The state of our futures: World vs Muslim militants

[BillyVance 35]

I got this email from a good friend of mine who is a fellow skydiver and a U.S. Marine (retired) as well as a Vietnam Veteran and survivor of at least 3 shoot-downs in his fighter/bomber jet... He okay'ed my request to post it on here... I love the guy, he would bend over backward to help a friend.

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To the Greatest Friends and Family a man could ask for...

Tonight I celebrated my thirty-fifth Marine Corps Ball. Like all those birthday ceremonies before it, I was awestruck by the caliber of brave Americans who have in the past and who are currently challenging themselves by becoming a United States Marine. Many may smirk at this statement, but if they do it’s only because they don’t possess the guts, fortitude and adventurous spirit to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Every Marine is as different as the experiences that were thrown their way. For me to be a part of anything this wonderful and be able to share it with friends and loved ones is truly a gift from God.

On this 230th Marine Corps birthday, I can’t help but reflect on everything that has happened in my lifetime since I reported for O.C.S. in Quantico, VA in the summer of 1969. And more importantly I think about all that I am now seeing and reading about in the world we live in today. If you just want to be "happy," delusional and live an "ostrich" (head in the ground) type lifestyle, you may wish to ignore this message now. If you're interested in the cold, hard facts about what I very strongly feel is the state of all of our futures, you may want to read Cap'n Jimbo's annual political commentary. If you have a serious comment, I would love to hear it!

To get out of a difficult situation, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII). The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?
Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.
(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?
25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?
Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler, that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?
There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question -
What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is: We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and submissive to them. We would of course have no future support from other nations , for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!
If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost. Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united , there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head. Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets , not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read. If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

These are serious threats that we can't leave for the Marines to handle alone. We are all responsible for providing the necessary backbone. We are facing another great threat from illegal immigrants, but I'll leave that for another day. After Gov. Schwarzenegger calls me, I'll work on Mexifornia's problems.

Semper Fi & Blue Skies...
Cap'n Jimbo Wilson

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[crozby 0]

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2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms.

That is far too complex for me. I think the muslims attack the USA because they are evil.

[billvon 3,090]

>2. Why were we attacked?
>Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms.

Right. And we attack them because we envy their dedication to their cause.

It's really not hard to figure out why they are fighting us. We're killing them. You would fight an occupier who killed off your friends and family too. Those fighters don't hate us because we have a representative form of government, they hate us because we kill them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>2. Why were we attacked?
>Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms.

Right. And we attack them because we envy their dedication to their cause.

It's really not hard to figure out why they are fighting us. We're killing them. You would fight an occupier who killed off your friends and family too. Those fighters don't hate us because we have a representative form of government, they hate us because we kill them.

They (whatever that means)also hate us because we are trying to bring Democracy to the ME and they would rather have an Islamic Theocracy.

[billvon 3,090]

>They (whatever that means)also hate us because we are trying to bring
>Democracy to the ME and they would rather have an Islamic Theocracy.

That's a load of crap. Seeing your kids blown to bits trumps political philosophy any day. I pray you will never have the occasion to compare the two.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>They (whatever that means)also hate us because we are trying to bring
>Democracy to the ME and they would rather have an Islamic Theocracy.

That's a load of crap. Seeing your kids blown to bits trumps political philosophy any day. I pray you will never have the occasion to compare the two.

Oh??? And you purport to know the marital status of all the muslims fighting against us? Please honor us with this information.

[billvon 3,090]

>And you purport to know the marital status of all the muslims fighting against us?

I'll bet you $100 that all the muslims fighting against us have children, siblings and/or parents.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>And you purport to know the marital status of all the muslims fighting against us?

I'll bet you $100 that all the muslims fighting against us have children, siblings and/or parents.

Sure you don't want to think this through?

[speedy 0]

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I'll bet you $100 that all the muslims fighting against us have children, siblings and/or parents.

Wow, even I did not think there are test tube terrorist's. Of course they have parents. The parents are the ones training them as four year olds on how to become a suicide bomber.

edit for spilling.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[beowulf 1]

These Muslim terrorist are not fighting for anything near as noble as what you state. They are fighting to spread Islam. If the US pulled out of every Muslim country and made sure to never kill any Muslims it would not end the terrorists campaign to spread Islam. Jihad translated means effort in gods service. They believe as many Muslims generations before beleived that it is their god given obligation to conquer all nations and make the world Muslim.

[crozby 0]

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If the US pulled out of every Muslim country and made sure to never kill any Muslims it would not end the terrorists campaign to spread Islam.

