DZ safety warning

[ReBirth 0]

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My rig is worth a lot more than any gun I own.

your rig will be less likely used to kill/injure people...

I know a lot more people that have died skydiving than getting shot.

[rasmack 0]

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My rig is worth a lot more than any gun I own.

your rig will be less likely used to kill/injure people...

I know a lot more people that have died skydiving than getting shot.

Rigs don't kill people. Mother Earth kills people.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[diverborg 0]

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your rig will be less likely used to kill/injure people...

So what you're trying to say is that the reason you are worried about it getting stolen is that someone is gonna come out to the dz to break into your vehicle looking for a gun to start shooting people. No offense, but I'm glad I don't have to live with these kind of fears. I think if someone had the intention to kill people they would probably already have a gun or find one any other way. I don't think someone witnessing someone showing off a gun to someone else would posess someone to break into a that vehicle to go on a shooting rampage, Especially somone from a dz.

Can you decipher this post through the 25 times I used the word someone?

[Nightingale 0]

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To the people who own guns, I am curious.

Are you really that concerned with your safety?

Yes. I live alone in a downstairs apartment. If someone wanted to get in, it's not that hard.

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I mean... c'mon.. really.. how many people do you know who have actually HAD to use a gun in self-defense?

Four people that I know of. Probably more that I don't.

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I think a better protection of personal safety would be to invest in a home security system, live in an area with lower crime rates, carry pepper spray, use common sense, don't do hard-core drugs like meth, don't sleep around with married people.. and exercise common sense.

Well, first off, most apartments don't allow a home security system to be installed, and installers won't do it without the landlord's permission. Unless you live in a house, security systems aren't always an option.

Living in areas with low crime rates is expensive. I'm a student. I don't have a lot of extra money, and I can't afford a deposit of several thousand dollars to move to a new apartment, not to mention mover's fees and all the other crapola that goes along with moving. My shotgun was a heck of a lot cheaper. The area I live in is fairly safe; I don't have a problem walking to the store after dark, but bad things happen even in safer areas. There has been quite a few serial rapists who have come through windows in so called "safe" areas.

As for pepper spray: first off, it has to be in your hand. Far too many women carry it in their purses where they have to dig for it. You walk in your front door, set your purse down, go to bed... if someone comes into your bedroom, they're now between you and your pepper spray. A weapon does you no good if you can't access it. A gun next to your bed is a lot easier to access. I guess you could keep pepper spray next to your bed, but it takes much better aim than a shotgun, and is a lot smaller, so it could be harder to find in the dark.

I don't do drugs, I don't sleep with married people, and I do exercise common sense: I put locks on the doors and windows, got extensive training in hand-to-hand combat, and bought a shotgun and learned how to use it.

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If you have a gun to use for hunting, or recreation (at gun clubs and on private property and such) then go for it! Hooray! Go out and shoot things.

I do. The fact that it's also a damn good weapon for home/self defense is a bonus. Also, there's no point in having a weapon for self defense if you don't go out and practice with it until you are very comfortable with it.

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But if you actually own a gun because you're so worried about your safety, there are probably other more effective steps you could take to make yourself more safe.

I've taken those steps. I've also bought a shotgun to deal with people who are not deterred by those steps. What it really comes down to is that I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Far too many people are prompted to buy a gun or take martial arts lessons AFTER something happens. I had so many women that turned up in my karate class after they'd been raped or beaten by a stranger or someone they knew. At that point, karate training is empowering and can help prevent future incidents, but it won't help with the first one. The time to buy a gun and/or take self-defense classes (I'd recommend both, but that's my opinion) is BEFORE you need them. I've heard so many people say that they'd never thought they would use their martial arts; they were just training for fun, and then their skills saved their ass. I am one of those people. I wonder if things would've turned out differently for the women I trained if they'd started training earlier. It may not have helped, but it may have made all the difference.

People think that things are never going to happen to them until something does happen and they find themselves unprepared. Some people are satisfied taking little steps to prepare themselves, like the ones you mentioned. Others, especially people who have been victims or worked with victims and KNOW how easily something can happen, will take more extensive steps. You have to look at your own comfort level and take appropriate steps, realizing that if something happens to you, your comfort level is probably going to change, because then you'll know firsthand how easy it is for a strong person to become a victim.

[Nightingale 0]

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it would be interesting to see the statistics for gun related injuries, say comparing accidental discharge against when used in protection of ones life.

There would be many fewer accidental injuries if parents who own guns would teach their children proper respect for firearms.

