Canadian govt hiring policy

[happythoughts 0]

news clicky

I've seen Canadians. Aren't they generally Caucasian and white to the point of reflective?

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Able-bodied white men seeking a career in Canada's Department of Public Works had best wait awhile before submitting their resumes – the deputy minister of the federal agency has instructed managers to temporarily hire only visible minorities, women, aboriginals and the disabled.

David Marshall yesterday ordered that his edict banning hiring of Caucasian males be distributed throughout the agency by e-mail. The new policy, introduced in response to the department's failure to meet targeted employment-equity goals, will be in place for the next five months, at which time it will be reviewed.

Canada's federal benchmark for hiring visible minorities is one-in-five. Public Works' proportion of female, disabled, aboriginal and non-white new hires fell from one in eight in March to one in twenty in September of this year.

The Verizon-US CIO, S. Keradapir, created a similar policy too.

The CIO said that 50% of all new hires should be minorities/women. He then declared that people in India were "white" for the puposes of that policy.

Through their early retirement program, he then reduced US headcount by thousands and replaced them with Indian workers. Since all the Indian males are "white males", he effectively eliminated any Verizon job in the US in IT for white males.

[Gawain 0]

Hey, at least Canada has free health care....right?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[happythoughts 0]

Someone once postulated that economies should accept a 1% underclass of permanently unemployables. People that should just receive a govt check and give up.

In the US, this is probably people with drug dependencies and the mentally challenged. Of course, that isn't always the case. The Kennedys and Paris Hilton have managed to develop careers.

Perhaps white Canadian males will become the new underclass. Sitting out there on the side of stream fishing in their flannel coats.

[lurch 0]

Jesus wept.
Anybody here ever read Atlas Shrugged?
If she was still alive to see this Ayn Rand's head would explode like a grenade in a bucket of hamburger. We are witnessing corporate suicide in the name of pleasing the almighty god Political Correctness... That, and pleasing the shareholders of today with stellar profits by wiping out the jobs of everyone necessary to make things function tomorrow. No longer does hiring have anything to do with the skills or ability of the applicant to actually DO the job... Just whether they are cheaper and anything but white.
Anyone ever notice how these days racism is still perfectly acceptable in public and as official corporate and social policy just so long as its against whites?
The plant I work at has the most openly racist policy I've ever seen. They absolutely will not hire a white man unless forced to by simple technical necessity. They have methodically attempted to replace every white male with an illegal mexican....scuse me... "undocumented worker". I am one of the last non-hispanic names on the payroll. The problem is the class of people they try to use cannot be trained. Most of these guys are wannabe mex gangster types, 5 year old children in adult bodies who can't stop themselves from pushing buttons and turning knobs at random just to see what they do. Half of them literally need to be toilet trained, and if you object to them peeing in the corners and writing their names and home provinces and gang shit all over the walls, the forklifts the equipment etc, you are "dissing" them and being a fucking gringo from their perspective. The only reason I still have a job is straight out of Rand's works.... I'm one of the last ones left who can DO the job. The discrepancy is so dramatic terminating me would increase the materials waste and scrap by several tons a week. The other so-called operators do setups changeovers and troubleshooting largely by random button pushing, I shit you not. Much like the shakespeare monkeys, they will eventually stumble on some settings which sort of work, but it typically takes days sometimes weeks, produces thousands of pounds of scrap plastic and the resulting product (plastic bottles) looks like shit.
I'm a tech freak. I self-trained on the hardware and programming a long time ago. A typical setup for me requires about 200-250 scrap bottles to be made while fine-tuning the program. Not 250 hoppers full, not 250 cubic yards, not 250 kilos, 250 individual bottles. At 23.5 grams of resin per bottle thats 5.875 kilos scrap. I've come back from vacation to find changeovers done and since theres nobody left who speaks english or understands tech, they simply accepted that they were manufacturing unusable scrap and ran the machine anyway for days or weeks, filling the warehouse with tens of thousands of kilos of unusable scrap bottles. The price of resin has more than doubled this year alone to over 1$/Kg.
The company is literally pouring money into the scrap bins as fast as they can and its ok because at least they aren't hiring white guys. After all its PC, and theoretically the illegals are cheaper, right?
The company is slowly going under. Gee I wonder why.
White men: We're the new niggers!
And just as Rand said, so it is happening at every plant I've worked at in the last 9 years....the motors are stopping...
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[chutem 0]

That crap is hard to believe. Can you imagine if it was the other way around. No minorities will be hired for 5 months only white males? I guess this way it's not discrimination it's affirmative action, eh?
James

[Gravitymaster 0]

Then do something about it.

