Voting: what's worse?

[NWFlyer 2]

for my first new thread in SC!

I'm staring at my absentee ballot (which just needs to be postmarked by today or dropped at a polling place to be valid) and thinking "I should vote, I really should." I know turnout is abysmally low in "off-year" electons, and that local elections could possibly impact my life more than the national ones. But still...

There's a couple initiatives on the ballot I care a lot about, but the rest of the stuff, honestly, I don't know much about or care much about.

So what do you think is worse?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[GTAVercetti 0]

I am in the same position. It is entirely my fault that I did not prepare myself to vote today. And so I feel that it would be a disservice to all if I were to just pick one and go with it.

Add to that that the little I have seen of the two running for governor here makes me very sad (fighting, smearing, "no I didn't, yes you did" shit). Its like choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

There's a couple initiatives on the ballot I care a lot about, but the rest of the stuff, honestly, I don't know much about or care much about.

So what do you think is worse?

Not voting is clearly the stupid course when you care about any of the issues on the ballot.

You don't have to vote for the parts you don't feel qualified to answer to. Or you can opt for the default No on any initiative you have doubts on. In California the initiative process has been abused. It is supposed to be for the voters, not for the Governor and Legislature.

BTW, you only need a postmark? In CA, I believe it must be received by today, or dropped off at a same county polling place.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

You don't have to vote for the parts you don't feel qualified to answer to. Or you can opt for the default No on any initiative you have doubts on. In California the initiative process has been abused. It is supposed to be for the voters, not for the Governor and Legislature.

The Legislature in CA hasn't put up any initiatives for voting to the public. They have totally degraded the structure of government in the state. Schwarzeneggar has taken a beating, and he's not perfect, but he has put stuff on the ballot that the people need to speak on as a final say.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Not voting is clearly the stupid course when you care about any of the issues on the ballot.

Yep, I'm downloading some voters guide stuff right now ... I've got the time to actually read up on this stuff.

Quote

In California the initiative process has been abused. It is supposed to be for the voters, not for the Governor and Legislature.

In Washington it's been abused by one guy in particular (Tim Eyman), who is a self-aggrandizing idiot who's pushed through some truly stupid stuff in the name of "populism." What ends up happening here is that we have legislators that have no cojones because they can always push anything tough out to the people in a referendum.

Quote

BTW, you only need a postmark? In CA, I believe it must be received by today, or dropped off at a same county polling place.

Yup, Washington is one of the states where you only have to have it postmarked by the election day. If I end up filling mine out I'll walk it up to the polling place. Washington makes it super-easy to be a permanent absentee voter, so often our elections end up being decided by the absentees as a sizeable portion of the electorate votes that way.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

I am in the same position. It is entirely my fault that I did not prepare myself to vote today. And so I feel that it would be a disservice to all if I were to just pick one and go with it.

The results are showing that people seem to support your viewpoint. I guess my cynicism comes from wondering how many people actually do bother to inform themselves? Our elections are (most likely) being decided by the uninformed anyway.

[kelpdiver 2]

you need to look at the ballots over the past decade. The legislature (iow, the two state parties) are the source of the bulk of it, on matters that should have been dealt with in Sacramento.

On this particular ballot, I don't fault Arnold for putting these out as initiatives. But I don't think any warranted the cost and inconvenience of a special election either. These should have been placed on the 2006 primary election. He tried to use the threat of the special election to get some of these measures passed by the legislature and when they refused to budge, he went through with the semi bluff.

[kelpdiver 2]

your suggested answers focus on your ignorance, so it's not surprising that the polling is going so far against. But you're not giving yourself enough credit saying it like that.

As I said, you don't have to vote on everything. I can't pick either of your options as a result.

[GARYC24 3]

73-YES
74-YES
75-YES
76-YES
77-NO
78-YES
79-NO
80-NO
IN CALIFORNIA VOTE.

[ReBirth 0]

Considering most voters are voting along party lines of for whomever has the better hair, I think it's a wash.

I'm voting on a ballot issue, for city controller, and DA. There's a shitload of municipal, civil, common pleas, traffic judges up for retention or in contested races. I'm just skipping those cause I don't have a clue.

