Hawkish Democrat Takes Jab at Chickenhawk DICK

[masterblaster72 0]

Here

I don't quite agree with his call for an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. But I do respect where the man is coming from and I especially like his jab at DICK.

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Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: "I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."

!!

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[kallend 2,148]

Deep background:

www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/chickenhawk_headquarters/

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

With due respect to Murtha's service, it does not lend unconditional credibility to his views. I've said it before that one does not need military service to be qualified for a position of leadership. Nor does military service automatically qualify one for leadership. If one wants to use it on their resume, that's fine, but it shouldn't be the Holy Grail (and as it happens, it isn't since most of those in national political service, didn't serve).

Rep. Murtha has been in Congress since 1974. He's been pretty much a nobody until now, and his views, which do not break new ground, only put him in the same camp as Moore and Kusinich.

His service does not reflect what the current officers and senior enlisted are dealing with either. This effort is not being micro-managed by the politicians as it was in his day. It's apples and oranges.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,118]

>only put him in the same camp as Moore and Kusinich.

My congratulations on getting the White House talking points in record time.

>His service does not reflect what the current officers and
>senior enlisted are dealing with either.

However, it is FAR more applicable to this conflict than Bush's service was. His experience makes him better able to understand what's going on in Iraq than most senators.

[rushmc 23]

Nothing new here. He called Iraq todays vietnam and called for the troops to leave back in May of 2004.

Point being??? He never was a hawk

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,148]

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With due respect to Murtha's service, it does not lend unconditional credibility to his views. I've said it before that one does not need military service to be qualified for a position of leadership. Nor does military service automatically qualify one for leadership. If one wants to use it on their resume, that's fine, but it shouldn't be the Holy Grail (and as it happens, it isn't since most of those in national political service, didn't serve).
.

Funny we never heard that argument from the right when Clinton was president. Just the reverse, in fact. As you said, it's apples and oranges.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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With due respect to Murtha's service, it does not lend unconditional credibility to his views. I've said it before that one does not need military service to be qualified for a position of leadership. Nor does military service automatically qualify one for leadership. If one wants to use it on their resume, that's fine, but it shouldn't be the Holy Grail (and as it happens, it isn't since most of those in national political service, didn't serve).
.

Funny we never heard that argument from the right when Clinton was president. Just the reverse, in fact. As you said, it's apples and oranges.

I recall most of the argument from the "right" as being more about how President Clinton left the country to avoid service. That amplified his "non-service". I don't think of that often.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gravitymaster 0]

I'm sure we will see an increase in terrorist attcks because of people like Murtha. Or haven't you noticed the pattern yet.

http://www.cnn.com/

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Suicide bombers killed dozens of people today in Baghdad and near the Iranian border in Khanaqin. The blasts came a day after Rep. John Murtha, a Democratic hawk on defense issues, sparked a firestorm of debate when he called for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

and from CNN of all sources.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I'm sure we will see an increase in terrorist attcks because of people like Murtha. Or haven't you noticed the pattern yet.

http://www.cnn.com/

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Suicide bombers killed dozens of people today in Baghdad and near the Iranian border in Khanaqin. The blasts came a day after Rep. John Murtha, a Democratic hawk on defense issues, sparked a firestorm of debate when he called for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

and from CNN of all sources.

Yup. That is exactly why they attacked. They were just waiting for Murtha to tell them to.

Dear God I hope this was facetious.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,118]

>Or haven't you noticed the pattern yet.

A clearer pattern seems to be that terrorist attacks follow Bush speeches. This has been about the 20th big terrorist attack in Iraq since 2003, and this is the first time Murtha has spoken out like this. Bush has been giving speeches the whole time.

But don't let that stop you. It's a great bash. "Murtha is killing our troops!" Let us know how that works for you.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I'm sure we will see an increase in terrorist attcks because of people like Murtha. Or haven't you noticed the pattern yet.

http://www.cnn.com/

Quote

Suicide bombers killed dozens of people today in Baghdad and near the Iranian border in Khanaqin. The blasts came a day after Rep. John Murtha, a Democratic hawk on defense issues, sparked a firestorm of debate when he called for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq.

and from CNN of all sources.

Yup. That is exactly why they attacked. They were just waiting for Murtha to tell them to.

Dear God I hope this was facetious.

Call it what you like. You think CNN is kidding?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Or haven't you noticed the pattern yet.

A clearer pattern seems to be that terrorist attacks follow Bush speeches. This has been about the 20th big terrorist attack in Iraq since 2003, and this is the first time Murtha has spoken out like this. Bush has been giving speeches the whole time.

But don't let that stop you. It's a great bash. "Murtha is killing our troops!" Let us know how that works for you.

One would have to be in a major state of denial to not think OBL and Zarqawi pay attention to the US and world press. One would have to be extremely naive to be unable to recognize the best way to get the US out of Iraq is to step up attacks in conjunction to speeches like Murthas. That's what any smart terrorist would do.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Call it what you like. You think CNN is kidding?

No, I think they connected to two to make the bombing seem even worse with NO factual connection. Sloppy and dishonest reporting.

This is totally bullshit. How exactly do you explain every other suicide bomber then? What a crock of shit.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,118]

>One would have to be in a major state of denial to not think OBL
>and Zarqawi pay attention to the US and world press.

Indeed they do. And every time Bush makes a speech about how there will be no timetable for withdrawal, OBL does a little happy dance - because now the people who he tells "the US is a permanent occupying force!" will believe him a little more, and send their sons to him to be fitted for their explosives. And every time Cheney declares that there will be no anti-torture legislation, he can convince another dozen Iraqis that the US is an evil torturing villian. And every time Rumsfeld goes on about how long the war will be, he can convince more Iraqis to follow him to 'oust the infidel.'

