman who died, and the other who got shot in the shoulder.... COULD NOT HAVE DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT EVEN IF THEY HAD BEEN CARRYING GUNS, what part of that fact don't you undertsand? Most of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, most of the police don't want an armed police force.... understand? In general, you need armed police (because of the state of your country) in general, we don't need armed police (again, because of the state of our country) I've been several times to the states, i felt unsafe a fair few times compared to the amount of times i feel unsafe in Britain________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #120 November 26, 2005 No, YOU don't get it. I'm very sorry the officers were attacked, but if they walked up on a possible burglary site unprepared to encounter the burglars, then they were either careless or ill-trained. An armed officer could possibly have (I say could because I don't know for sure - and neither do you) held the criminals in place until reinforcements could arrive. As it was, the criminals knew that the surviving officer could do nothing of any real effect to stop them. I'm not making demands that the officers be armed. What part of "if they want the option" don't *YOU* understand?? As I've said several times in this thread, the English Parliament will decide that issue, I'm just hoping they use some logic and give the officers the option, *IF THEY CHOOSE*.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #121 November 26, 2005 QuoteMost of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, Why not? Do you not trust your police force? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #122 November 26, 2005 Quote QuoteMost of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, Why not? Do you not trust your police force? - Jim its not a matter of trusting them, yes we trust them... its just that it would cause an escalation of violence. If you're a petty criminal toe rag, and you go and rob a shop or something, if you KNOW the police are going to be carrying guns, you're more likely to carry a gun yourself, and that can lead to possible deaths where there wouldn't have been any in the first place. The average american seems to have the mind set that they will at some point need a gun, we have the mind set that at no point will we need a gun________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #123 November 26, 2005 Quote QuoteMost of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, Why not? Do you not trust your police force? - Jim what do you say to the fact that even the Chief of Police said that we still don't need an armed police force in this country? do you think you know better than him and he's got it wrong? what do you also think to the fact that most police don't want to carry guns either? should they be forced to?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #124 November 26, 2005 You didn't answer my question. Why don't YOU want the police to have guns. They are, after all, your most trusted public servants, are they not? Those who you turn to when the going gets rough? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites artistcalledian 0 #125 November 26, 2005 Quote You didn't answer my question. Why don't YOU want the police to have guns. - Jim yes i did, because i don't want to see the average petty criminal carrying guns to combat every police officer carrying them, my girlfriend might get shot by some tosser who decided to carry a gun just because he felt he needed to because all police are armed, where he probably wouldn't have carried one otherwise________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 5 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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mnealtx 0 #114 November 26, 2005 As you said, Mike... I feel it's a combination of culture and the more limited availability of weapons over there. And as I said, I'm sure there's some officers that would like to be armed, and some that prefer not to be. I'd *LIKE* to see officers have the choice, but obviously that's up to Parliament, not any of us...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,142 #115 November 26, 2005 QuoteApparently avoiding the bad guys and just running from the problem altogether is the European way to do things. Violence as an easy option does not always produce the best outcome. Just take a look at the quagmire in Iraq.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #116 November 26, 2005 QuoteViolence as an easy option does not always produce the best outcome. . True, violence does not solve every problem. Unfortunately, neither does pacifism.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #117 November 26, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately, neither does pacifism no, but effective policing without the need for guns, does (there are always going to be terrible exceptions to any rule, but in general, we don't need, or want, armed police)________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #118 November 26, 2005 QuoteQuoteUnfortunately, neither does pacifism no, but effective policing without the need for guns, does (there are always going to be terrible exceptions to any rule, but in general, we don't need, or want, armed police) Hopefully, no more unarmed police will be killed by armed criminals...and hopefully the same police will be given the option of being armed if they feel the need...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #119 November 26, 2005 you just don't get it do you? the policewoman who died, and the other who got shot in the shoulder.... COULD NOT HAVE DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT EVEN IF THEY HAD BEEN CARRYING GUNS, what part of that fact don't you undertsand? Most of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, most of the police don't want an armed police force.... understand? In general, you need armed police (because of the state of your country) in general, we don't need armed police (again, because of the state of our country) I've been several times to the states, i felt unsafe a fair few times compared to the amount of times i feel unsafe in Britain________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #120 November 26, 2005 No, YOU don't get it. I'm very sorry the officers were attacked, but if they walked up on a possible burglary site unprepared to encounter the burglars, then they were either careless or ill-trained. An armed officer could possibly have (I say could because I don't know for sure - and neither do you) held the criminals in place until reinforcements could arrive. As it was, the criminals knew that the surviving officer could do nothing of any real effect to stop them. I'm not making demands that the officers be armed. What part of "if they want the option" don't *YOU* understand?? As I've said several times in this thread, the English Parliament will decide that issue, I'm just hoping they use some logic and give the officers the option, *IF THEY CHOOSE*.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #121 November 26, 2005 QuoteMost of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, Why not? Do you not trust your police force? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #122 November 26, 2005 Quote QuoteMost of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, Why not? Do you not trust your police force? - Jim its not a matter of trusting them, yes we trust them... its just that it would cause an escalation of violence. If you're a petty criminal toe rag, and you go and rob a shop or something, if you KNOW the police are going to be carrying guns, you're more likely to carry a gun yourself, and that can lead to possible deaths where there wouldn't have been any in the first place. The average american seems to have the mind set that they will at some point need a gun, we have the mind set that at no point will we need a gun________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #123 November 26, 2005 Quote QuoteMost of the public in Britian don't want an armed police force, Why not? Do you not trust your police force? - Jim what do you say to the fact that even the Chief of Police said that we still don't need an armed police force in this country? do you think you know better than him and he's got it wrong? what do you also think to the fact that most police don't want to carry guns either? should they be forced to?________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #124 November 26, 2005 You didn't answer my question. Why don't YOU want the police to have guns. They are, after all, your most trusted public servants, are they not? Those who you turn to when the going gets rough? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artistcalledian 0 #125 November 26, 2005 Quote You didn't answer my question. Why don't YOU want the police to have guns. - Jim yes i did, because i don't want to see the average petty criminal carrying guns to combat every police officer carrying them, my girlfriend might get shot by some tosser who decided to carry a gun just because he felt he needed to because all police are armed, where he probably wouldn't have carried one otherwise________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
