Should "Bobby" get a gun?

[shropshire 0]

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We DONT allow criminals to run around with guns - where would you get that idea from?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

I dont think that there is a massive reaction just when a police officer is shot. There is a similar reaction when any shootings occur here (remember the girls that were shot by a drive by last Christmas).

I guess that it's precisely because these incidents are so rare (thankfully) that they do make such a big splash in the news.

Arming the police (more) will not change that and I cann't see that it will reduce the number of firearms offenses in this country.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[nacmacfeegle 0]

My opinion?
Anyone who points a weapon (or a replia for that matter)at a police officer should get a minimum sentence, say 10 years, anyone who shoots at an officer should get 20, anyone who kills an officer should get life, no chance of an early out in any of the above cases....

There's got to be a better way to protect our police than arming them. Or maybe the jail time could be supplemental to a more widespread arming of the force.

Better protection via stricter punishment float your boat Mike?

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[bodypilot90 0]

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Do more experienced officers learn how to survive getting shot? Or just when to run?

Maybe the french could help there.

[bodypilot90 0]

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There's got to be a better way to protect our police than arming them.

not for the ones that get shot. Armed and well trained is best.

[mr2mk1g 10]

[Quote]But, but, I thought that England didn't have a gun problem since all handguns and semi-auto long guns were confiscated eight years ago. So where are all these crime guns coming from?

Jesus Christ, do we really have to go through this again?

Go read Hansard - seriously, you really do need to go read it. The 1997 legislation was not intended to have any great influence on the level of street crime or numbers of criminals holding illegal firearms in this country.

I didn't agree with the legislation when it passed and I still don't but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the reasons why it was passed. It was passed to prevent terrible atrocities by ordinary law abiding citizens who own guns. That means people like you and me. I disagree with that - I'm not about to go commit a crime - but that's what the law was targeting.

Given an entire quarter of our firearms murders in an single year were committed in one act I do kinda understand why the legislature have wanted to do something about it. It was still a knee jerk reaction however and knee jerk reactions are rarely a great idea.

Given that the 1997 legislation was not intended to have any great influence on the level of street crime or the numbers of criminals holding illegal firearms... it is hardly surprising that the level of street crime or the number of criminals holding illegal firearms has not gone down.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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What's the rationale behind unarmed cops? Seriously, I want to hear a good reason as to why a cop should carry a club why the bad guys carry firearms. Is there a big, hilarious joke in Britain about severely disadvantaging the police? Enlighten me.

Well the primary rationale is that the cops don't want them. I'm personally in favor of letting the police force decide how they run their show. The last survey done on this question showed that 79% of officers were not in favor of being routinely armed. (police federation survey).

The other rationale is that they really don't need them most of the time. Want to know when the last time a police officer was shot dead? It was 2 years ago by a visiting American. The last time before that and you have to look back 10 years. Let me just repeat that. You have to look back TEN YEARS for another fatal police shooting.

Remember also that a large number of our murdered police officers relate to terrorism in Northern Ireland - where our police do carry firearms.

[mr2mk1g 10]

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Should Britain follow the rest of the world and routinely arm it's police officers in the course of their day-to-day duties)?

I dunno. The police force knows what tools they need better than the rest of us. If they ask for guns I'd be in favor of the Home Secretary reviewing the matter. So far they continue to say they don't want or need guns. I guess that's case closed for the time being as far as I'm concerned.

[CornishChris 5]

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Want to know when the last time a police officer was shot dead? It was 2 years ago by a visiting American. The last time before that and you have to look back 10 years. Let me just repeat that. You have to look back TEN YEARS for another fatal police shooting.

Just to put that in perspective if you look at www.leoka.com to see that in the US over the last 10 yrs there has been ana average of over 60 policemen/Law Enforcement officers killed each year.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Jimbo 0]

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Anyone who points a weapon (or a replia for that matter)at a police officer should get a minimum sentence, say 10 years, anyone who shoots at an officer should get 20, anyone who kills an officer should get life, no chance of an early out in any of the above cases....

In the case of the scum who shot and missed, why a lesser sentence for being incompetent? I think it's reasonable to show some compassion to the guy who thought twice and layed down his weapon, but a lesser sentence to the guy who was simply a poor shot? Come on!

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

When I'm Commissar of Scotland, I will bang 'em all up for lengthy periods of turning large rocks into small ones. And that will include the wee fucks who shoot at paramedics, firefighters as well as my friends in the law enforcement business.

Traffic wardens, however, will be fair game, their shooting will be actively encouraged in order to maintain vital militia skills..

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[rehmwa 2]

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Just to put that in perspective if you look at www.leoka.com to see that in the US over the last 10 yrs there has been ana average of over 60 policemen/Law Enforcement officers killed each year.

If it was in perspective, it has to be compared to something in proportion to overall population. That's just a stat.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mr2mk1g 10]

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If it was in perspective, it has to be compared to something in proportion to overall population. That's just a stat.

Well... to put the stats in proportion to overall population then, you have the US which has a population 5 times greater than the UK... so 2 deaths in 10 years x 5(to account for the population size difference) = 10.

For the US the figure over ten years is apparently about 600. 600 vs. 10. That's in proportion to population. I'd do it per year but at an average of 0.2 deaths per year in the UK would probably skew the stats somewhat.