If you have Verizon Wireless or long distance service, cancel it and send them a letter stating why.

[Gawain 0]

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Then do something about it.

If you have Verizon Wireless or long distance service, cancel it and send them a letter stating why.

Why? Because Verizon's the only company doing it? Keep it in persepctive.

The jobs that Shaygan Karadpir (CIO Vz) has outsourced are the same as what every telco in the US have moved. In fact, the telcos haven't outsourced all that much. The total number of "heads" outsource nationwide, I believe is somewhere under 1 million (may be old info).

You want to see some real outsourcing, look at companies like IBM, HP, and Microsoft have sent offshore.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Why? Because Verizon's the only company doing it? Keep it in persepctive.

The jobs that Shaygan Karadpir (CIO Vz) has outsourced are the same as what every telco in the US have moved. In fact, the telcos haven't outsourced all that much. The total number of "heads" outsource nationwide, I believe is somewhere under 1 million (may be old info).

Except that I was there in Nov of 2003 when they were doing the "pension buyout" program. They wanted 16,000 and got 21,000. On a wall, they put a poster up that listed the names of people in IT taking the package. It had over 40 names of people that I new personally because I started with them back in 1989.

At the same time, they added a headcount of 200 to Vz India. No US jobs were added, but the workload remained the same and the workers were working 60 hrs/week min.

After being told that a DBA would have to work more hours, the DBA told the manager that he put 100 hours in the prev week. The manager said that "he needed to manage his time better". If the person quit (the goal), they would lose their pension opportunity.

All this "cost cutting" was happening during the tenure of Charles Lee, co-CEO of Verizon. When he retired in 2002, he received a retirement package from Verizon worth $29,300,000. In addition he was kept on as chairmen of the board and hired as a consultant.

During 2002, he made over $15 million. That figure doubles if you count bonuses. luxury apartments, and stock grants.

I was recently offered a 15% pay raise to return and declined it.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

news clicky

I've seen Canadians. Aren't they generally Caucasian and white to the point of reflective?

Quote

Able-bodied white men seeking a career in Canada's Department of Public Works had best wait awhile before submitting their resumes – the deputy minister of the federal agency has instructed managers to temporarily hire only visible minorities, women, aboriginals and the disabled.

David Marshall yesterday ordered that his edict banning hiring of Caucasian males be distributed throughout the agency by e-mail. The new policy, introduced in response to the department's failure to meet targeted employment-equity goals, will be in place for the next five months, at which time it will be reviewed.

Canada's federal benchmark for hiring visible minorities is one-in-five. Public Works' proportion of female, disabled, aboriginal and non-white new hires fell from one in eight in March to one in twenty in September of this year.

The Verizon-US CIO, S. Keradapir, created a similar policy too.

The CIO said that 50% of all new hires should be minorities/women. He then declared that people in India were "white" for the puposes of that policy.

Through their early retirement program, he then reduced US headcount by thousands and replaced them with Indian workers. Since all the Indian males are "white males", he effectively eliminated any Verizon job in the US in IT for white males.

Good thing they didn't do it to blacks--then they would be racists!

Walt

[Gawain 0]

I'm an ex-VZ employee too, 10 years, ending at the formr GTECC in SoCal. I worked at Corporate in Stamford, and Norwalk. Tampa, Atlanta, NorCal, Portland, and CA.

I remember Chuck and his money. His actual salary was "only" $1M (given the size of the company, etc). The $15M year included his bonus once the merger was fully closed (Siedenberg made a bit more).

I hated seeing the degeneration of what was an awesome company, GTE, become "verizonized" by the RBOC mentality of NYC.

Good job on staying away from that outfit. The wireless side of the house was much more tolerable during the time I was there.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I've seen Canadians. Aren't they generally Caucasian and white to the point of reflective?

That's funny...obviously haven't ever been to the Toronto or Vancouver area....have you...

[rehmwa 2]

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I've seen Canadians. Aren't they generally Caucasian and white to the point of reflective?

That's funny...obviously haven't ever been to the Toronto or Vancouver area....have you...

