The Thanks France Gets...

[Trent 0]

... For having some of the most lenient immigration policies for N. African and the Middle East. The suburban arab and african youth in France have been on the verge of something like this since I was there in 1998 and 2000. The general population doesn't really like them, the government tries to support them under the social policies, and their numbers are growing incredibly fast. Best of luck to France in solving this social problem.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051106/ap_on_re_eu/france_rioting

It seems that anytime you have a bunch of morons rioting because "the man" is sticking it to them, they end up burning mostly their own shit. Having friends from some of those areas... I hope it'll work out soon, and I wish they could own guns!

Oh, hello again!

[ViperPilot 0]

I honestly can't do much but laugh. Yes, for the sake of the innocent civilians, I hope they get this thing stopped, but overall, ROFLMAO!

By the way, did anyone read about how Muslim teens doused a crippled 60 yr old woman in a propellant (while she was in her wheelchair, obviously) and set her ablaze? Wait, Islam is peaceful! Peaceful I say!

[Gravitymaster 0]

Wouldn't you just die if they ask the US for help. I know they won't but I'd love to hear Bush tell them to fuck off.

[ViperPilot 0]

Yep, nothing would be funnier than to watch France ask for help and the US to tell 'em to fuck off. That would be awesome.

[SudsyFist 0]

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By the way, did anyone read about how Muslim teens doused a crippled 60 yr old woman in a propellant (while she was in her wheelchair, obviously) and set her ablaze? Wait, Islam is peaceful! Peaceful I say!

Pathetically weak argument. Same could be said about Christians with regard to racial lynchings, hate crimes against gays, etc., and it would hold about as much water (read: none).

[Gravitymaster 0]

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By the way, did anyone read about how Muslim teens doused a crippled 60 yr old woman in a propellant (while she was in her wheelchair, obviously) and set her ablaze? Wait, Islam is peaceful! Peaceful I say!

Pathetically weak argument. Same could be said about Christians with regard to racial lynchings, hate crimes against gays, etc., and it would hold about as much water (read: none).

So are you are saying only Christians perpetrate racial lynchings and hate crimes against gays or are you saying the violence in France is being caused by those other than Muslims?

[SudsyFist 0]

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So are you are saying only Christians perpetrate racial lynchings and hate crimes against gays or are you saying the violence in France is being caused by those other than Muslims?

The first half of your comparison is broad, whereas the second half is specific to a particular incident. Try again, perhaps?

[waltappel 1]

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I honestly can't do much but laugh. Yes, for the sake of the innocent civilians, I hope they get this thing stopped, but overall, ROFLMAO!

By the way, did anyone read about how Muslim teens doused a crippled 60 yr old woman in a propellant (while she was in her wheelchair, obviously) and set her ablaze? Wait, Islam is peaceful! Peaceful I say!

I'm not a fan of Islam or any other religion, but from what I have read, religion isn't a big issue in this situation. The fact that they are Muslim seems to be incidental. The real issue seems to be something like:

* Arabs tend to be very hot-headed and volatile, especially young men. Yes, I know that this describes young men of all ethnicities in general, but it seems to be pronounced in Arabs.

* A bunch of young Arabs are unable to find work in their homeland so they move away from their homes and families to seek gainful employment. France's lax immigration policy makes it seem like a good choice. They go there highly motivated and run into wall after wall after wall. Their inability to find work is not only discouraging, it is a direct hit on their personal sense of honor.

* They can't return home as failures but they can't get ahead where they are. They don't have money to move elsewhere. A bunch of them in one place is an explosion waiting to happen.

* It happened.

I don't see it as being funny. I did read about the woman on crutches being doused in gasoline and lit. I think the same should happen to the asshole(s) who did it.

Yes, it is nice to see anything related to the Middle East blow up in the French government's face, but I don't see anything good coming out of this.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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By the way, did anyone read about how Muslim teens doused a crippled 60 yr old woman in a propellant (while she was in her wheelchair, obviously) and set her ablaze? Wait, Islam is peaceful! Peaceful I say!

Pathetically weak argument. Same could be said about Christians with regard to racial lynchings, hate crimes against gays, etc., and it would hold about as much water (read: none).

It's almost painful to agree with you, but in this case I do. I think culture plays a huge role in what's going on but their religious affiliations seem incidental.

Walt

[Gravitymaster 0]

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So are you are saying only Christians perpetrate racial lynchings and hate crimes against gays or are you saying the violence in France is being caused by those other than Muslims?

