President Bush Fires Back Against Critics

[Gravitymaster 0]

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"The people you liberate will witness the honorable and decent spirit of the American military. In this conflict, America faces an enemy who has no regard for conventions of war or rules of morality". =Can you say "Abu Garub". Gimme a break w/ all your killin war machine fasist nazi corparate scum mother fuckers. No offense to all the honest ,decent hardworking military people out there that are putting their life on the line. I come from a military family. This war and administration has got me SMOKIN MAD PISSED Pardon the spellin too. Vent over

So sad that hate, ignorance, and poor media coverage of the war blinds you to all the positive things our soldiers do that is much appreciated by the majority of Iraqis.

[rushmc 23]

Plain and simple. The investigation and over 200 CIA agents interviewed indcated NO PRESSURE!!!

Dam simple huh

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Oh, and Wilsons claims about the yellow cake were completely debucked by both Rep and Dem senators looking into his report. They stated the Wilsons report (verbal) nothing written, supported the earlier claims that Iraq was trying to get yellow cake.

Again, you ane not on this planet if you have missed (or chosen to miss) all this info

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Yes, and in some cases the sentate gets more detail when the president only get a summary!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Look it up. The senate intell commitee gets as much or more detail at time. Reid even stated as much

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Hmmm, I did not know that serving your country meant lying about, and rewriting the history of the how we got to war.

You know, one may not agree with how the war is being run or handled. But saying the Prez manipulated intell to get us into a war is a flat out lie!!! And anybody that looks past the hatred of GWB can eaisly see that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SudsyFist 0]

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But saying the Prez manipulated intell to get us into a war is a flat out lie!!!

Unless you're very, very close to the situation, you cannot know this with *any* level of certainty, much less to describe it with, "flat out." Just remember what kind of subject it is with which we're dealing.

You can say, "Based on such-and-such info, it seems that this," and be much less vulnerable to being wrong.

[rushmc 23]

OK, lets go with your premise. Would is be the same for those that continue to say GWB mislead and lied to get us into war?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Or, did he go with the same assumptions from the same intell that the Clintons, the UN, or multiple senators used. And all of this was being stated BEFORE GWB was even in office.

So, saying that GBW lied or manipulted intel is a crock argument

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SudsyFist 0]

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OK, lets go with your premise. Would is be the same for those that continue to say GWB mislead and lied to get us into war?

To declare that absolutely is absolutely the same. Unless you're privvy, you don't know for sure, either way.

Agreed.

[kallend 2,148]

This administration lies and lies, and when caught out, lies some more.

"You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two.* And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them." GWB, May 31, 2003


"The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons, part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987."Sunday Observer, June 8, 2003


We know where they are, they are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north of that,' he said." --Rumsfeld, March 31, 2003
"No one ever said that we knew precisely where all of these agents were, where they were stored," C. Rice on NBC's "Meet the Press." --Sunday, June 8, 2003



"I am sure that Colin Powell speaks on the basis of notes given to him, but this is not correct. Our inspectors have not seen that the Iraqis were moving anything away from the sites that we are visiting," Hans Blix --Reuters.


"My jobs and growth plan would reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax." GWB, April 2003

That turned out not to be true. According to the nonprofit Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, an unspecified number of low- and middle-income families received no tax cut at all because they'd been excluded from an expansion of the child-care tax.

"45 percent of all of the dividend income goes to people with $50,000-or-less incomes, family incomes. Nearly three-quarters of it goes to families with $100,000 or less family income." Karl Rove



In fact, those earning less than $50,000 get 14.7 percent of dividend income, and those earning less than $100,000 get 32.7 percent, according to a Brookings Institution/Urban Institute analysis. The former would get 6.8 percent of the benefit of Bush's dividend plan, while the latter would get 20.9 percent.

"The deficit will be small and short lived", GWB, SOTU 2002

BWAHAHAHAHA

"Social Security is our number one priority", GWB convention speech 2000
So where's the beef?