As a Canadian, it would be very interesting in what you think of the hiring policy. Is it real? What's your thoughts?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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As a Canadian, it would be very interesting in what you think of the hiring policy. Is it real? What's your thoughts?

I think that we are missing a lot of the back ground in that little snippet...if it went just like that, then it isn't very smart.

I do believe that specially in provincial and federal governments, the workforce should be a reflection of the population. It is naturally easy to hire people you are comfortable with, so sometimes rules are needed to break that barrier.

When it comes to the lower level jobs at Public Works, qualifications aren't the biggest concern.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I think any hiring policy where the best candidate is not chosen is not a good policy no matter where you are. Contrary to what many of you think, things are fucked up all over the place. Many skilled immigrants in Canada are not allowed to work in the fields of their expertise due to the fact that many Canadian companies do not recognize their foreign credentials. In some cases this may be a valid argument but in many cases it's clearly racism at work. So some of these skilled immigrants have decided to return to their own countries or go somewhere else. But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me everything in your beloved US of A is all rosy as well. I say life as we know it, used to know it or wish to know it by in North America and Europe is on the decline and there's not much we can do about it as long as corporations put the almighty dollar above everything else and the Walmart culture is allowed to thrive. Manufacturing has already decided to checkout into more lucrative environments such as China and Inda and technology is quickly following it on it's heals. So what's left for us to do here? Low paying service jobs? Things are fucked up everywhere you look. Canada, the US of A and Europe are all on a decline.

Oh course the federal government here in Canada is a corrupt bunch of SOBs so this hiring policy doesn't surprise me. And what blows me away is that even though the proof of this corruption is there in front of all Canadians noses to see, too many Canadians are afraid to try another government and continue to vote for the same status quo election after election. We're going to have another election very soon and even though my vote will be for a different political party, my money is on another minor liberal government because those morons in Ontario who have all the political power ... sorry to insult you ... no actually I'm not sorry ... continue to vote for this same corrupt liberal political party where entitlement and privilege for themselves is more important than the good of the rest of the country. This time around I can't fault K-becers for losing their interest in Canadian federation.

Dang is there an island I can move to to get away from all this crap? Hmmm ... Australian and New Zealand are islands aren't they?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I agree, I can't believe people in Canada are even considering voting Liberal after all that has been going on. Unfortunately, the Conservatives are notdoing themselves any favours. If they would get rid of Harper and run Peter MacKay instead, they would stand a much better chance....

People in most jobs do not get hired for having the best credentials....usually things like fitting into the team, boss' perception, recruiter's comfort zone etc, play a much larger role than just qualifications. The speech of hiring the best person is great, but not very realiztic. Let me give you an example....

I am the General Manager of one of the biggest malls in Canada, in one of the most multicultural environments in Toronto. My customer base comes from many, many different ethnicities. I have a security department comprised of roughly 30 staff members.

Let's say all the best candidates turn out to be caucasian males. So now I am saddled with 30 white men in a security department dealing with mostly visible minorities a situation that is a recipe for disaster.....

[CanuckInUSA 0]

So you're telling me that you're voting Liberal because you don't like Harper and that you like the corrupt status quo? Or is your vote going to go for the NDP which has absolutely no chance at all? Well at least if you do vote for the NDP it won't be a vote for Liberals. Oh and I thought the parlamentary system didn't put as much emphasis on a single leader like a republic political system does? So why all this fear over one man? It's not like he's going to send us off to war because his god told him to invade a country in his sleep.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rehmwa 2]

Four posts in a row without a put down to US politics or politicians, - that's a new record for you, I thought Dekker would go that route first, though (I was wrong, he was on topic and serious - sorry Dekker for thinking that). Pretty interesting back-and-forth you guys are having though up to that.

The comment that the US, Canada, western europe, etc are politically driving ourselves into a decline strikes a bit close to home.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

uhmmm....NO

I'll be voting conservative, just like the last federal election, I said they could do themselves a favour and run MacKay and do better...didn't say that meant I wouldn't vote for them....assumptions......

In stead of voting party line, I think it is important to look at what the country or province needs. I have no issue with voting liberal one election and voting conservative another election.

Many a voter here will say that all politicians are crooks and therefore might as well vote liberal again, because the same would happen under the conservatives. I agree with them to a certain point.