That is a total assumption. €But me and many millions of people world-wide would like to see the US pull out of every Muslim country just to see if what you say is true.

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They believe as many Muslims generations before beleived that it is their god given obligation to conquer all nations and make the world Muslim.

Ummm, I think you're getting mixed up with the communists. Wasn't it the ruskies that were meant to be taking over the world? That turned out to be a bunch of bullshit too. It's sad that people still fall for that line of propaganda.

[matthewcline 0]

Dedicated, fanatic or Extremist.

I go with extremist.

Why?

I was in Iraq and other places. The "fighters" I talked to for the most part (low guess easliy over 60%) did not come from the country we happened to be in.

Most had little knowledge of the world events prior to their capture. They did know of the World Trade Center and Pentagon, but very oblically.

Most of their knowledge was also very one sided and out right false (I think that even the most jaded anit-GWOT wound agree if they could read or listen to some of the interviews). According to most of the ones I spoke to the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks where a "counter attack", some even believed it to be for the '91 Gulf War.

We where attacked (and will be attacked again) because in the Extremists mind we "Infidels" have our position, success and freedoms at the expense of the Muslim world.

Yes the Koran is written peacfully and if the "fighters" all had the literacy skills we in this forum have we would more than likely get along fairly well. I am not saying that Muslims ar not educated, but that the "fighters" are not properly educated. (yes I will concede it is the "propoganda education" that we use to a degree too)

I do not think we attack them do to their dedication to the "cause", I think we attack them to avoid losing more inocent people in an attack against the peace loving members of the world.

If you accept (just for the point of the agrument) that the "fighters" that are being killed are not all Iraqi, than maybe we could look at the situation in a different light.

Are the Iranian, Syrian, Turkish, Suadi, Kuwaiti, Lybian, etc. etc. "fighters" who are being killed defending their family? their way of life? or trying to keep the "infidels" from spreading to their country?

Several I talked to actually believe we are trying to take over the whole middle east and delete the Muslim Religion. I believe this is due to the education (prpoganda) they recieved from the "extremists" who recruited them.

Hope fully we can get a better policy and better understanding of the world and act properly, before we end up tearing our selves apart.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[mr2mk1g 10]

Tell your friend it's a re-post from 18 months ago: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1163732

[ReBirth 0]

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We where attacked (and will be attacked again) because in the Extremists mind we "Infidels" have our position, success and freedoms at the expense of the Muslim world.

Exactly...we've been propping up the monarchies that repress these people for generations. We get in bed with dictators so that we can trade with them (have access to their oil). People claim they are jealous of our freedom and way of life. They don't know shit about our freedom or way of life. They know about their oppression and poverty and see that we are allied with the regimes exploting them.

[vpozzoli 0]

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2. Why were we attacked?
Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms.
...

He left out "shameless arrogance and superior attitude"

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1. When did the threat to us start?
Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.
(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).
[...]
[...]
3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

This is priceless. He compiles a selective list of terrorist attacks carried out agains the US by Muslim terrorists (which does not automatically imply that they were religiously motivated, BTW) and then points out that said attacks were all carried out by muslims. This is tautological and also very cheap rhetoric. In the time span he refers to there were plenty of terrorist attacks agains the US NOT carried out by muslims, some were even carried out by Americans. Maybe they were also jealous of the US?

Ciao,

Vale

[vpozzoli 0]

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They (whatever that means)also hate us because we are trying to bring Democracy to the ME and they would rather have an Islamic Theocracy.

Spot on! And what makes the US think they are so superior to other peoples that they feel they can interfere in their affairs and expect to be praised for their boundless arrogance?
FYI I am an atheist and do not support any Theocracy whatsoever (not just an Islamic one), but I also respect the right of other peoples to decide for themselves without undue external interference.

Ciao.

Vale

[wmw999 2,560]

Someone else already picked up that it's a repeat.
Here is another face of Islamics. Funny, they sound just like everyone else. Concerned about where they live.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AlexCrowley 0]

[For the impatient: yadda yadday, kill people, help people, try not to be a fuckhead yadda yadda]

[sorry this ran long, it was just a way to think about things 'out loud', and I hoped others would have the patience to get thru it and share some other ideas]

First, thank you for posting this this is possibly the best post I've seen on the subject - certainly the clearest opinion I've read pretty much anywhere. I think it captures both sides of the equation perfectly.

Please don't consider what follows a direct critique of your experience, just more a case of me running with the ball ....

