kallend 2,150 #26 November 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's been proven that blacks do worse at standardized testing because there is cultural bias in the questions. Do the studies note which areas have cultural bias? I have a hard time with the idea concerning real questions like math and science stuff, . Wendell took a group of his prep school classmates to a polo match in an enclosed arena. One team had a substitute along. They counted a total of 54 legs. How many classmates accompanied Wendell?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #27 November 8, 2005 QuoteIt's been proven that blacks do worse at standardized testing because there is cultural bias in the questions. The same holds true for text books and curriculum. What it means is adjusting the curriculum to account for cultural differences How does a black mind differ from a white mind? The thing with education is that there is a standard set. People must meet that standard to get good grades. So you are saying that blacks can not do the same type of adapting that whites must do? I know several people who come from other countries with different lauguages and different cultures. Yet they manage to adapt to the "white way" of thinking. I think the most racist comment I have ever seen was the one you just typed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #28 November 8, 2005 No, what he's saying is that whites generally don't have to adapt as much. However, a black person and a white person from the same background and socioeconomic status would have the same adaptation issues. It's much more a socioeconomic issue than a race/culture/color issue. However, in large cities, many poorer people are minorities. I think that's what the article was trying to get at. The population of the school will be predominantly black because the area surrounding the school and the population of the feeder school is predominantly black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #29 November 8, 2005 Try reeading what I said about cultural bias before you label me as a racist. Nice try at twisting things around though. Recognizing how cultural differences may impede the learning process is realistic, not racist. Pretending there's no probem is ignorant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #30 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's been proven that blacks do worse at standardized testing because there is cultural bias in the questions. The same holds true for text books and curriculum. What it means is adjusting the curriculum to account for cultural differences How does a black mind differ from a white mind? The thing with education is that there is a standard set. People must meet that standard to get good grades. So you are saying that blacks can not do the same type of adapting that whites must do? I know several people who come from other countries with different lauguages and different cultures. Yet they manage to adapt to the "white way" of thinking. I think the most racist comment I have ever seen was the one you just typed. Can you answer the word problem I provided a few posts back if it turned up on a test? If not, it's because of cultural bias - anyone in the polo set could answer it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #31 November 8, 2005 QuoteNo, what he's saying is that whites generally don't have to adapt as much Asians have to adapt more, and they do fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #32 November 8, 2005 QuoteRecognizing how cultural differences may impede the learning process is realistic, not racist. Pretending there's no probem is ignorant. Asians have more of a cultural difference, yet they do very well. Ignoring that Mom and Dad are the biggest factors in a childs education is ignorant. Plaming the problem on tests is shifting the blame from the family to "The Man" and is just that, a blame shift. Would you feel better if the tests in high school were ebonic? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #33 November 8, 2005 QuoteCan you answer the word problem I provided a few posts back if it turned up on a test? If not, it's because of cultural bias - anyone in the polo set could answer it. That test question would not make it onto a standardized test. But if you were to substitute a basketball team/football team, then you would be in fact doing the same thing in reverse. So, what can you use as a guage? Not everyone has the same background. You claim to be a professor. Do you not write your questions better than that? You above all should know that any standard test will include the information needed to answer it in the question. However, are you wishing to down dumb the tests, or increase the level of education? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #34 November 8, 2005 QuoteAsians have more of a cultural difference, yet they do very well. The U.S.A. has been beating the crap out of black folks for 400 years, and that is THE cultural factor that doesn't apply to any other group -- including asians. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #35 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteCan you answer the word problem I provided a few posts back if it turned up on a test? If not, it's because of cultural bias - anyone in the polo set could answer it. That test question would not make it onto a standardized test. But if you were to substitute a basketball team/football team, then you would be in fact doing the same thing in reverse. So, what can you use as a guage? Not everyone has the same background. You claim to be a professor. Do you not write your questions better than that? You above all should know that any standard test will include the information needed to answer it in the question. However, are you wishing to down dumb the tests, or increase the level of education? You are wrong. Standardized tests have included questions that assume culture specific knowledge for years and years. You don't see it because you are part of the dominant culture and you choose to live in denial because it suits your worldview. Try these. And take a look at this.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #36 November 8, 2005 QuoteI see no mentioning of segregation. Just someone placing a school where it is needed. If this place is populated by a lot of people with highly pigmented skin, well so be it. That area of Chicago, for the most part, is mostly minorites. The graduation rate is terrible and the mortality rate of those that leave is even worse. It is an issue that has been a topic for many years. Is it right or wrong? Eh, I'm not going down that road as too many uneducated opinions will stem from that. However, something needed to be done - I'm curious to see if this will have a positive outcome. I hope it does._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #37 November 8, 2005 QuoteAsians have more of a cultural difference, yet they do very well. However, it is a different culture. This may sound cliche, but it is very hard to make it out of those neighborhoods. Not because the children there are sub-par, but many things are missing to help them get to the next step, too many things missing for their parents, etc....and too many strong negative incluences that are often too much for any young mind to overcome. I didn't understand this until I spent a couple summers living in those neighborhoods and spending time in their lives. This post would be far too long to explain everything I experienced those summers....but I saw enough to know that most people giving an opinion in this thread have no idea what they are talking about._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #38 November 8, 2005 >How does a black mind differ from a white mind? It does not. But a child raised in environment A will often have a different