[NWFlyer 2]

Yes, and that really helps me in Washington. Also it doesn't really encourage thoughtful consideration of the issues now, does it?

By way of update - thanks to folks for reminding me that I don't have to vote on everything. I took a couple hours to read the initiatives/referenda, their supporting/opposing statements, and a bit of coverage in the local press, and voted on all those. Voted on some of the bigger offices (Mayor/County Exec) where I'm more familiar with the candidates/issues, and skipped stuff like Port Commissioner and School Board where I'm less informed/interested.

So, now, let's consider this thread a reminder to vote!

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Add to that that the little I have seen of the two running for governor here makes me very sad (fighting, smearing, "no I didn't, yes you did" shit). Its like choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

Of course, you could make it a referndum on the Bush Administration (assuming your profile info is correct and you're a Virginia voter)...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/07/AR2005110701413.html

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Quote

Add to that that the little I have seen of the two running for governor here makes me very sad (fighting, smearing, "no I didn't, yes you did" shit). Its like choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

Of course, you could make it a referndum on the Bush Administration (assuming your profile info is correct and you're a Virginia voter)...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/07/AR2005110701413.html

Personally, from the little I have seen, I think Kaine is just as much of an ass clown as Kilgore. I still feel that I was unprepared to pick the lesser of the two idiots (or greater, depending on persepctive I guess) so I think my choice is for the best.

And it would not matter if Kilgore won or not. I have little faith that Bush would turn around and do something I like...he has has quite some time to do so and has failed on numerous ocassion to impress me.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[tbrown 26]

Back in the 1980's, Haitians waiting in line to vote were massacred with machetes. The pictures were all over TIME Magazine. Even in the US, officials make it difficult for some American citizens to vote in non-white precincts.

Your right to vote is one of the most precious rights you've got. Yeah, campaigns are heavily financed and tweaked by lying spin artists. And the whole political process is a massive bummer. But you need to vote. You OWE it to a lot of people who have fought and died for your right to vote.

And you'll NEVER be as well informed as you want to be, or "ought to" be either. Nobody ever is. Winston Churchill once said "democracy is the worst possible form of government, until you consider the alternatives". So put on a blindfold and throw darts at your ballot if you must, but use it and vote.

Hope to see you again at Perris sometime too.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[ViperPilot 0]

You can vote on the candidates/issues you are informed on and not vote on the ones you aren't informed on. That's what you should do. I view it as a diservice to the system and your fellow constituents if you vote on a candidate/issue when uninformed.

[headoverheels 334]

Quote

73-YES
74-YES
75-YES
76-YES
77-NO
78-YES
79-NO
80-NO
IN CALIFORNIA VOTE.

73-NO
74-YES
75-NO
76-NO
77-NO
78-NO
79-NO
80-NO

[headoverheels 334]

CA returns. Click on the MAP link for each proposition.

http://vote2005.ss.ca.gov/Returns/prop/00.htm

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

You can vote on the candidates/issues you are informed on and not vote on the ones you aren't informed on. That's what you should do. I view it as a diservice to the system and your fellow constituents if you vote on a candidate/issue when uninformed.

Read my later posts. That's what I *did* do.

• Quote

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

And it would not matter if Kilgore won or not. I have little faith that Bush would turn around and do something I like...he has has quite some time to do so and has failed on numerous ocassion to impress me.

Oh, I didn't think that it would cause much change in the Bush administration regime. Just gives me a little more hope for the midterm elections next year.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Back in the 1980's, Haitians waiting in line to vote were massacred with machetes. The pictures were all over TIME Magazine. Even in the US, officials make it difficult for some American citizens to vote in non-white precincts.

Your right to vote is one of the most precious rights you've got. Yeah, campaigns are heavily financed and tweaked by lying spin artists. And the whole political process is a massive bummer. But you need to vote. You OWE it to a lot of people who have fought and died for your right to vote.

