jenfly00 0 #51 November 13, 2005 Quotewhat "proof," other than personal opinion, do you have that anyone w/ religious belief is crazy? delusional? psychotic? your catagorical disdain for anyone religious or spiritual is pitiful at best. What proof do I offer that something you say exists actually does not exist ...I think you got that backwards. I'll bow out now and let you talk amoungst yourselves ...or to whoever you believe exists. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #52 November 13, 2005 QuoteQuotewhat "proof," other than personal opinion, do you have that anyone w/ religious belief is crazy? delusional? psychotic? your catagorical disdain for anyone religious or spiritual is pitiful at best. What proof do I offer that something you say exists actually does not exist ...I think you got that backwards. I'll bow out now and let you talk amoungst yourselves ...or to whoever you believe exists. pathetic... fucking pathetic. it's obvious you have nothing to offer here... best you DO bow out... smartest move you've made. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #53 November 13, 2005 There are a lot of things that I think I know. There are a lot of things that other people believe with fervor that I simply don't buy. BUT...knowing that those people are as capable of thought as I am, I find that it's important to at least respect their beliefs even if I don't believe in the same things myself. When you lose the capacity to accept that "just because you don't understand it don't mean it don't make no sense" you're truly alone.... You become ignorant because of your refusal to hear the wisdom that others impart. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #54 November 13, 2005 QuoteI'm glad you love your brother and his family. Live and be happy. We do, he does, and I do separately. But thanks for the wishes. I guess what boggles me is that you are so intolerant - even though you don't think you are. Maybe that's just the human condition. Maybe that's just the way it is. But I think - only from reading your posts, mind you - that you are intelligent and somewhat less abrasive than you'd lead me to believe. I'm just wondering what it is about religion and spirituality that irks you so badly that you'll attack posters here and ridicule them...especially since you state that as long as they don't impact your life, then it's all good. Last I looked, those folks here don't exactly impact your life...so why the vitriol? I guess I'll just sit here and scratch my head, since you don't seem to want to explain and/or discuss it. It's all good, I just wish you could see the point of the question and have the grace to actually answer it. (Chris, thanks so much for the compliment; I daresay, however, that I've got a very, very long way to go before I'm the "real deal". But it's nice to think you think so of me.). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #55 November 13, 2005 QuoteThere are a lot of things that I think I know. There are a lot of things that other people believe with fervor that I simply don't buy. BUT...knowing that those people are as capable of thought as I am, I find that it's important to at least respect their beliefs even if I don't believe in the same things myself. When you lose the capacity to accept that "just because you don't understand it don't mean it don't make no sense" you're truly alone.... You become ignorant because of your refusal to hear the wisdom that others impart. linz nicely put. good for me to hear too. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #56 November 13, 2005 Quote(Chris, thanks so much for the compliment; I daresay, however, that I've got a very, very long way to go before I'm the "real deal". But it's nice to think you think so of me.). michele, there's something you should hear... there are many people who THINK they are very spiritual and holy, but who are not... then there are those who think that are NOT that "far along" the spiritual path, ostensibly b/c they are truly humble, when in fact they are quite advanced spiritually. you, my dear, are the latter, and the fact that you don't recognize it or admit it only bolsters that fact for Chris and me. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #57 November 13, 2005 Quoteyou, my dear, are the latter, and the fact that you don't recognize it or admit it only bolsters that fact for Chris and me. We love you. And I love you both too. But your comment simply demonstrates that you are, er, ahem, erm, well, delusional...roflmfao. Hugs to your whole families - I miss both you guys very much. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #58 November 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteyou, my dear, are the latter, and the fact that you don't recognize it or admit it only bolsters that fact for Chris and me. We love you. And I love you both too. But your comment simply demonstrates that you are, er, ahem, erm, well, delusional...roflmfao. Hugs to your whole families - I miss both you guys very much. Ciels- Michele .... turn around... bend over.... get ready for your spanking... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #59 November 13, 2005 Quote(Chris, thanks so much for the compliment; I daresay, however, that I've got a very, very long way to go before I'm the "real deal". But it's nice to think you think so of me.). We all have a long way to go. The important thing is we keep moving in the right direction and I'd follow your footsteps anytime. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 1010 #60 November 13, 2005 Quote ... But I think - only from reading your posts, mind you - that you are intelligent and somewhat less abrasive than you'd lead me to believe. ... These are my thoughts as well ... there are some who have personal reasons to deeply distrust and dislike the "other" side ... everon comes to mind, myself as well, and I can respect not wishing to share a personal hurt that caused the bad feelings. (And no I'm not going to get into my issues either.) While intellectually I understand that I have way too many bad feelings for the other side, emotionally, they are a fact. If she doesn't wish to talk about them publicly, that's fine. But ity'd be nice if she would acknowledge that she _is_ pretty rough on the believers. My .02 & yea nobody asked You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #61 November 13, 2005 QuoteI guess what boggles me is that you are so intolerant - even though you don't think you are. Someone want to explain to me how she's shown you that she's intolerant? Because she thinks others opinions are wrong doesn't mean she doesn't tolerate them. Intolerant is when you actively seek to stop someone from expressing an opinion or acting in a certain way. Christians that protest at gay pride festivals are intolerant. Atheists that try to banish voluntary moments of silence in schools are intolerant. How does that relate to Jen's posts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #62 November 13, 2005 QuoteSomeone want to explain to me how she's shown you that she's intolerant? Because she thinks others opinions are wrong doesn't mean she doesn't tolerate them. Intolerant is when you actively seek to stop someone from expressing an opinion or acting in a certain way. (bear with me, I've not had enough coffee to be completely awake...) For me, the intolerance is a pattern (not just on this thread) where someone labels, namecalls, and does their best to provoke an argument