livendive 8 #1 November 9, 2005 OK, not really, but can someone please explain to me how releasing caged minks is a form of terrorism? From http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002612299_dige09m.html QuoteA Mercer Island man who dodged federal authorities for years after he freed thousands of mink from Midwestern fur farms was sentenced Tuesday in Madison, Wis., to two years in prison. Peter Daniel Young, 28, pleaded guilty in a deal with prosecutors in September to two counts of animal-enterprise terrorism. U.S. District Judge Stephen Crocker also ordered Young to pay $254,840 in restitution to the mink farmers. Investigators say Young and accomplice Justin Samuel trespassed, cut fences and released caged mink from farms in Wisconsin, South Dakota and Iowa in 1997. Federal investigators believe they were acting on behalf of the Animal Liberation Front, a radical group that aims to destroy animal industries it considers inhumane. Young and Samuel originally were indicted in Madison in 1998 on four extortion charges and two animal-enterprise counts. They each would have faced 82 years in prison had they been convicted on all six counts. Both of them disappeared after the indictment came down. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #2 November 9, 2005 Well, aren't they pretty smelly animals? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 November 9, 2005 I could say it's stealing very clearly. Vandalism yes. Criminal trespass, yes. Terrorism? The only thing terrorized in this type of thing is the minks who likely have never lived on their own. Plus, Iowa and Wisconsin are both pretty scary. QuoteBoth of them disappeared after the indictment came down. Yeah, they really have the courage of their convictions don't they? or only when it's convenient for them ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #4 November 9, 2005 Quotecan someone please explain to me how releasing caged minks is a form of terrorism? Because it says so in the patriot act? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #5 November 9, 2005 QuoteBecause it says so in the patriot act? That is the part that scares me the most.. all they have to do is label someone a terrorist... ( as opposed to just a normal criminal) and off to a gulag you go. People buying an ounce of weed.... narco terrorists because they are supporting the cartels? DAYUM I am glad I am not a drug abuser. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #6 November 9, 2005 There's a provision in The Act that if 3 or more people have a common handshake (two finger slide then point), common wardrobe (jumpsuit), and common purpose (skydiving), they are a terrorist organization. Sound like anyone you know? It's not that farfetched either, it's been used against motorcycle clubs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #7 November 9, 2005 Well, I've seen thread derailed before, but that was still impressive. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #8 November 9, 2005 >please explain to me how releasing caged minks is a form of terrorism? It is easier to arrest and prosecute people for terrorism as a result of (among other things) the Patriot act. Thus terrorism get named more often. It's like prosecutors who use the RICO statutes to go after people who have nothing to do with racketeering or organized crime. I can recall people defending the Patriot Act and saying it would be used only to defend the US from evil foreign terrorists. Now it's being used to prosecute animal activists. Next we will see a company prosecuted for 'economic terrorism' or some other such nonsense. Laws get used, sometimes even in ways their creators did not envision - which is why they can be very dangerous things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #9 November 9, 2005 How so? I'm illustrating the ambiguity of the designation "terrorist" thanks to the Patriot Act. Seems right on point to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #10 November 9, 2005 QuoteOK, not really, but can someone please explain to me how releasing caged minks is a form of terrorism? The use of the word "terrorism" seems like very poor characterization of this crime to me. It looks like it's based on this law, as defined Here and Here. If they removed the word "terrorism" from all that I would agree with it 100%. Perhaps they chose that word because of the political motives behind the so-called animal enterprise attacks, which go beyond just simple vandalism or theft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 November 9, 2005 QuoteHow so? I'm illustrating the ambiguity of the designation "terrorist" thanks to the Patriot Act. Seems right on point to me. ok, i see that Still, I was hoping to see a thread about little animals dressed up like rambo driving little stick car bombs into beaver dams and the like. Imagine my disappointment ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #12 November 9, 2005 Quote The use of the word "terrorism" seems like very poor characterization of this crime to me. It looks like it's based on this law, as defined Here and Here. If they removed the word "terrorism" from all that I would agree with it 100%. Perhaps they chose that word because of the political motives behind the so-called animal enterprise attacks, which go beyond just simple vandalism or theft. Wow, I'm surprised by the date of that Act...1992. I'd have guessed that it was much more recent and taking advantage of the popular opinion of "terrorism". In any case, I'm not a big fan of punishing motives, whether it's this kind of thing (criminal environmental/animal rights activism) or hate-related crimes. Doing damage to a business because they treat animals in a way you don't like shouldn't be punished any differently than doing damage to a business because the CEO has been shagging your wife. Similarly, kicking the crap out of someone because they're gay/black/hispanic etc shouldn't be punished any differently than kicking the crap out of someone because they cut into a line at the movie theater. