Correct or Incorrect Ruling In Your Opinion

[rushmc 23]

From the 9th Curcit Court of Appeals

QUOTE: "There is no fundamental right of parents to be the exclusive provider of information regarding sexual matters to their children... Parents have no due process or privacy right to override the determinations of public schools as to the information to which their children will be exposed while enrolled as students."

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[EricTheRed 0]

Dead bang on.

Society has a duty to provide an education to children on all matters, including sexual health issues.

Go bark up another tree.

illegible usually

[wmw999 2,584]

So your contention is that if parents want to teach their children that babies come from storks that should be their right, and schools should just look the other way?

Nope. Sorry.

Yes, that's a ridiculous example, but it's one that would fit into the "exclusive" bucket. If the parents take the time to write a note, the vast majority of schools will let them opt their children out of certain discussions. They have to take the time to do it. The default is that they get the school-standard curriculum. Same goes for English, history, math, and, yes, biology.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SudsyFist 0]

Correct, in my opinion.

From a legal perspective (in simple terms), the school's gonna teach whatever the board has determined the school's gonna teach, which is not only influenced by state and federal fundage, but also by local constituents. Long story short, if you wish for change in the curriculum, you need to go to the board.

From a practical perspective, imagine the precedent this would set if they had ruled otherwise: parents (at the individual level) with free reign over custom curriculum adjustments (think contraversial subjects such as religion, science, even some aspects of social studies!) for their own kids. Chaos. Yikes!

[Channman 2]

Our friends from the 9th Cur. Court of Appeals have not been on planet earth very long. The trip from youranus [did I spell that right] was long. No court will ever trump my right as a parent when it comes to my girls.

From time to time I spend a great deal of time deprograming them when they return from school.

Home schooling and private schools will continue to grow there ranks, and you tend to have better educated children. Its to late for me, so save yourself.

[SudsyFist 0]

Quote

No court will ever trump my right as a parent when it comes to my girls.

What right did they trump?

[GTAVercetti 0]

The key here is "exclusive" provider.

Parents should not be the ONLY way for children to learn sex education. If we left such matters up to JUST parents, we would end up with many more children growing up with questions unanswered because many parents are embarassed to discuss such matters. And as we know, curiousity combined with ignorance does not usually lead to abstinence or responsible behavior.

Therefore, it is wise that parents are not the ONLY (this rulling says nothing about being SECONDARY) source. With strong parenting, anything that is taught in school can still be adjusted in the home. No right to be a parent has been lost.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[PhreeZone 20]

100% correct. If you went to the teacher and said "I am raising Sally to believe that by kissing a boy she can get pregnant, do not tell her anything different" do you think it is right to change the whole education of biology to suit the parent that requests this? How about a parent that requests that Billy be taught that the Earth was created in 7 days and things like Carbon dating are a lie? Should facts be over looked to help customize each childs education so they are only given the small amounts of knowledge you want them to have and nothing else?

Sex education is one of those topics that parents are usually uncomfortable talking about with their kids. It is an important topic that many parents are ill informed about (how do you think they became parents in the first place ). Youth today are having sex at ages that their parents would never have though about. I graduated high school less then 10 years ago and even then it was pretty common for 8th/9th graders to be having sex and their parents had no clue.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

Home schooling and private schools will continue to grow there ranks, and you tend to have better educated socially crippled, unable to function outside the world of Fundie Insular Thinking children. Its to late for me, so save yourself.

Fixed it for you.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 3,107]

Correct. Parents have a right to teach their children whatever they choose. They do not have the right to prevent their children from hearing anything they dislike.

[Darius11 12]

I wish I could give you a simple answer of yes or no but I can’t.

If I had two kids I might have to teach each of them at different stages in their life. All kids don’t mature at the same rate I think as a parent I would be able to make that decision better then a teacher.
I would have no problem with my children learning how life begins and the science of it all. But in matters related to sex not just the act but when you decide to have sex, why, and the emotional attachment that goies along with it I would not want any one else but me or the kids mother to teach them.


i guess for me it's not black and white

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Channman 2]

Thanks man, with people like you hanging around, who needs friends.

[rushmc 23]

I only asked for opinions but since you brought it up.

