Hawkins121 0 #126 March 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteI am sorry but if someone protested at one of my fellow Marines funeral then I would be facing more then a battery charge. They have no f#*king right to be protesting at a funeral. These people need to be arrested on spot and shot, that way we can go protest at theirs and see how their family likes it. What is this country coming to lately. Yes you have the right to protest and by all means exercise that right but there is a time an place to do it and a funeral is not one of them. Keep in mind that I would not actually start anything with them that just how I feel about what they are doing. So when you swore to defend the Constitution, you didn't really mean it. this statement is comical to me... It seems most people dont realize after you are in that sort of brotherhood.. Doing extraordinary things in shitty situations..that it becomes more about the guys around you than the rules or the establishment. Which is truly a great thing... The average person will never know that sort of bond. He can defend the constitution and answer to it at the same time... there is no hypocrisy here. on a personal note.. Fuck yeah I'd do some jail time to hurt the people that were disrespecting my brother in arms or family member.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #127 March 7, 2006 It is now illegal to protest within so many feet on a funeral in Oklahoma. I "think" it is 500 feet, but I'm not sure. As Texan, I can't believe I'm saying this ... "Way to go OK!" steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #128 March 7, 2006 >that it becomes more about the guys around you than the rules or the establishment. Some of the people who I most respect are people who are able to overcome the pressure of their buddies and do what is right instead of what is popular, or what feels good to do. What feels right and what IS right are not always the same thing. It can feel downright shitty to defend someone you despise - but if you truly believe in the principles this country was founded on, that's precisely what you are sometimes called to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #129 March 7, 2006 Quote>that it becomes more about the guys around you than the rules or the establishment. Some of the people who I most respect are people who are able to overcome the pressure of their buddies and do what is right instead of what is popular, or what feels good to do. What feels right and what IS right are not always the same thing. It can feel downright shitty to defend someone you despise - but if you truly believe in the principles this country was founded on, that's precisely what you are sometimes called to do. I wasnt explaining an after party of a high school football game. Its not about peer pressure.. Its about honor... I guess this goes back to most people not understanding the bond. Its cool. I wont try to explain any further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #130 March 7, 2006 Amen Brother Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #131 March 7, 2006 >Its not about peer pressure.. Its about honor... I guess this >goes back to most people not understanding the bond. Call it whatever you like. A soldier who speaks up about his comrades torturing an Iraqi boy because it's wrong is a man of honor; a soldier who covers up such torture so his buddies don't get in trouble is as bad as they are. Using "honor" to defend such actions removes all meaning from that word. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #132 March 7, 2006 Quote>Its not about peer pressure.. Its about honor... I guess this >goes back to most people not understanding the bond. Call it whatever you like. A soldier who speaks up about his comrades torturing an Iraqi boy because it's wrong is a man of honor; a soldier who covers up such torture so his buddies don't get in trouble is as bad as they are. Using "honor" to defend such actions removes all meaning from that word. Thats tough because unfortunately loyalty to comrades and honor are really only instilled in tight knit units... BUT, If one of my buddies were involved in torturing an enemy of the united states or a soldier that may have hurt one of my buddies or innocent people then there is no way in hell I would give him or them up just to get raped by the media so they can sell advertising. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #133 March 7, 2006 If my buddy flipped out and killed a bunch of people for no reason... well, its time for an intervention... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #134 March 7, 2006 >If one of my buddies were involved in torturing an enemy of >the united states or a soldier that may have hurt one of my buddies > or innocent people then there is no way in hell I would give him up . . . That's your call. I respect the hell out of people who can put what's right above their buddies, even when it's very hard to do so. Those people are the reason we have the rights we do today. Sadly, they are rare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #135 March 7, 2006 Quote>If one of my buddies were involved in torturing an enemy of >the united states or a soldier that may have hurt one of my buddies > or innocent people then there is no way in hell I would give him up . . . That's your call. I respect the hell out of people who can put what's right above their buddies, even when it's very hard to do so. Those people are the reason we have the rights we do today. Sadly, they are rare. I disagree... The hard man... The killing man is the reason you have rights today and will continue to have those rights. That mentality is respectable but it belongs in church or a youth development program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #136 March 7, 2006 I respect your view Bill.. We just differ. I didnt mean to hijack the thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #137 March 7, 2006 >The killing man is the reason you have rights today . . . Both have their place. The man willing to put his principles above all else is why we have a Constitution, why we have civil rights, why we can worship the way we choose. The 'killing man' as you put it is why we _still_ have those rights. And, rarely, we get someone who is both. Like I said before, they have my utmost respect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #138 March 7, 2006 Quote>The killing man is the reason you have rights today . . . Both have their place. The man willing to put his principles above all else is why we have a Constitution, why we have civil rights, why we can worship the way we choose. The 'killing man' as you put it is why we _still_ have those rights. And, rarely, we get someone who is both. Like I said before, they have my utmost respect. Bill....the only way you will ever truly know is to have been there and worn the uniform. Until then its just guesswork on your part as to what you will do or would have done. I would never run someone down that has not served....its necessary.....but it aint the Boy Scouts. bozo bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #139 March 7, 2006 QuoteIf my buddy flipped out and killed a bunch of people for no reason... well, its time for an intervention... No, the time for intervention was earlier. Now innocent people are dead because you took a pass on honor.