I grew up in a house where the guns hung on the wall. Ammunition was in the closet and down in the basement where my father did his reloads. It never occurred to my sister or me to touch any of these things without permission. Never. And I was not a particularly obedient child. I was, however, very aware from an early age exactly what a firearm can do.

Yep. When I was about four, my dad took my brother and I out to an open range. He set up a watermelon and aimed a shotgun at it. He told us "this is what a gun can do to your head." and fired at the watermelon, which exploded everywhere.

My brother and I were NEVER tempted to touch a gun without permission after that kind of visual aid. My dad had guns hanging on the wall. I don't know where the ammo was, because I never was tempted to look.

[RhondaLea 4]

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Wow, we're blowing this one out of proportion. No one said he was waving these things around for everyone to see, or that his motives were even self-centered. If someone wants to see a gun, what is the big freakin deal if he shows it to a guy in the dz parking lot. Everyone seems to assume this gun is gonna be loaded and that he's gonna start firing it randomly.

I assume nothing of the kind.

Read my follow-up post and everything else I've written on the subject.

Making a production of having firearms is not smart. I know that from personal experience. If you want to show off your weaponry, the appropriate place is not in a place where any old Tom, Dick or Harry can see you do it.

Although...if you're buying your firearms at WalMart, they're probably not worth stealing anyway, in which case, it's probably no big deal.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[rehmwa 2]

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Making a production of having firearms

This is how people normally show off their new firearms to friends.

Quietly pulling it out of it's case, checking to see it's unload and open, then showing it to a friend and discussing it's merits, likely with both their backs to the rest of the public, (if the friend is also trained he will double check that there is no ammo chambered BTW) etc is now a "PRODUCTION"

I wonder what you visualized in your mental picturing of the event. Do tell.

(I kind of see this scenario. JR swaggers into manifest and wrestles the PA mike from a tiny passive manifest woman (). He loudly announces "I HAVE A GUN IN MY UNLOCKED CAR. IN 5 MINUTES I'LL BE SHOWING IT TO ANYONE WHO COMES OUT TO SEE. IF YOU DON'T COME OUT, I'LL USE YOU FOR TARGET PRACTICE.

A crowd gathers by his car, he is late, but that's ok because a small child has already gone onto the passenger seat (where the gun was lying....loaded.....cocked.....safety off.....) and is holding it by the barrel with one hand and trying to crawl out of the window while the trigger guard is constantly bumping the mirror.

John walks over and grabs the gun by the trigger (somehow, in your cartoon bubble, the trigger guard is missing and the trigger itself is 2 feet long with lots of snag features) the gun goes off and the child starts laughing because the bullet tickled as it grazed his temple. John roars with laughter, roughing the lads hair and mumbling about how 'Kids have to learn one way or the other')

John 'brandishes' (I like that word) the gun and start shooting at passing Segwey drivers just to scare them yelling "Dance, roll, dance, roll" etc.

"See my gun? It's big, because liberals scare me sexually and I'm insecure, I'll shoot anyone who ever cuts me from a load. It'll be right here... loaded... and on my passenger seat... in my unlocked car..... over night while I camp.... Next to a bottle of tequila. In the meantime, I'll be taking on this next load where I'll be forcing anyone to do only style and accuracy, because we gun rights people also are all S&A advocates and don't believe in learning anything new."

He then procedes to turn out lights by shooting the light bulbs. And to check the airplane gas level by shooting off the cap and dipping a stick in the tank.

Yup, I can see the 'production' like I'm standing there.

Edit: Oh yeah, Kennedy shows up and they start firing at each other, giggling at the playfulness of gun ownership. Where has that guy been anyway?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RhondaLea 4]

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I wonder what you visualized in your mental picturing of the event. Do tell.

I visualized every stupid thing I've ever seen people do with firearms.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[billvon 3,120]

>I wonder what you visualized in your mental picturing of the event.

Here's what I picture, cause it happened.

We were sitting around in Marc's house one day, watching TV and drinking beer. Marc said "Hey, I gotta show you something!" and disappeared upstairs. We paid little attention, engrossed as we were in drinking beer. (Marc didn't drink at the time.) He reappeared with his father's 9 millimeter. He had his finger on the trigger, inside the trigger guard. It was pointed in our direction.

Jan and I didn't even say anything; we just bolted out the back door and started running into the woods. Marc pursued. "Come on, guys! Cut it out! It's not loaded!"

"How do you know?" I asked, ducking behind a bush.

"Cause I took the clip out. Duh."

"Is there a round chambered?" I asked him.

"What?"