If you keep the same group of people in power for a long time, they start to feel invincable. When that happens, fraud and theft starts to occur. This doesn't only happen in politics, it happens on a large scale in business as well. Hence, it is important that regardless of personal opinions and feeling, the group in power changes so these things don't happen.

I voted Liberal in the last provincial election, cause it was time for a chance.....I voted conservative in the last federal election and will do the same this time around.

[IanHarrop 43]

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If they would get rid of Harper and run Peter MacKay instead, they would stand a much better chance....

I agree!!!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[CanuckInUSA 0]

This will be an interesting election because I suspect there will be some people who have always voted Liberal who will vote some other way. For the center/socialists out there, then the NDP will be their option (and yes the NDP could get historically high popular votes for themselves) and of course those on the center/right might vote for the PCs (and K-bec will get its huge share of Bloc voters). So we shall see ... I hope it's a majority government one way or another, but I'm still predicting another minority Liberal government because the people of Ontario have pretty much always voted for the Libs and all the political power in Canada is in Ontario and Quebec despite the fact that the west finances more than it's fair share in Canada. The east has been fucking over the west ever since confederation and why should this ever change?

Oh and to stay on topic, this hiring policy is bullshit. But it's not the first time that nasty word of "affirmative action" has been used to appease those in desperate need of political correctness.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[IanHarrop 43]

Surprise - they back tracked on this one!

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2005/11/22/1317320-sun.html

--
Feds red-faced over no-white-males hiring policy

An angry backlash over a hiring policy some denounced as discriminatory has prompted the Department of Public Works to rescind a "special measure" that excluded white men from applying for jobs.

Deputy minister David Marshall had the change of heart after receiving a rash of calls furious about a policy that limited new recruits to women, aboriginals, visible minorities and people with disabilities -- anyone except white men.

"While the measure proposed last week was short-term and not intended to be a ban on hiring individuals from non-designated groups, it could well lead to this impression," Marshall said in a new memo circulated to managers yesterday. "As such, I am rescinding this measure immediately. Please accept my apologies."

Marshall said his senior team remains committed to achieving Embracing Change benchmarks. He plans to work with other officials to develop a long-term strategy that ensures his department is "representative and inclusive."

The no-white-male policy, outlined in an internal memo Friday, was denounced as "racist" and "discriminatory" for rejecting candidates based on sex and skin colour. The policy was to be in place for all external recruits until March 31, 2006, when it was to be reviewed.

Public Works spokesman Pierre Teotonio said the department received "quite a few calls" of concern since the policy was reported on the weekend.

"It was misconstrued by some as being non-inclusive and this was not the intention," he said. "So as a result of the concern expressed in this regard, the department is rescinding this special measure."

kathleen.harris@tor.sunpub.com

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[rehmwa 2]

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Surprise - they back tracked on this one!

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2005/11/22/1317320-sun.html

Congrats to Canada - it would have taken much longer and with much public outrage in the US to reverse the original policy. In fact, here, the original policy would have been hailed as a great thing. Sorry, I don't mean to compare, but this one our northern neighbors did better than we would have if placed in a similar position.

Edit: this struck funny

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Pierre Teotonio said ....."It was misconstrued by some as being non-inclusive" he said.

I'd like to call bullshit, it was correctly interpreted "as non-inclusive" and they got caught. But politicians are the same everywhere.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[IanHarrop 43]

Quote

Quote

Surprise - they back tracked on this one!

http://ottsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2005/11/22/1317320-sun.html

Congrats to Canada - it would have taken much longer and with much public outrage in the US to reverse the original policy. In fact, here, the original policy would have been hailed as a great thing. Sorry, I don't mean to compare, but this one our northern neighbors did better than we would have if placed in a similar position.

Edit: this struck funny

Quote

Pierre Teotonio said ....."It was misconstrued by some as being non-inclusive" he said.

I'd like to call bullshit, it was correctly interpreted "as non-inclusive" and they got caught. But politicians are the same everywhere.

In Canada government back tracking is a nation wide activity. Our politicians have no idea what they're doing and no identifiable plan so they do a lot of shit and what doesn't get screamed at they keep.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[rehmwa 2]

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In Canada government back tracking is a nation wide activity. Our politicians have no idea what they're doing and no identifiable plan so they do a lot of shit and what doesn't get screamed at they keep.

We could use a measure of that here - from the national level (both parties) all the way down to the local level in some places.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants