Penn Jillette...

[EricTheRed 0]

...Of Penn and Teller on "this I believe"

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557

Of course, I believe that this will convert no-one, but all the same worth reading.

illegible usually

[mr2mk1g 10]

I think his message is spot on... but his first statement is dead wrong. "Atheism is not believing in God." Atheism is professing the non-existence of a God. What he's describing is agnosticism.

[Guest]

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I think his message is spot on... but his first statement is dead wrong. "Atheism is not believing in God." Atheism is professing the non-existence of a God. What he's describing is agnosticism.

I agree. And Jillette's pithy remark, "No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.", has it backward. It has been in the officially atheist states (e.g., Stalin's USSR) where the most suffering has taken place.

I think Jillette wants to put his faith in his fellow man.

That faith is misplaced.

And when there is no ultimate moral authority, it's a short step to a place where anything goes, and there are no rules.

In short, I think that spirituality is one of the few things that stands between modern, enlightened civilization and anarchy.

I know those of you who are learned will spot my use of a word above and conclude that it was the displacement of religious nuttiness and utter superstition that made modern society possible, and you would be right.

However, the Enlightenment progressed beyond its original lofty goals, and that political plaything of the wealthy elite of the late 19th Century (as expressed by Messrs Marx and Ingalls) went on in the 20th Century to threaten to destroy humanity itself in an orgy of anti-spiritual violence.

Fortunately, Penn Jillette is nothing more than a professional stage magician, so his opinion is of no consequnce to me.

If he were a serious academic, I might be inclined to pay more heed to his words.

But since he isn't, I see his remarks as nothing more than the braying of yet another ignorant, spoiled, wealthy entertainment jackass.

DYOC.

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[beowulf 1]

you assume a lot. Morality and religion don't necessarily go hand in hand. Just because some one is religous doesn't mean they are very moral.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Fortunately, Penn Jillette is nothing more than a professional stage magician, so his opinion is of no consequnce to me.

He also has a program on Showtime (Bullshit!) where he has attacked, among many things, creationism, gun control, and evironmentalism.

Very funny, and so far I've seen it to be well researched.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Very funny, and so far I've seen it to be well researched.

I've met Penn quite a few times. He used to be a regualr guest and fill in host for us. The guy is damn smart....about as non-nonsense as you can get.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[waltappel 1]

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I think his message is spot on... but his first statement is dead wrong. "Atheism is not believing in God." Atheism is professing the non-existence of a God. What he's describing is agnosticism.

I agree. And Jillette's pithy remark, "No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.", has it backward. It has been in the officially atheist states (e.g., Stalin's USSR) where the most suffering has taken place.

I think Jillette wants to put his faith in his fellow man.

That faith is misplaced.

And when there is no ultimate moral authority, it's a short step to a place where anything goes, and there are no rules.
.

You sure about that? From what I can tell, the Christian God will welcome the most evil scum on the planet to his party as long as the evil scum profess to have JC as their Lord and Savior. On the other hand, a person can go an entire lifetime without committing a single bad act and roast in hell if they don't accept JC as their Lord and Savior.

That kind of hypocritical God can kiss my ass.

I'm with Penn on this one.

edited to add:
Same deal goes for Islam. I looked up their official list of sins. The only unforgivable sin is not believing in Allah. In other words, Islam is a free pass just like Christianity.

Walt

[kallend 2,113]

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Quote

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I think his message is spot on... but his first statement is dead wrong. "Atheism is not believing in God." Atheism is professing the non-existence of a God. What he's describing is agnosticism.

I agree. And Jillette's pithy remark, "No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.", has it backward. It has been in the officially atheist states (e.g., Stalin's USSR) where the most suffering has taken place.

I think Jillette wants to put his faith in his fellow man.

That faith is misplaced.

And when there is no ultimate moral authority, it's a short step to a place where anything goes, and there are no rules.
.

You sure about that? From what I can tell, the Christian God will welcome the most evil scum on the planet to his party as long as the evil scum profess to have JC as their Lord and Savior. On the other hand, a person can go an entire lifetime without committing a single bad act and roast in hell if they don't accept JC as their Lord and Savior.

That kind of hypocritical God can kiss my ass.

I'm with Penn on this one.

edited to add:
Same deal goes for Islam. I looked up their official list of sins. The only unforgivable sin is not believing in Allah. In other words, Islam is a free pass just like Christianity.

Walt

Well, just suppose for a moment that the REAL purpose of religion is for the elite to control the masses - then a rule like this would make complete sense, wouldn't it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[waltappel 1]

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You sure about that? From what I can tell, the Christian God will welcome the most evil scum on the planet to his party as long as the evil scum profess to have JC as their Lord and Savior. On the other hand, a person can go an entire lifetime without committing a single bad act and roast in hell if they don't accept JC as their Lord and Savior.

That kind of hypocritical God can kiss my ass.

I'm with Penn on this one.

edited to add:
Same deal goes for Islam. I looked up their official list of sins. The only unforgivable sin is not believing in Allah. In other words, Islam is a free pass just like Christianity.

Walt

Well, just suppose for a moment that the REAL purpose of religion is for the elite to control the masses - then a rule like this would make complete sense, wouldn't it?

[jenfly00 0]

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Well, just suppose for a moment that the REAL purpose of religion is for the elite to control the masses - then a rule like this would make complete sense, wouldn't it?

Oh, now you're just being silly.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[jakee 1,566]

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It has been in the officially atheist states (e.g., Stalin's USSR) where the most suffering has taken place.

Yeah, like in Hitlers Deutschland and... Oh shit thats not right.

Whenever a place is Officially atheist or Officialy [insert religion here] it shows that the government of that state is attempting to exercise a huge amount of control over its citizens. That never ends well.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

Indeed.

I didn't see that line.

Mark, you need to read some history, some of it very recent. There's been a lot of suffering in the past in Europe, and these days, imo, a lot of suffering in the Islamic world. All in the name of one religion. In the case of the communist countries, the one religion is no god.

[jenfly00 0]

Open up the gates of the church and let me out of here
Too many people have lied in the name of Christ
For anyone to heed the call
So many people have died in the name of Christ
That I can't believe it all



I'm flying in Winchester cathedral
It's hard enough to drink the wine
The air inside just hangs in delusion
But given time
I'll be fine


From CROSBY, STILLS & NASH - Cathedral

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".