"Is there a round in the chamber? There can be a round in the chamber even if the clip is removed."

"Oh . . . uh . . . how do you . . ."

"Just put it back where you found it, you idiot!" yelled Jan. I was really expecting to hear a BLAM followed by silence. Fortunately he returned the gun to its hiding place, and all was well.

If I were at a DZ and someone like Aggie Dave, or Kennedy, or JP, wanted to show me a gun, I'd be happy to look at it. But if someone I didn't know said the same thing, I would picture Marc pulling out his father's gun (well, Marc plus alcohol.) Which is why I would tend to avoid such situations.

[sinker 0]

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>I wonder what you visualized in your mental picturing of the event.

Here's what I picture, cause it happened.

We were sitting around in Marc's house one day, watching TV and drinking beer. Marc said "Hey, I gotta show you something!" and disappeared upstairs. We paid little attention, engrossed as we were in drinking beer. (Marc didn't drink at the time.) He reappeared with his father's 9 millimeter. He had his finger on the trigger, inside the trigger guard. It was pointed in our direction.

Jan and I didn't even say anything; we just bolted out the back door and started running into the woods. Marc pursued. "Come on, guys! Cut it out! It's not loaded!"

"How do you know?" I asked, ducking behind a bush.

"Cause I took the clip out. Duh."

"Is there a round chambered?" I asked him.

"What?"

"Is there a round in the chamber? There can be a round in the chamber even if the clip is removed."

"Oh . . . uh . . . how do you . . ."

"Just put it back where you found it, you idiot!" yelled Jan. I was really expecting to hear a BLAM followed by silence. Fortunately he returned the gun to its hiding place, and all was well.

If I were at a DZ and someone like Aggie Dave, or Kennedy, or JP, wanted to show me a gun, I'd be happy to look at it. But if someone I didn't know said the same thing, I would picture Marc pulling out his father's gun (well, Marc plus alcohol.) Which is why I would tend to avoid such situations.

did marc's dad find out about the incident?
did marc get properly trained on gun handling following that incredibly dangerous incident?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 3,120]

>did marc's dad find out about the incident?

Not to my knowledge. But Marc did then go out and take a gun safety class, which was good.

He always still worried me, though. Marc could look at a car's engine and it would stop running. Twice, he got behind the wheel of his boat, and shortly thereafter something disastrous happened (broken shear pin, engine fire.) We knew not to let Marc drive if we had to get somewhere on time, because the car would die halfway there. I learned much of what I know about cars fixing Marc's various problems.

Some people have green thumbs, and some people can kill plants by being in the same room with them. Marc was that way with machines. Never had a problem with a gun; I hope he never does.

[ReBirth 0]

Well hell...I'd react the same way. Except you do realize that a bush probably won't stop the bullet, right?

[rehmwa 2]

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Well hell...I'd react the same way. Except you do realize that a bush probably won't stop the bullet, right?

No, he ducked behind Jeb Bush - who could stop most bullets.

Unfortunately, your anti-gunners take the position that everybody is like this Marc kid and want to set laws based on that opinion of the general public. Common theme, dems think the worst of everyone until proven otherwise. It does explain why they are passionate about guns though.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[sinker 0]

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>did marc's dad find out about the incident?

Not to my knowledge. But Marc did then go out and take a gun safety class, which was good.

He always still worried me, though. Marc could look at a car's engine and it would stop running. Twice, he got behind the wheel of his boat, and shortly thereafter something disastrous happened (broken shear pin, engine fire.) We knew not to let Marc drive if we had to get somewhere on time, because the car would die halfway there. I learned much of what I know about cars fixing Marc's various problems.

Some people have green thumbs, and some people can kill plants by being in the same room with them. Marc was that way with machines. Never had a problem with a gun; I hope he never does.

well, glad he got a gun safety course under his belt. man, how frightening! I hope he's learned valuable lessons and isn't so cavalier in the future.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[billvon 3,120]

>Except you do realize that a bush probably won't stop the bullet, right?

Right, but there were about 30 bushes in the area, and I figured he had at most one round. The odds were with me.

[sinker 0]

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>Except you do realize that a bush probably won't stop the bullet, right?

Right, but there were about 30 bushes in the area, and I figured he had at most one round. The odds were with me.

why did you not take the gun from him and rack it to remove any possible chambered round? i wouldn't have trusted the dude to even walk it back to it's "hiding place." (not to second guess you or anything...)

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[JohnRich 4]

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What business is it of yours if I want to show a fellow gun enthusiast a firearm that is in my truck, and I do so safely and out in the parking lot?