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Dedicated, fanatic or Extremist.

I go with extremist.

........They did know of the World Trade Center and Pentagon, but very oblically...... According to most of the ones I spoke to the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks where a "counter attack", some even believed it to be for the '91 Gulf War.

This really is the mirror of many of the pro-war US opinions you can read in any of the threads regarding the war. On this side we have the 'they all want to destroy us! it's because they envy our freedoms'. Propoganda and indoctrination dont have to be in your face - most of it's subtle, something that gently shapes opinion so the opinion holder believes they came to that conclusion themselves.

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We where attacked (and will be attacked again) because in the Extremists mind we "Infidels" have our position, success and freedoms at the expense of the Muslim world.

Rightly or wrongly from our perspective a dispassionate review of history certainly would allow for that interpretation - more so with the US and it's fondness for manipulating local politics for it's own benefit. Please, dont mistake that for a judgement call because it isnt, it's simply an observation.

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Yes the Koran is written peacfully and if the "fighters" all had the literacy skills we in this forum have we would more than likely get along fairly well. I am not saying that Muslims ar not educated, but that the "fighters" are not properly educated. (yes I will concede it is the "propoganda education" that we use to a degree too)

Absolutely, I'd say that the US and UK forces have their fair share of citizens and soldiers who'll fight for an ideology or religion. Again, a dispassionate review of many of the threads here demonstrate that very clearly. Few people will die for money...it always amazes me when I see people argue that the following Goerring quote is not applicable to the War on Terror - again, check out many of the posts on terrorism and muslims and let me know if you think I"m off the mark..."it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Perhaps its because the quote itself is so overt and crude - bringing home a coarse truth about manipulation, something in conflict with the subtleties I mentioned earlier.

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I do not think we attack them due to their dedication to the "cause", ...If you accept (just for the point of the agrument) that the "fighters" that are being killed are not all Iraqi, than maybe we could look at the situation in a different light.....? or trying to keep the "infidels" from spreading to their country?

Youre correct, why would anyone want to travel across borders, even to new continents to fight against the spread of an alien ideology.......who am I talking about again?

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Several I talked to actually believe we are trying to take over the whole middle east and delete the Muslim Religion. I believe this is due to the education (prpoganda) they recieved from the "extremists" who recruited them.

This is where I tend to diverge from the mainstream thinking of 'kill 'em all' - as you mentioned below....There are always extremists in every situation. No one has the same opinions and reducing anything to a dualistic black/white is a very dangerous game where you start to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I thought the original post had some interesting points but also fell into this 'muslims bad, freeworld good' trap. That post took a number of disparate threads, concepts and situations and tried to sew them all neatly together into an easy to digest meal that 'proves' we need to kill everyone - right now!

I hate even trying to discuss this stuff because I dont like to label people in that way either - basically I feel that there are a great number of people in the US who would like to have this simplistic and easy to understand model of how the world works - it stops any need for thought, any need to examine our own prejudices and morality. By labelling a religion as evil it's now an easy situation of going out and killing the darkie, if the guy has blond hair and blue eyes he's on your side.

Where is this any different than those on the other side? Where is this making us any better than the extremists? The "free world" likes to stand up and say that it is on the cutting edge of freedom and justice yet does nothing to differentiate itself from the vile thugs it condemns.

The situation isnt simple. In answer to the first post: there are democratic countries that are predominantly muslim. The lack of democracy in most muslim states has its roots in it's society and its history, not it's religion. I understand that most here couldnt give a fuck about what is easy to label 'relativism' but I think we're seeing the fruits of cultural ignorance in this situation.

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Hope fully we can get a better policy and better understanding of the world and act properly, before we end up tearing our selves apart.

Exactly. As much as many would like to put me into the 'liberal left-wing bastard' box I dont see suing for peace as a legitimate way towards progress. However, I dont agree that bombing the tits off the world is constructive either.

In answer to all those who's mantra is 'well I see you bitching but I dont see you proposing any solutions.....'...

I think those involved are well aware of the real complexities and stakes, based on publicly available reviews of terrorist intel the game itself has been defined for at least the last 15 years (can't agree with the original posters timeline, as officially it really wasnt considered a major issue until the late 80s/90s....of course, contradictory info is always welcome - this is just based on what I've read).