with someone of a different opinion, and tends to be rather vitriolic in their method. Well, sure, that's what SC is about...but it can be done with some respect (I do it often, as do many here) and in a way which allows discussion rather than the abrupt shutting down of an expression of opinion. In this particular thread, calling someone psychotic and nuts, simply because they pray, is a pretty clear indication to me that there is intolerance present. Furthermore, I haven't seen the shutting down of *all* religious opinions, simply those with a christian flavor. I haven't seen it happen with those who are jews, or buddhist, or muslim (and yes, there are those posters here, too...and they express themselves also). I think it's the selective issue - and towards particular posters in specificity - that indicates to me intolerance. And so I question the intolerance - and to me, it's a specific hatred, but she protested that phrase - and so I asked about it. There is a poster here who is pretty clear that organized religion is not something they participate in, but for the most part, they don't call names and point fingers and imply significant mental illness because someone else believes other than they do. They state their position for themselves, and allow others to have different opinions. To me, that's tolerance. QuoteChristians that protest at gay pride festivals are intolerant. Atheists that try to banish voluntary moments of silence in schools are intolerant. Maybe I'm using a different vocabulary than you, but to me, those are activists. That goes much farther than intolerance. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #63 November 13, 2005 An adult who talks to invisible friends is generally believed to have a screw loose, to be playing with a few cards short of a deck, to have bats in the belfry .... How and why is it any different if done under the guise of "organized religion"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #64 November 13, 2005 The existence of Pat Robertson himself makes it clear that, if there were some kind of design to the universe, it is definitely not intelligent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #65 November 13, 2005 Quote An adult who talks to invisible friends is generally believed to have a screw loose, to be playing with a few cards short of a deck, to have bats in the belfry .... How and why is it any different if done under the guise of "organized religion"? just b/c YOU can't see/sense/feel God ipso facto means that He isn't there? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #66 November 13, 2005 Quote An adult who talks to invisible friends is generally believed to have a screw loose, to be playing with a few cards short of a deck, to have bats in the belfry .... How and why is it any different if done under the guise of "organized religion"? In a word, FAITH. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #67 November 13, 2005 QuoteThe existence of Pat Robertson himself makes it clear that, if there were some kind of design to the universe, it is definitely not intelligent. I wonder what that says about your existence? btw, beautiful avatar... seriously... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 2 #68 November 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe existence of Pat Robertson himself makes it clear that, if there were some kind of design to the universe, it is definitely not intelligent. I wonder what that says about your existence? Hey, where do I condemn a whole class of people to damnation just because they don't think the way I do? Quote btw, beautiful avatar... seriously... A hell of an artist, even with one ear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #69 November 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe existence of Pat Robertson himself makes it clear that, if there were some kind of design to the universe, it is definitely not intelligent. I wonder what that says about your existence? Hey, where do I condemn a whole class of people to damnation just because they don't think the way I do? Quote btw, beautiful avatar... seriously... A hell of an artist, even with one ear. Good old Vincent. Wonderful. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #70 November 13, 2005 QuoteHey, where do I condemn a whole class of people to damnation just because they don't think the way I do? that wasn't the question... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #71 November 13, 2005 QuoteChristians that protest at gay pride festivals are intolerant As are members of Act Up when they enter St. Patrick's Cathedral during mass and desecrate the Holy Eucharist. Just pointing this out so you know that the flipside also happens. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #72 November 13, 2005 Yep...I actually pointed out the flipside in the next phrase. Thanks for letting me know there's a flip side. And no offense intended to anyone, but I have to concur that I see very religious individuals as being a little crazy. Hey, I'm a little crazy too, everyone has their quirks. But that's how I see belief in a supreme being. That doesn't mean I'm not tolerant of you whackos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #73 November 13, 2005 QuoteYep...I actually pointed out the flipside in the next phrase. Thanks for letting me know there's a flip side. And no offense intended to anyone, but I have to concur that I see very religious individuals as being a little crazy. Hey, I'm a little crazy too, everyone has their quirks. But that's how I see belief in a supreme being. That doesn't mean I'm not tolerant of you whackos well, just as long as you can admit you're whacko too, right along w/ us! that's more than I can say for some others... i'll buy you a beer -or the drink of your choice some day... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #74 November 14, 2005 WooHoo!!!! Are we gonna talk about insanity and religion now? somebody make more popcorn and pack another bowl... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #75 November 14, 2005 QuoteThere is a poster here who is pretty clear that organized religion is not something they participate in, but for the most part, they don't call names and point fingers and imply significant mental illness because someone else believes other than they do. They state their position for themselves, and allow others to have different opinions. There's a lot more than just "a poster" that feels that way. Just because organized religion has been abused for power hungry individuals (just like unions, political parties, etc) doesn't mean it can't be applied positively at the individual level. So insistent mocking it is a form of intolerance and hate. My favorite hypocrisy of the year which has shown up so many times in these postings is this statement "The ONLY thing I'm intolerant of is intolerance" - nice indication of someone exploring their moral limits and still having trouble figuring it out. But, still an indication of legitimately trying to figure it out - so a wierd combiniation of bad results and good intentions and attempting personal growth. I wonder if it's caused by a false need to exhibit outrage publicly. I think our #1 Biggest, most damaging problem today is confusing disagreement with moral incorrectness. It's used to be a sign of immaturity, but now you see it at all ages. Or at least it's the same, but just more vocal today. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