Here's a good series of lies

"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq." Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (09.19.02)



"This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined." President Bush (09.26.02)



"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency. . . . It has developed weapons of mass death" President Bush (10.02.02)



"There's a grave threat in Iraq. There just is." President Bush (10.02.03)



"There are many dangers in the world; the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. President Bush (10.07.02)



"The Iraqi regime is a serious and growing threat to peace." President Bush (10.16.02)



"There is a real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to America in the form of Saddam Hussein." President Bush (10.28.02)



"I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq." President Bush (11.01.02)



"Today the world is...uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq." President Bush (11.01.02)



"The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands." President Bush (11.23.02)


In January 2003, White House Communications Director Dan Bartlett, when asked “is Saddam an imminent threat to U.S. interests”; he replied “Well, of course he is.”

In February 2003, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said “[t]his is about [an] imminent threat.”



In May 2003, Ari Fleisher was asked “Didn’t we go to war because we said WMD’s were a direct and imminent threat to the U.S?” He responded, “Absolutely.” (White House Press Briefing)

And then the lie about the lies:


"the administration never said Iraq was an imminent threat. The media have chose to use the word 'imminent' to describe the Iraqi threat." Scott McClellan, Jan 27,2004




Many many more examples on request.


Anyone who believes anything these people say is a sucker.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,148]

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OK, lets go with your premise. Would is be the same for those that continue to say GWB mislead and lied to get us into war?

To declare that absolutely is absolutely the same. Unless you're privvy, you don't know for sure, either way.

Agreed.

We do know when they lie about things that are already in the record. And they do this repeatedly.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SudsyFist 0]

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Anyone who believes anything these people say is a sucker.

Not just these folks, but how about politicians in general? Scrutiny is not at all a bad thing, particularly towards those who routinely engage in underhandedness virtually as part of their job descriptions.

[SudsyFist 0]

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We do know when they lie about things that are already in the record. And they do this repeatedly.

Looks like my statement was too broad (I was still swimming in the topic of intelligence manipulation).

When determining whether someone lied, you can proclaim that it was absolutely the case when you have absolutely condemning evidence. If you do not have such evidence, then any conclusions up with which you may come are then uncertain opinions, at best.

Better?

[kallend 2,148]

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Anyone who believes anything these people say is a sucker.

Not just these folks, but how about politicians in general? Scrutiny is not at all a bad thing, particularly towards those who routinely engage in underhandedness virtually as part of their job descriptions.

Fair enough but on the whole, used car salesmen are less likely to do as much damage with their lies as the President of the USA and his cabinet.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[crwtom 0]

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In all fairness, I suspect the shrub was told it was true by the powers that run him. Not having the mental acuity to determine for himself what happened, he believes them.

and for those groups and forces in the admin an invasion of Iraq
has always been at the top of the agenda.

They had these ambitions long before 9/11 and long before the
whole WMD controversy unfolded. These incidents were to them
basically convenient circumstances out of which they believed to
be able to concoct a case for a war. (In fact even choosing Iraq as
target over other arab countries was a matter of calculation and
convenience).

None of these perceived threats exceeded similar threats by many
other rouge nations, or singled Iraq out as a particularly urgent
case among them. (Almost any other arab nation in the vicinity
had a larger representation of terrorism, for nuclear capacities
loose material in former Soviet countries ranks at the top followed
by N Korea, Pakistan, and Iran, for biological capacities Cuba tops
the list, chemical ones are all over the world, and if you talk about
humanitarian disasters there're way worse ones in the world.)

So I find the question whether or not Bush lied about details
about the strength of the "evidence" for WMDs or connections to
9/11 at best secondary. What the details were about what
information was exactly passed is quite irrelevant. In fact, these
issues were never the trues reasons we went to war, but rather
conveniently pasted into some piece of propaganda, without any
real effort to double check them in any conscientious
manner.