Because of this complexity:
1. Fuck the UN. It's role is what it always has been - a nice public face on the real game. Instead continue to build real relationships with interested parties, including a few more muslims - and dont fuck them over when you dont think anyone else is watching :)

2. better PR. The problem with over simplified bullshit excuses is that very few societies can manage to tolerate them for very long. See: Spain, UK, most of europe. Don't mistake it for pacifism and socialism - any society can be made to feel justified to go to war - Bullshit stories simply alienate the public. (Sorry Americans, thats why most are against the war, if you want to play a symphony you use a professional orchestra, not a junior highschool jazz band - no matter how much you love those kids you can only fool yourself for the first few bars that it's not absolutely fucking horrendous.) Yes complexity sucks for mass messaging, however you're not just communicating to white christians, you're talking to the rest of the muslim world. "OBL is a fuckhead because he is a bad man" doesnt help anyone and simply plays into his hands (the religious war that he wanted). Hitler was a white vegetarian Catholic but I think most people would agree that he was an evil massmurdering fuckhead. I dont think white people are the only people who can grasp the concept that perhaps that guy over there with the stick and the beard is a little loopy. If your mental dialog just said 'yeah but but they all agree with him' then see my earlier points on propoganda.

3. When Bush talked about overt and covert actions I sorta hoped he meant more on the covert side, instead it's been a hollywood light show. While it's great for homeland moral it simply proves to everyone that we are all violent fucktards who really are trying to fuck over the middle east for our own avaricious ends. Following up on point 2, there are a great deal of Muslims who think OBL and his ilk are fuckheads. Unfortunately he's a fuckhead who's saying 'The US are killing us because we're muslims, they wont stop til you're all dead or christian' and then show pictures of US tanks with snappy little slogans on them and newspaper stories about US servicemen trading pictures of muslim corpses for pornography (reference to www.nowthatsfuckedup.com's deal that hit the papers, it's a little inaccurate but reality isnt the issue here).

4. stop underestimating the power of media. Muslim extremists write video games where you get to kill americans, something like 'Quake: The Jihad Years'. Get muslims on your side, Radio Free Arabia is as laughable as Radio Free Europe. While we're sneaking around killing the evil fuckheads try getting into the local papers doing something nice. This does not mean have heavily armed US soldiers kiss babies, it means do something that makes a real difference, preferably without any US armed soldiers being anywhere near the photo opportunity. They're muslims, not retards - they're used to being lied to by leaders, they are going to be tough to convince.

5. better intelligence. stop fucking around with funding. get specialists out there, pay them whatever they needs, give them whatever else they need. It'll still cost less than it does to carpet bomb entire regions and creates less PR problems. If you really want to spend lots of cash you can use 3 times more remote drones when you start nailing the fuckers that your elite intelligence crew found.

6. Understand what can be resolved and what can't be. It's a long term strategy. Killing assholes is only one part of the true solution, the rest is a careful and sustained (multigenerationally) effort to reeducate. Use the US cultural attitude towards race, in the mainstream it is no longer tolerated. There are some holdouts who will never change, but I think 50 years to do a complete about face is a realistic goal. Does anyone really think that a War on Terror itself is going to last any less than that? Does anyone really believe that the constant loss of life isnt going to radicalize other muslims whom otherwise would not have gotten involved?

Any excuse the extremists can use to justify the war as an attack on someones way of life will be used to convince people to pick up guns and die for their beliefs. It's a way forward that merely guarantees further loss of life. It's a tactic used by both sides of the conflict.

If you got this far and believe that this is some liberal tosh about being anti-war and anti-military you may want to re-read it a few times.

Matthew, thanks for the thought provoking post.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[matthewcline 0]

Thanks, I am getting better at this SC stuff.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[rasmack 0]

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Thanks, I am getting better at this SC stuff.

What are you talking about?!? You just put together a nice, informed and balanced post. You obviously don't belong here.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[markd_nscr986 0]

Thanks for sharing your "on site" experiences/assessment with us ..........


Beats hell out of the armchair "warriors" dishing out their clueless bullshit as usual.......

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[matthewcline 0]

Damn.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[AlexCrowley 0]

"Beats hell out of the armchair "warriors" dishing out their clueless bullshit as usual....."

Did you think SC served any other purpose except as a repository for it?

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[markd_nscr986 0]

***Did you think SC served any other purpose except as a repository for it?




Brilliant!!!!

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[kallend 2,117]

Quote

I was in Iraq and other places. The "fighters" I talked to for the most part (low guess easliy over 60%) did not come from the country we happened to be in.

I find that to be a strange comment.
About 100% of the US and UK Armies in Iraq are not from Iraq either.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.