Do you have a permit to carry that thing in your truck?

Would you do this in the parking lot at Wal-Mart? If not, then why at the parking lot of the dropzone?

There's a time and place for everything. At the dz, what you show off is your gear and your ability to fly.

Serves you right if someone breaks into your truck and takes your firearm after your narcissistic little show and tell session.

In Texas, a permit is required, and I have one. In many states, no special permit is necessary. Thank you for your concern about law and order. Do you suppose the criminals worry about proper permits?

The Wal-Mart parking lot is full of strangers, who might be alarmed at someone showing a gun to another. At the DZ however, everyone knows me, and would not be concerned.

It is not your business to regulate what activities can occur in certain times or places. As long as the activity is not illegal, and the property owner doesn't mind, it's none of your business.

That's very nice of you to wish a crime to be committed against me. You're very sweet.

[JohnRich 4]

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What you personally prefer doesn't count - you don't have the right to dictate to others.

Does that mean you are pro-choice?

To a point, yes.

Many people find that odd, because they equate pro-gun people with anti-abortion positions. But I find those two things to be in contradiction.

If you want the right to own a potentially deadly firearm, that should be a free personal choice which comes with responsibility. Likewise, if you want to have a deadly abortion, up to a point, that also should be a free personal choice with great responsibility. The bottom line for me is personal freedom, rather than trying to tell others what they can and cannot do.

But let's not turn this into an abortion debate.

[JohnRich 4]

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The tendency to play show and tell needs to be tempered with a certain amount of good judgment and caution. Playing with (showing off) firearms in the parking lot doesn't fall into that category.

So says you.

There is nothing incompatible about showing someone else a gun in a DZ parking lot, and using good judgement and caution. They can occur together, despite your personal belief to the contrary.

[ReBirth 0]

John....I'm on your side with this...but are you going to respond to every post individually? Just curious.

[rehmwa 2]

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>Right, but there were about 30 bushes in the area, and I figured he had at most one round. The odds were with me.

My cartoon bubble is a variant of Bruce Lee in the hall of mirrors

except it's BV (with a duck's body) still with the big claws scratches and flexing - in the Hall of Bushes

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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why did you not take the gun from him and rack it to remove any possible chambered round? i wouldn't have trusted the dude to even walk it back to it's "hiding place." (not to second guess you or anything...)

Unclear what their ages were (guessing 16-17), but I certainly wouldn't walk TOWARDS a guy with a chambered round, finger on the trigger, and pointing it towards me. Until it's away from his hands, running like hell is the best course of action.

at 25ft away, hiding behind a bush, odds are decent that the guy would miss even if he wanted to hit Bill.

[billvon 3,120]

>My cartoon bubble is a variant of Bruce Lee in the hall of mirrors

My mental image is more the Monty Python film "How not to be seen."

[JohnRich 4]

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Are you really that concerned with your safety?
I mean... c'mon.. really.. how many people do you know who have actually HAD to use a gun in self-defense?

There are up to 2 million people per year in the U.S. who use a gun in self defense. "Use" does not necessarily mean fired. Simply displaying a gun most often sends attackers scurrying away.

In the United States in 2000...
- A murder is committed every 32 minutes.
- A forcible rape is committed every 5 minutes.
- A robbery is committed every 1 minute.
- A aggravated assault is committed every 35 seconds.
- A violent crime is committed every 22 seconds.

In the time it took you to read this message, someone has had their life changed forever by a violent crime.

You only have to use a gun once to save your life, to have been worth a lifetime of owning it and not using it.

[sinker 0]

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What you personally prefer doesn't count - you don't have the right to dictate to others.

Does that mean you are pro-choice?

To a point, yes.

Many people find that odd, because they equate pro-gun people with anti-abortion positions. But I find those two things to be in contradiction.

If you want the right to own a potentially deadly firearm, that should be a free personal choice which comes with responsibility. Likewise, if you want to have a deadly abortion, up to a point, that also should be a free personal choice with great responsibility. The bottom line for me is personal freedom, rather than trying to tell others what they can and cannot do.

But let's not turn this into an abortion debate.

interesting caveat... i see the owning of and willingness to use a firearm as an extension of my pro-life modus operandi. I will not let some one who has chosen a life of crime to deprive me or my loved ones of our God-given life. I will stand and fight for our lives, even if that means taking the life of someone who has chosen an evil path. I don't buy that shit of "it must have been God's will" that someone got raped or someone got murdered... He doesn't will that... and I sure as hell won't allow it if I have any say...

-the artist formerly known as sinker