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #140 March 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteIf my buddy flipped out and killed a bunch of people for no reason... well, its time for an intervention... No, the time for intervention was earlier. Now innocent people are dead because you took a pass on honor. ah and out come the bleeding hearts... They even come out when there is no reason to... Peta needs you. Leave me alone. It was a joke you know. But as long as we are on the subject.. If one of the innocents were you... ah nevermind.. You get the picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #141 March 7, 2006 wow Morality and Honor both preached today by you, who may hever never served, nor can seem to understand(I hope you can) what is truly being stated. See what were all saying Jen?.... if you support free speach, don't bitch(but you can disagree) when it isn't your viewpoint being supported. I like many others served my country, believe in the constitution, and swore to defend it for the rest of our lives. But we also have the right to not agree, and I would never suggest that someone can't say something they wish, without fear. I do feel that if something is said, try to understand it's true meaning, sometimes it even requires me to re-read things. I do think that when verbal assaults and lies harm so many others in reality, that others do reserve a right to put a stop to it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #142 March 7, 2006 QuoteI do think that when verbal assaults and lies harm so many others in reality, that others do reserve a right to put a stop to it. In other words, free speech means you can say anything you like until a veteran disagrees with you. Yes, now that you mention it I DO remember reading that in the constitution. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkins121 0 #143 March 7, 2006 QuoteQuoteI do think that when verbal assaults and lies harm so many others in reality, that others do reserve a right to put a stop to it. In other words, free speech means you can say anything you like until a veteran disagrees with you. Yes, now that you mention it I DO remember reading that in the constitution. its more like: Free speech means you can say anything you like until you protest at a veterans funeral and get all of your limbs broken by pissed off veterans who just lost a good friend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #144 March 8, 2006 True, believers in what they are doing while in uniform will show the discipline they are known for and stand quietly with their fallen brothers or sisters family. They will not act in a violent manner, they will stand in front of, in between and amongst the enemy of proper decorum and show proper respect for the Country, Constitution and poeple they swore to protect. They will honor the fallen with their solidarity. When an enemy is declared (foreign or domestic) then, and only then, will they do those acts of violence that have been (jokingly of course) discribed. I hate Phelps and his ass trash family. I hate that he is using the very freedom my brothers in arms and all their brothers and sisters before them have given him to speak the way he does. But, it is part of why I love this home of mine, I can speak and do so with out worry of horrible reprisal like history has shown. So like Billvon, Briguy and others, I defend his right to speak but not what he speaks. (Of course I just may be "brainwashed" into thinking this way by the ACLU)An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #145 March 8, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI do think that when verbal assaults and lies harm so many others in reality, that others do reserve a right to put a stop to it. In other words, free speech means you can say anything you like until a veteran disagrees with you. Yes, now that you mention it I DO remember reading that in the constitution. its more like: Free speech means you can say anything you like until you protest at a veterans funeral and get all of your limbs broken by pissed off veterans who just lost a good friend. Welcome to life my friend, I know this may be very hard for people to accept , but veterans for better or worse, are people that have been chnged irrevocably... I know many of you will never be able to understand and it's not that you aren't very smart, I know you are... but it's something that we may not be able to ever express in words, most people can't understand unless you have to have lived it... I am glad that you didn't have to.... that's because somebody else did Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #146 March 8, 2006 Warped, Being veterans does not give "US" the right to hold any ones right to free speach for ransom. Like it or not, it is ALL protected, we SWORE to it! And WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK TOO! Just do it calm and calculated, it will work much better than having to pay in a civil court (Phelps doesn't care much about the criminal stuff he gets his money from the winnings of his many, many civil cases. Did ya notice his Kids are lawyers?)An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #147 March 8, 2006 I know it's just like the last time you and I spoke about this on here... that's all the more reason this rehashed thread should go away I didn't say the way I felt was perfect... I wish I could in many cases turn the other cheek Yeah I did notice that...I also think maybe it's all just a scheme of one sort or another for crooked lawyers a family of them in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #148 March 8, 2006 Quotewow Morality and Honor both preached today by you, If you could only see how the two are connected, you would be a better person and a better American. It also explains why your oath means so little.----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #149 March 8, 2006 Quotethis statement is comical to me... It seems most people dont realize after you are in that sort of brotherhood.. Doing extraordinary things in shitty situations..that it becomes more about the guys around you than the rules or the establishment. Which is truly a great thing... The average person will never know that sort of bond. I appreciate your candor. I think we should encourage more below average people to express themselves. I suppose when the career options are the military or Burger King, the former is probably the best choice. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #150 March 8, 2006 Quote... I suppose when the career options are the military or Burger King, the former is probably the best choice. Ehm... There are few people that make me feel unsafe by working at Burger King. The same is not true for the military. "Look out, he's got a spatula!" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "Who the hell gave that guy a gun to fire?!?" HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