mind from a child raised in environment B. It is easy for an american child (or one raised in an american environment) to answer a question like "how many touchdowns did Team A score if they won the football game 28 to 0?" It would be harder for a child raised in a russian environment to answer the same question. (The same goes the other way too, of course. You'd probably do poorly on cricket questions.) Note that nowhere above did race or color enter into the picture. It's about the environment the child is raised in, and the raw materials he is given (i.e. how much brainpower he has.) >The thing with education is that there is a standard set. People must >meet that standard to get good grades. Of course. But you would likely do very poorly in a school if you did not understand the language used there, at least until you learned it. Even then you might not do as well as other people there who were raised with that language. That would not be evidence that you're dumb, just that you have the wrong background for that particular school. Indeed, you might even be tempted to go to a special school where they can help you get specific education to deal with your 'problem.' >Yet they manage to adapt to the "white way" of thinking. >I think the most racist comment I have ever seen was the one you just typed. Did you really type those two sentences with a straight face? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #39 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteNo, what he's saying is that whites generally don't have to adapt as much Asians have to adapt more, and they do fine. Generally, there isn't as much of a difference in socioeconomic status between asians and whites as there is between whites and blacks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #40 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's been proven that blacks do worse at standardized testing because there is cultural bias in the questions. Do the studies note which areas have cultural bias? I have a hard time with the idea concerning real questions like math and science stuff, . Wendell took a group of his prep school classmates to a polo match in an enclosed arena. One team had a substitute along. They counted a total of 54 legs. How many classmates accompanied Wendell? Three classmates accompanied Wendell. Horse/rider = 6 legs. 54/6=9 Wendell/classmates - 4 horses/riders Opposing team - 4 horses/riders and one sub = 5Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #41 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIt's been proven that blacks do worse at standardized testing because there is cultural bias in the questions. Do the studies note which areas have cultural bias? I have a hard time with the idea concerning real questions like math and science stuff, . Wendell took a group of his prep school classmates to a polo match in an enclosed arena. One team had a substitute along. They counted a total of 54 legs. How many classmates accompanied Wendell? Three classmates accompanied Wendell. Horse/rider = 6 legs. 54/6=9 Wendell/classmates - 4 horses/riders Opposing team - 4 horses/riders and one sub = 5 Wrong. (Bet you had to look it up but you missed the part about the enclosed arena)!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #42 November 8, 2005 QuoteSo...less intelligent kids are what? Not deserving of assistance? Should be left by the wayside? I can't believe you actually mean that. What a terrible concept. Although, kids should be able to advance based on their abilities, we shouldn't leave any of them behind like you seem to be proposing. (I'd have a terrible time answering questions based on polo or cricket - but neither has to do with race, but class. Which we continue to come back to.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #43 November 8, 2005 Didn't look anything up....don't see what the enclosed arena has to do with it, in context... If you don't count the horses, Wendell took 12 classmates...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #44 November 8, 2005 I had to look it up but in an enclosed arena teams are limited to 3 players per side. 3 players per side + 1 sub = 7 people = 14 legs 6 horses = 24 legs Player and horse leg count = 38 8 additional people went. 15 people, 6 horses. I think.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #45 November 8, 2005 Ummm....that was sarcasm in response to your comment that if kids are intelligent and work hard they won't have a problem so nothing needs to change. The point is, they aren't all intelligent, so education needs to be adjusted for those less intelligent. And you're the one that keeps going back to race. We're talking about cultural differences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #46 November 8, 2005 QuoteI had to look it up but in an enclosed arena teams are limited to 3 players per side. 3 players per side + 1 sub = 7 people = 14 legs 6 horses = 24 legs Player and horse leg count = 38 8 additional people went. 15 people, 6 horses. I think. Ah, that explains the significance of the arena statement....Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #47 November 8, 2005 Thats a perfect question to show cultural bias. First you are relying on someone to know the rules of a game. To a certian segment of the population they can tell you the finer points of the rules but everyone else does'nt know them. Then you are relying on the audience to know details about outside influences, in this case what a substitue is. I'm not sure if the subustitue means just a rider or if its another horse too. Then you are relying on the test taker to know what a horse is. If you go to intercity Chicago there is probally a segment that may have only seen a horse on TV or possibly in a picture somewhere. Others might just know its an animal, and still others might think its just a house misspelled. If you walk up to a stranger and say "A 4 way open class skydiving team won the US Nationals, how many gold medals do the judges need to get?" How many people are going to have the right answer?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #48 November 8, 2005 Actually, there are plenty of extremely intelligent children in poor urban areas, but there is such a disparity in the schools that from a very early age those kids are quite simply not given the same educational opportunities that kids from more aflfuent areas get. Some of it is social and cultural but most stems from the way public schools are funded. Class sizes, student teacher ratios, availibility of books and other equipment- the differences are staggering. I actually think reaching out to these youths in high school is too late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #49 November 8, 2005 QuoteThe U.S.A. has been beating the crap out of black folks for 400 years, and that is THE cultural factor that doesn't apply to any other group -- including asians. Interment camps in WW2. There goes your theory. People like you would rather blame anything other than the person and their family. Ask a teacher whet the #1 influence in a childs ability to learn is. They will not say "Race". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #50 November 8, 2005 QuoteYou are wrong. Standardized tests have included questions that assume culture specific knowledge for years and years True, I took a test that assumed that I know how many baseball players on a team. But that is a different claim you just made than the one about polo. QuoteYou don't see it because you are part of the dominant culture and you choose to live in denial because it suits your worldview. How do you know what race/color I am? Is it in the way I type? And who said I live in denial. I would rather people focus on what can be changed, not 400 year old history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