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 November 9, 2005 QuoteIn any case, I'm not a big fan of punishing motives, whether it's this kind of thing (criminal environmental/animal rights activism) or hate-related crimes. Doing damage to a business because they treat animals in a way you don't like shouldn't be punished any differently than doing damage to a business because the CEO has been shagging your wife. Similarly, kicking the crap out of someone because they're gay/black/hispanic etc shouldn't be punished any differently than kicking the crap out of someone because they cut into a line at the movie theater. and then you say something totally cool - I'd like to subscribe to your newletter ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #14 November 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow so? I'm illustrating the ambiguity of the designation "terrorist" thanks to the Patriot Act. Seems right on point to me. ok, i see that Still, I was hoping to see a thread about little animals dressed up like rambo driving little stick car bombs into beaver dams and the like. Imagine my disappointment I was thinking of them driving those flaming bio-diesel hybrid lawn mowers in a drive by molotav cocktail bombing of the beaver dams and then dancing around firing bottle rockets into the air in celebration. I'm as disappointed as you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #15 November 9, 2005 QuoteI'm not a big fan of punishing motives, whether it's this kind of thing (criminal environmental/animal rights activism) or hate-related crimes. Doing damage to a business because they treat animals in a way you don't like shouldn't be punished any differently than doing damage to a business because the CEO has been shagging your wife. I'm with you 100% there. We've gotten to the point where politicians want to punish thought in addition to acts. And that's just plain wrong. We should be free to think whatever we want, as long as we don't carry out any criminal acts. And it's stupid to punish some criminals more harshly than others, for inflicting identical damage, because of why they did it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #16 November 9, 2005 Man...I wish I had any kind of artisitic skill and could animate that, because I'm totally picturing it in my head..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #17 November 9, 2005 QuoteBecause it says so in the patriot act? The whole terrorism as it applies to fanatical animal rights groups thing has been around a lot longer than the Patriot Act. Hell, I don't see any mention of the PA in the news article. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #18 November 9, 2005 Quote>please explain to me how releasing caged minks is a form of terrorism? It is easier to arrest and prosecute people for terrorism as a result of (among other things) the Patriot act. Thus terrorism get named more often. It's like prosecutors who use the RICO statutes to go after people who have nothing to do with racketeering or organized crime. I can recall people defending the Patriot Act and saying it would be used only to defend the US from evil foreign terrorists. Now it's being used to prosecute animal activists. Next we will see a company prosecuted for 'economic terrorism' or some other such nonsense. Laws get used, sometimes even in ways their creators did not envision - which is why they can be very dangerous things. And didn't we have this discussion not very long ago right here in SC????? I'm thinkin' so.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #19 November 9, 2005 >We've gotten to the point where politicians want to punish thought in addition to acts. I agree. And that's the primary problem with labeling certain crimes "terrorism" or "hate crimes." It shouldn't matter why they do something, even if it's because they hate gays or because they want to terrorize a population. The punishment should fit the crime, not the criminal's morals or politics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #20 November 9, 2005 Maybe so...but terrorism has been being charged much more liberally since the PA came about. It's the RICO of the 21st century. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #21 November 9, 2005 QuoteMan...I wish I had any kind of artisitic skill and could animate that, because I'm totally picturing it in my head..... It's still not right...... How about this: Minks with black headbands and eye patches, riding flaming bio-diesel hybrid lawnmowers pepetrating a molotav cocktail bombing of a Bald Eagles nest and then doing a victory dance around the nest while firing AK47's and praising Allah. Yeah, now it's right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #22 November 10, 2005 I don't agree that the example you post is "terrorism" but there are a hell of a lot of examples out there of animal rights fucks committing acts of terrorism. I get so fucking mad somtimes when I hear about their latest stunt on the radio. Fuckers. Time we arrested a couple of them and handed them over to our "allies". Well perhaps not, but they really do need smacking down with a few big arrests and long long jail sentences. Did I say they were fuckers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 November 11, 2005 Quote>We've gotten to the point where politicians want to punish thought in addition to acts. I agree. Holy shit, that's twice this week billvon has agreed with me. I must be gettin' soft... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