(of course none of this should be taken as passing comment on the causes of this difference - it is merely as an observation as to what the statistical difference is... however imperfect such comparisons are).

[rushmc 23]

You use common sense........

Does that make sense?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[dorbie 0]

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If those two WPCs had been armed by the sounds of it they'd still be shot and possibly their firearms would be out on the streets somewhere.

Yea, you wouldn't want to arm those killers with firearms..... oh wait!

[kallend 2,111]

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There's got to be a better way to protect our police than arming them.

not for the ones that get shot. Armed and well trained is best.

Want to compare statistics of armed police in the USA getting shot vs unarmed police in the UK getting shot?

Go on, I double-dog-dare you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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My opinion?
Anyone who points a weapon (or a replia for that matter)at a police officer should get a minimum sentence, say 10 years, anyone who shoots at an officer should get 20, anyone who kills an officer should get life, no chance of an early out in any of the above cases....

But are cops more valued that citizens (or is it subjects?) in England?

I'm not crazy about radically greater penalties just because the victim is a protected class. From past discussions, it appeared there was a problem with punishing convicts - maybe that could be fixed instead.

In the US we've had some success with increasing penalties for crimes committed with a gun, with larger penalties added if the gun is fired.

[rehmwa 2]

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In the US we've had some success with increasing penalties for crimes committed with a gun, with larger penalties added if the gun is fired.

I wouldn't call that a 'success'. Stealing, murder, etc are crimes whether with a gun knife or fist.

I'm not a big fan of jacking up penalties based on the status of the victim, the criminal or the tools used. Just the crime itself.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

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...it appears that these 2 relatively inexperienced officers should not have been sent to this call.

Calling for ALL officers to be armed is a knee-jerk reaction and NOT supported by many of the officers that have responded in the media.

Do I want to see ALL officers armed - NO,
Do I want to know that there are more armed officers available - YES.

Let's see, first of all the citizens aren't allowed to be armed to defend themselves. Then, your police aren't properly equipped with guns to help the citizens when they're called. So the citizens are left to hang out there to fend for themselves. And meanwhile, while the citizen is facing a brutal thug on their own, while nearby police stand by and do nothing because they don't have the guns they need, they're waiting for some police official to make a decision to send an armed unit. And once that decision is made, and the unit actually arrives, well, maybe the citizen will still be alive!

This is madness. What is even more madness, is that you think this is the appropriate way to provide police response.

You've surrendured to the thugs. Bring down the Union Jack.

[JohnRich 4]

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I completely agree with this part of your post..... not too sure about the rest tho....

Um, that was sarcasm. I thought the idea was so ridiculous that everyone would recognize that. But your response just goes to show that paranoia about guns knows no bounds, and no response is too ridiculous when it comes to presuming that guns are the ultimate evil.

[miked10270 0]

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But are cops more valued that citizens (or is it subjects?) in England?

I'd say that throughout the world an individual is not more valued if he is a cop... But the office itself is valued as a guardian of the law! I think it's already been pointed out that an attack on "the police" is an attack on society rather than an individual.

For example: Telling an old guy to go feck himself is unpleasant... Telling the same guy the same thing when he's sitting as a Judge in court is a very different matter which is reflected in the likely punishment.

It depends on whether you're attacking the individual or the office he/she bears.

Mike.

Incidentally, as a serving police officer I DON'T want a gun, but I'm honestly not sure if that is simply a culture thing based on the great myth of "The Unarmed British Bobby"?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[JohnRich 4]

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I am one of those 'pigs'... BUT I WOULDNT WANT TO BE ARMED.

Just because you have a gun doesn't mean that you have to use it. You can choose to be murdered without defending yourself if you wish. But you don't have any right to make that decision for your fellow officers - if they would feel better doing their job with a gun, then they ought to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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Not in the country that I call home and I'm sure that I'm not alone in that belief. We do NOT need guns, thank you.

It's odd how you presume to speak on behalf of everyone else in your nation.

Why don't you just voice it as your own personal opinion, without trying to represent all 50 million Brits? In fact, there are a great many Brits who disagree with you, and you have no right to speak differently for them.

[JohnRich 4]

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My opinion?
Anyone who points a weapon (or a replia for that matter)at a police officer should get a minimum sentence, say 10 years, anyone who shoots at an officer should get 20, anyone who kills an officer should get life, no chance of an early out in any of the above cases....

There's got to be a better way to protect our police than arming them.

Better protection via stricter punishment float your boat Mike?

It doesn't float mine, because that's after-the-fact, when an officer is already dead. Criminals don't think about legal punishments at the time they are committing a crime, so those are not a deterrent. We already have life sentences for murder, and I haven't seen the elimination of incidents of murder yet...

Rather than punish a thug after he's killed a cop, maybe we should allow the cop to have a fighting chance to save their life? Gosh, call me crazy!

[christelsabine 1]

Hi JR,

as I thought how boring, just another simple gun thread... suddenly, there was you! Doing a fine all-round strike!

JohnRich, you're lighting up every gun thread with your profound comments: Bwahahaha, LMFAO. Indeed.

The highlight of your posts:

You are telling British citizens how their police "properly (??)" should be armed, you tell a Brit not to talk on the behalf of the rest of British citizens. Why don't you stop talking for the entire US in the regards of beeing fully armed?

When were you on the British islands lately?

dudeist skydiver # 3105