>One would have to be extremely naive to be unable to recognize
>the best way to get the US out of Iraq is to step up attacks in
>conjunction to speeches like Murthas.

Many, many Iraqis want the US out of Iraq. If you think all Iraqis are throwing flowers at us, and only Al Qaeda wants us out, you're living in a very contrived fantasy world. If some Iraqi is thinking about supporting Bin Laden, and he hears that the US may soon be pulling out, what's he going to think?

a) Gee, now that they may be pulling out, perhaps I will go and blow myself up for no good reason!

b) Perhaps I will wait and see if we have achieved our goal before blowing myself to bits.

I know you want to believe a). Good luck with that.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Call it what you like. You think CNN is kidding?

No, I think they connected to two to make the bombing seem even worse with NO factual connection. Sloppy and dishonest reporting.

This is totally bullshit. How exactly do you explain every other suicide bomber then? What a crock of shit.

If OBL and Zarqawi appeared on TV together holding hands and announced this bombing was in response to Muthas speech, you'd call it bullshit.

[billvon 3,118]

>If OBL and Zarqawi appeared on TV together holding hands and
>announced this bombing was in response to Muthas speech, you'd
> call it bullshit.

Well heck, if Bush himself announced "OK, I was wrong about the war," you'd call it bullshit.

[Gravitymaster 0]

What you fail to understand is this war will be won or lost on the will of the American people. Just like Vietnam was. You would have to be living in a major state of denial to not understand that OBL and Zarqawi have studied the lessons of Vietnam.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>If OBL and Zarqawi appeared on TV together holding hands and
>announced this bombing was in response to Muthas speech, you'd
> call it bullshit.

Well heck, if Bush himself announced "OK, I was wrong about the war," you'd call it bullshit.

Since we are speculating, if US Forces uncovered a large cache of VX, Anthrax etc inside Iraq, you'd say Bush planted them. Isn't this fun?

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Call it what you like. You think CNN is kidding?

No, I think they connected to two to make the bombing seem even worse with NO factual connection. Sloppy and dishonest reporting.

This is totally bullshit. How exactly do you explain every other suicide bomber then? What a crock of shit.

If OBL and Zarqawi appeared on TV together holding hands and announced this bombing was in response to Muthas speech, you'd call it bullshit.

No, what I call bullshit is the CNN connection of the two and calling it journalism. That is opinion, pure and simple.

And if Zarqawi appears on TV and says, "I bombed you beacause of Murtha" I will rescind my statement. DO not presume to tell me what I think thank you very much. But somehow I doubt that would happen since the insurgency has been ongoing for quite some time now.

You veiled and not so veiled insinuations of my stupidty is very clever. Whatever makes you feel good.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[JohnRich 4]

It's time for the Democrats to put up or shut up:

House Republicans, sensing an opportunity for political advantage, maneuvered for a quick vote and swift rejection Friday of a Democratic lawmaker's call for an immediate troop withdrawal from Iraq.

"We want to make sure that we support our troops that are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill. "We will not retreat."

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi had no immediate reaction to the planned vote.

The GOP leadership decided to act little more than 24 hours after Rep. Jack Murtha, a hawkish Democrat with close ties to the military, said the time had come to pull out the troops. By forcing the issue to a vote, Republicans placed many Democrats in a politically unappealing position - whether to side with Murtha and expose themselves to attacks from the White House and congressional Republicans, or whether to oppose him and risk angering the voters that polls show want an end to the conflict...

Full Story

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You veiled and not so veiled insinuations of my stupidty is very clever. Whatever makes you feel good.

I apologize if that's the way you took it. I didn't mean it that way.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Sadly, this isn't going to shut then up. Makes you wonder if Murthu's comments weren't just a set up by the GOP.

[Gawain 0]

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>only put him in the same camp as Moore and Kusinich.

My congratulations on getting the White House talking points in record time.

What the hell does that mean? It's a valid comparison. Sh*t, at least Kusinich is consistent. All you can say is, "good talking points". Next time, you can just say "Bush lied" it'll take less time okay?

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>His service does not reflect what the current officers and
>senior enlisted are dealing with either.

However, it is FAR more applicable to this conflict than Bush's service was. His experience makes him better able to understand what's going on in Iraq than most senators.

I disagree. Officers develop and command off doctrine. Execution and adaptation is done the by the "grunts" and enlisted personnel. I don't know how many times Murtha has been to Iraq (to my knowledge, he hasn't), but his experience does not give him any perceptable advantage over Iraq as it does how the military works.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 3,118]

>What the hell does that mean?

It means you're fast! That's s compliment. Scott McClellan compares him to Moore, you compare him to Moorea few hours later.

>It's a valid comparison.

No it's not. Moore is a moviemaker who stands to make a lot of money on his extreme opinions. Murtha is a veteran who has seen this for real, and has strong opinions on the subject - for which he will be crucified by the majority party.

But it's a great slam, and I applaud you for rapidly copying it.

[rushmc 23]

My opinion is that they don't "think".......they "feel"

By the way, you are right on.

The media in the east (what ever that tv staition is)had that senators statement as the lead. As soon as they know we are going to leave (before we win) billvon is right, they will stop bombing. Then, after we leave they will extend thier crazy beliefs, take over the country and leave a people that had hope when we were there, with no hope at all and a bitter tast in thier mouths

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln