AlexCrowley 0 #51 November 9, 2005 Maybe you missed that 2000+ page topic about Christianity where there were a significant number of Christians who were very vocal on their views about the existence of God and got a little upset when questions were asked about him. America is considered a Christian nation. Do Muslim societies look at us and make similar assumptions based on the limited exposure they have of the US (apparently so, at least thats what the terrorist recruiting propoganda claims is happening - Christians trying to destroy the Muslims in a holy war....remember the 'crusade' debacle at the start of the Iraq war?) The muslims I do know from the middle east (lebanese and iraqi shia muslims) talk about, and practice, their religion no more fanatically than most 'moderate' christians I know - in fact, from the evangelising on this forum from time to time - they are a great deal LESS scary and more open to discussing Islam and far more tolerant of assholes like me asking somewhat blasphemous questions about their beliefs. Extremists make the news, be they anti-abortion murderers, southern baptists boycotting disney or muslims who run around blowing shit up. Please dont think Im trying to draw an absolute parallel, I agree that Islamic countries do tend to have a more visible faith than US Christianity. However, I think US christianity is not a benchmark for all christianity. There are many christian countries where the faith is practiced as devoutly and a majority as you'll see Islam practiced in predominantly muslim countries. Just like US Christianity, there's a great deal of difference between a muslim society like Afghanistan under the Taliban and Indonesia. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #52 November 9, 2005 QuoteMaybe you missed that 2000+ page topic about Christianity where there were a significant number of Christians who were very vocal on their views about the existence of God and got a little upset when questions were asked about him. I usually make a point of skipping long-winded religious threads. To me arguing about religion is as pointless as arguing about atheism. Quote America is considered a Christian nation. So I hear. I find that amusing. If the US (in general) worships anything, it would be money, power, and image. Quote Do Muslim societies look at us and make similar assumptions based on the limited exposure they have of the US (apparently so, at least thats what the terrorist recruiting propoganda claims is happening - Christians trying to destroy the Muslims in a holy war....remember the 'crusade' debacle at the start of the Iraq war?) I well remember the 'crusade' comment discussion. A Turkish (and Muslim) friend and I got into quite a heated discussion about that. My contention was that only religious people could find a way to believe something as retarded as "W's" remark hinting at a religious war against all of Islam. I explained to him that the US government is fueled by greed far more than ideology. He has a hard time accepting that, though. As for what Muslim cultures think of the "Christian" US, all I can say is that whatever negative thoughts they have is almost certainly a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Quote The muslims I do know from the middle east (lebanese and iraqi shia muslims) talk about, and practice, their religion no more fanatically than most 'moderate' christians I know - in fact, from the evangelising on this forum from time to time - they are a great deal LESS scary and more open to discussing Islam and far more tolerant of assholes like me asking somewhat blasphemous questions about their beliefs. The real test would be seeing how they react to an asshole like ME questioning their religion. Not likely to happen, though, because I'm not likely to waste my breath questioning anyone's religion. Quote Extremists make the news, be they anti-abortion murderers, southern baptists boycotting disney or muslims who run around blowing shit up. For sure. Bad news sells. Quote Just like US Christianity, there's a great deal of difference between a muslim society like Afghanistan under the Taliban and Indonesia. Maybe not such a good example. Comparing Afghanistan to Turkey--now *there* is a difference, but I get your point. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #53 November 9, 2005 Quote Quote America is considered a Christian nation. So I hear. I find that amusing. If the US (in general) worships anything, it would be money, power, and image. Thanks Walt. Actually I find your view interesting. As an alien here I find both points to be absolutely correct. The "religious right" (whatever that is) has enough influence that it is very very visible. I find the religious environment in the US to be very overt and militant compared to those areas of Europe I've spent time in (Uk, Germany, Northern Italy) and discussions I have had while involved in the church (roughly a lifetime ago). The US is like a vinyl album thats multi-grooved, you can be standing next to someone thats hearing an entirely different song than the one that you found when you put the needle on the record. Which is one of the reasons I find America such a cool place to be. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #54 November 9, 2005 QuoteThe US is like a vinyl album thats multi-grooved, you can be standing next to someone thats hearing an entirely different song than the one that you found when you put the needle on the record. Which is one of the reasons I find America such a cool place to be. Yeah, but when you play it backwards at half-speed, you hear the Satanic messages while simultaneously getting exposed to the government mind-control rays. I should add that when I say that the US government is fueled largely by greed, that doesn't mean I hate the US. I love my country, but I am intensely suspicious of the people who run it. There is a class war going on in this country that seems to go largely ignored. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #55 November 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote Islam is unique in the sense that the religion is also a political point of view and muslims' lives are dictated by that view. Say what?? He's got somewhat of a point. At least publicly, Muslims aren't exactly world-class independent thinkers. Privately, of course, they are at least as hypocritical as any other religious people. Walt That's not what I was trying to point out. What I was saying is that Islam is unique compared to other religions when it comes to the dictation of politics, economics, etc. The Catholic, Jewish and other religions to not dictate a political point of view or behavior in terms of dealing with other people or other nations. Islam permeates all of those facets. That's why there aren't political parties in the traditional sense, only varying levels of reforms within a religion. While a parallel could be drawn, it really doesn't match up.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #56 November 9, 2005 QuoteThe Catholic, Jewish and other religions to not dictate a political point of view or behavior in terms of dealing with other people or other nationsHaven't spent much time with seriously conservative Baptists, have you? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #57 November 9, 2005 Max, IMHO ALL religians are political. All religions get involved in politics, economics and socialogical issues. We have a country that was founded on excaping religious pursecution. The US (a long time ago) believed that the right to practice or not practice your religion was god given (yes it is ironic, but not meant as a pun). What could be more political than leaving one country to start another? Even if the idea was to just practice religion it is in our natural evolution to become political and power hungry. (side note; keep your head down and be safe, do look into some of the history while your there if you can, with my position I was able to do that and it help to understand the people by knowing the history, you will see your supported by the citizens a lot more than the press would let you belive.)An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #58 November 9, 2005 Quote Yeah, but when you play it backwards at half-speed, you hear the Satanic messages while simultaneously getting exposed to the government mind-control rays. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