And you'll NEVER be as well informed as you want to be, or "ought to" be either. Nobody ever is. Winston Churchill once said "democracy is the worst possible form of government, until you consider the alternatives". So put on a blindfold and throw darts at your ballot if you must, but use it and vote.

Yup, I definitely believe in exercising my right to vote, and I am trying to be a little less passive about the political process. Washington State makes it SO DAMNED EASY to vote with its very liberal absentee ("vote by mail") process that I feel incredibly guilty when I don't vote.

I was thinking about that as I walked my ballot up to the polling place today ... how it was a short six-block walk from my house, a safe walk on a chilly fall day, and how *easy* that was. And if I'd gotten my act together sooner, I only would have had to walk as far as my mailbox to vote.

Quote

Hope to see you again at Perris sometime too.

Me too! I'll need an escape from this Northwest weather before long.

[councilman24 37]

What's even WORSE is sitting at home waiting to see if you've been kicked out of office or reelected. (See user name) 8 running for three seats on the city council and I'm the only incumbent running. Well, I came in second so reelected to my third 4 year term. Some one must be doing something right.
It's hard to keep up with State university trustees, judges, and lots of others. You can use sources that you generally agree with. Like a paper whose editorial position you agree with. They generally endorse candidates. You can use friends that you trust and who share your positions. You can read the League of women's voter's guides.

And if you are satisfied with local government you can choose to reelect the incombents.

And you can choose not to vote.

While the right to vote, or duty, is invaluable it's even more humbling to see you name on a ballot. It's not hard for this race. 50 signatures on a nominating petition. But it still humbling to see 3000 people vote for you.

As they say in Chicago, "Vote early and Vote often" Or in Detroit "Vote even if your in a coma"

Happy election day!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Well, I came in second so reelected to my third 4 year term.

Congratulations! And thanks for being committed to the tough and probably none-too-glamorous world of local government. And yeah, it is very tough as a voter to keep up with every office possible. I'll admit one of the offices I didn't vote for today was City Council. However, when I really think about it, do I "know" all that much more about the candidates for national office?

Your suggestions on where to get information were good. What I did this afternoon was look at the "neutral" info put out by the state/county, the two mainstream newspapers, and my favorite alternative weekly, to see what their thoughts/opinions/endorsements were, and how they compared to my initial thoughts/beliefs/gut instincts.

[Nightingale 0]

NO 73 - Requires teenager's parents to be notified before an abortion.
reason: causes more problems than it solves, and would add more government regulation, which adds more cost.

NO 74 - Requires more years of service before CA teachers get tenure.
reason: wouldn't solve anything. Teachers can be removed, tenure or not, for good reasons. Most of the poor teachers I've run into are biding their time for retirement and are burned out, and this proposition doesn't do anything to solve that. Most new teachers that are bad at it end up burning out fairly quickly and are generally young enough that they go start a new career anyway. The proposition wouldn't change anything useful at all.


YES 75 - Prohibits unions from political lobbying with union dues unless they get a yearly signed permission statement from the people in their union.
reason: I had a union that I was forced to belong to at work give money to a candidate that I couldn't stand. I thought the guy was a moron, and was really annoyed that union dues I didn't want to pay to begin with were being used to support a candidate I would never vote for.

NO 76 - Allows governor to cut school spending without going through legislature. Limits school spending based on a formula.
reason: we have a legislature for a reason. let them do their job.

NO 77 - Gives all redistricting power (redrawing district maps) to three retired judges on a panel.
reason: I wouldn't trust a panel to draw district lines accurately representing the people. That gives a small group too much power.

NO 78 - Prescription drug discount plan, involving voluntary participation by drug companies. (Sponsored by said drug companies.)
reason: I don't think it's going to work. Since when do companies volunteer to give up profits?

NO 79 - Prescription drug discount plan, involving the state effectively functioning as a middleman in drug purchases for Medi-Cal.
reason: creates a new issue for the government to regulate. we have government regulating too many things already, and they generally screw it up. Access to prescription drugs is something the people can't afford to have the government screw up.

NO 80 - Electric service provider rule changes
Reason: see 79. I don't trust the government to regulate this. They've screwed up majorly before.