Several people close to the political establishment in DC have given
a picture of how the decision of Bush came about that I find very
plausible given many other indicators surrounding this presidency:

The Iraq-invasion-mongers managed to convince GWB that
he could write himself into history by democratizing one arab
nation and thereby spreading the joy of western enlightening into
the neighborhood. Iraq was for many reasons the ideal target.
Bush also had an excellent button to push - namely, his often
observed compulsion to emulate Reganistic grandeur (see also
Tax breaks) They only had to wetten his taste with a
promise that this "democratization of arabs exercise" would be
seen in the same light as Reagans (not really correctly attributed)
"achievement" to bring down the communism. The shrub didn't
have to think twice (not that this would have been particularly
fruitful anyway)

So YES. I'm convinced that Bush lied to the American people.
Perhaps not about some legalistic hairsplitting detail to what
degree a piece of intelligence about the issues that served as
pretenses was given to him as fact or suggestion. But there's
no doubt for me that he lied about what the true motivations
for the administrations were to go to war. The world-reordering
ideologies, and megalomaniac ambitions of self-glorification
could have never been sold to the US public or the world.

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[Muenkel 0]

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This thread makes my head hurt.

Would you like to borrow my avatar?

_________________________________________
Chris

[rasmack 0]

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Oh, and Wilsons claims about the yellow cake were completely debucked by both Rep and Dem senators looking into his report. They stated the Wilsons report (verbal) nothing written, supported the earlier claims that Iraq was trying to get yellow cake.

Again, you ane not on this planet if you have missed (or chosen to miss) all this info

Well apparently you can miss a lot of info just by being in the states. The Niger yellow cake thing was well known not to be true in Europe. The papers claiming it had been proven to be forgeries. A few weeks later Bush referred to it in a speech...

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[skydyvr 0]

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Of course, the democrats are just doing their patriotic duty right? The 9/11 commission found no manipulation of information or intel, of course that doesn't match what Reid, Kerry, and Kennedy want to talk about, so they just start shrill about it

I wish it were possible to calculate the % of ongoing US Soldier deaths which are attributable to those people.

. . =(_8^(1)

[kallend 2,148]

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Of course, the democrats are just doing their patriotic duty right? The 9/11 commission found no manipulation of information or intel, of course that doesn't match what Reid, Kerry, and Kennedy want to talk about, so they just start shrill about it

I wish it were possible to calculate the % of ongoing US Soldier deaths which are attributable to those people.

100% are due to the person who ordered them sent there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jenfly00 0]

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Of course, the democrats are just doing their patriotic duty right? The 9/11 commission found no manipulation of information or intel, of course that doesn't match what Reid, Kerry, and Kennedy want to talk about, so they just start shrill about it

I wish it were possible to calculate the % of ongoing US Soldier deaths which are attributable to those people.

Are we back to the 60's, "you are killing our soldiers by your lack of support for the war" kind of thing???

The people that sent them there are responsible for 100% of their deaths!

See, I don't give a rat's ass about democrats or republicans. What I care about is that we have a president selling hatred and fear; sacrificing innocent lives to perpetuate power and profit!!!

So keep on yelling Democrats! Kennedy! Kerry! while our soldiers die in vain.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[rushmc 23]

Ya, Blix is a credible source
Point is however, that even "before" GWB the world , including you beloved UN, said all the thing Bush said and belived. So they all are liers too right?

nough said...........

As far as the tax thing goes. More people are paying less taxes. The GNP has grown at 3% plus for 10 straight quarters and unimploument is lower than at any time during the Clinton administration.

Those "not" recieving benifits from that tax cuts, in most cases DON"T PAY TAXES!!!!!!!

There are lies in these posts but they are not mine or GWB's

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

The document was forged. Every one now agrees to that however, that does not change the fact the Irag was in touch tring to get yellow cake.

Again, known fact

Another thing, the forged document was not an acident. Do you recall who provided and document that they knew was forged??? hhhhmmmmmm??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ReBirth 0]

That's how I see it. Bush got pushed into it by the people he has around him. His big failing is not recognizing that and getting rid of them or at least seeking alternate council. At least Kennedy learned his lesson after the Bay of Pigs. Bush got hoodwinked in the same way, but still doesn't see it, just like his supporters.

[skydyvr 0]

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100% are due to the person who ordered them sent there.

And the congress who authorized him to do so. La-de-da.

. . =(_8^(1)