If your family believes in waiting until marrage. Should a school be allowed to give kids training on how to use condoms. What if that family did not believe in birth control because of thier religions. Is it right for a school to teach them about birth control? Seperation of church and state?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Correct. Parents have a right to teach their children whatever they choose. They do not have the right to prevent their children from hearing anything they dislike.

Do parents have a right to teach their children how to pick pockets, run a scam, cheat on exams, hobble a horse at the track, bypass emissions controls on their car...?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

So your contention is that if parents want to teach their children that babies come from storks that should be their right, and schools should just look the other way?

Nope. Sorry.

Yes, that's a ridiculous example, but it's one that would fit into the "exclusive" bucket. If the parents take the time to write a note, the vast majority of schools will let them opt their children out of certain discussions. They have to take the time to do it. The default is that they get the school-standard curriculum. Same goes for English, history, math, and, yes, biology.

Wendy W.

Surely "Storkism" deserves equal time in science classes! Babies coming from sexual relations is only a theory, after all.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,107]

>What if that family did not believe in birth control because of thier
>religions. Is it right for a school to teach them about birth control?

Yes. Same reason it's OK to teach biology if a family believes in creationism. Same reason it's OK to teach the 'all men are created equal' phrase from the Declaration of Independence even if a family believes in white supremacy. Same reason it's OK to teach that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK even if a family thinks the CIA did it.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

The key here is "exclusive" provider.

Parents should not be the ONLY way for children to learn sex education. If we left such matters up to JUST parents, we would end up with many more children growing up with questions unanswered because many parents are embarassed to discuss such matters. And as we know, curiousity combined with ignorance does not usually lead to abstinence or responsible behavior.

Therefore, it is wise that parents are not the ONLY (this rulling says nothing about being SECONDARY) source. With strong parenting, anything that is taught in school can still be adjusted in the home. No right to be a parent has been lost.

You make so many wrong statements here I don't even know where to start..................................................so I won't

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Same reason it's OK to teach that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK even if a family thinks the CIA did it.

Kennedy is dead, which is proof the CIA wasn't involved in the assassination.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

...even if the families religion is against what is being taught?

The state shall make no law.........?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GTAVercetti 0]

Quote

Quote

The key here is "exclusive" provider.

Parents should not be the ONLY way for children to learn sex education. If we left such matters up to JUST parents, we would end up with many more children growing up with questions unanswered because many parents are embarassed to discuss such matters. And as we know, curiousity combined with ignorance does not usually lead to abstinence or responsible behavior.

Therefore, it is wise that parents are not the ONLY (this rulling says nothing about being SECONDARY) source. With strong parenting, anything that is taught in school can still be adjusted in the home. No right to be a parent has been lost.

You make so many wrong statements here I don't even know where to start..................................................so I won't

Right. Good response.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,107]

>...even if the families religion is against what is being taught?

Heck yes. Because someone is an atheist who doesn't believe in God doesn't mean you can't teach the Declaration of Independence.

>The state shall make no law.........?

. . . respecting an establishment of religion. Right.

[rushmc 23]

I think atheism is a religion.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SudsyFist 0]

Quote

I think atheism is a religion.......

"Who's that tripping across my bridge?"

[rasmack 0]

Quote

... And as we know, curiousity combined with ignorance does not usually lead to abstinence or responsible behavior.

This deserves repeating.

That being said maybe there is a discussion in whether there is an implicit endorsement of "secular" or even atheistic values in applying this pragmatic point of view to public education. I already have a head ache...
My own solution to a school that tried to enforce a curriculum to which I did not agree (intelligent design for example ) would be simple: Find another school.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[wmw999 2,584]

The thing is that you can come up with enough contradictory religions if you try that the schools will end up teaching very little.

A literal Bible believer will have a different history from a literal Torah believer, and a literal Muslim, and a literal Hindu. They are mutually exclusive histories in some areas.

And a religion can choose anything to make a symbol. Jews go to schools where children are fed pork and all kinds of food that are not kosher. Some of those kids keep kosher. Is it the school's responsibility to feed them according to their religion? no, and they don't see it that way either.

They are in charge of the food in those cases. Their kids are taught that they just don't eat that food. Their kids are exposed to Easter season, and Christmas season (yeah, we call it "holiday" but it's all about Christmas).

If a parent wants their child to learn that sex should not happen before marriage then they teach them about that. If learning about birth control threatens their control, then they're not using their positive values as a way to teach their children, but fear instead.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)