The first half of your comparison is broad, whereas the second half is specific to a particular incident. Try again, perhaps?

Please cite recent "Christian" hate crimes against gays. Consider that Muslim attacks against other races and hate crimes against gays are much more common than Christian attacks in recent history.

[SudsyFist 0]

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Please cite recent "Christian" hate crimes against gays.

Matthew Shepard comes to mind as one example, but I think a quick Googling can turn up more.

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Consider that Muslim attacks against other races and hate crimes against gays are much more common than Christian attacks in recent history.

Where'd you get those stats? I'd be more than a little interested in such a report.

"Recent," is a really subjective and ambiguous term, btw.

[ViperPilot 0]

Well, how many chrstians have committed acts of terrorism since, lets say, 2000? Yeah, I'm sure there are those idiots who have killed gays, committed racial lynchings, etc. But what are the numbers of those compared to the number of attacks/murders propogated muslim extremists?

[ViperPilot 0]

I think your point is very valid. And I didn't say anything good would come of this, I just think it's amsuing to see something like this blow up in France's face.

[waltappel 1]

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I think your point is very valid. And I didn't say anything good would come of this, I just think it's amsuing to see something like this blow up in France's face.

I have to admit that I had exactly the same gut-level reaction too when I first saw the news.

I hope at some point the media will attempt to find and report the countries of origin of the rioters. Not that I am wanting negative attention for those countries but to get a more clear understanding of the cultural issues involved. I would also like to know educational backgrounds.

I think the news is really showing some bias by reporting the rioting is being done my "Muslim youths". Maybe they (the media) are doing it intentionally to create sensationalism. I don't know.

Walt

[Gawain 0]

Wait, are you of the opinion that liberal social policies may have contributed to this pressure cooker?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[SudsyFist 0]

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Well, how many chrstians have committed acts of terrorism since, lets say, 2000? Yeah, I'm sure there are those idiots who have killed gays, committed racial lynchings, etc. But what are the numbers of those compared to the number of attacks/murders propogated muslim extremists?

You seem to be taking my contention against a blanket statement based on a single event in France and running with it to a much bigger, much more complicated arena. If you want to continue on that thought, it'd be better to take it to another thread.

[rickjump1 0]

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Well, how many chrstians have committed acts of terrorism since, lets say, 2000? Yeah, I'm sure there are those idiots who have killed gays, committed racial lynchings, etc. But what are the numbers of those compared to the number of attacks/murders propogated muslim extremists?

You seem to be taking my contention against a blanket statement based on a single event in France and running with it to a much bigger, much more complicated arena. If you want to continue on that thought, it'd be better to take it to another thread.

How many nights must this go on before it is considered more than a single event?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[ReBirth 0]

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Well, how many chrstians have committed acts of terrorism since, lets say, 2000?

A couple thousand in the US alone. 16 bombing or arsons or attempts at them. Plus over a thousand incidents of Invasion, Assault & Battery, Vandalism, Trespassing, Death Threats, Burglary, Stalking...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Please cite recent "Christian" hate crimes against gays.

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Matthew Shepard comes to mind as one example, but I think a quick Googling can turn up more.

Hardly a Christian hate crime agaist a homosexual. More like a couple of drunk redneck assholes.

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Consider that Muslim attacks against other races and hate crimes against gays are much more common than Christian attacks in recent history.

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Where'd you get those stats? I'd be more than a little interested in such a report.

Would the fact that homosexuality is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and Yemen be an acceptable answer?

How about a few quotes from the Quaran?

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The Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an states, in Al-A'raf:

"We also sent Lut: He said to his people: Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"" (Qur'an 7:80-82)
Ash-Shu'ara (starting at 165):

"Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)! They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings:" "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 26:165-175)
An-Naml (starting at 55):

"Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant! But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, "Drive out the followers of Lut from your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife; her We destined to be of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)!" (Qur'an 27:55-58)
Al-Ankabut (starting at 28):

"And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do commit lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before you. Do ye indeed approach men, and cut off the highway? - and practise wickedness (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but this: they said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth." (Qur'an 29:28-29)
An-Nisa, starting at 15-15:

"If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful." (Qur'an 4:15-16)

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"Recent," is a really subjective and ambiguous term, btw.

I didn't want you to come up with some shit from the Crusades.

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[BillyVance 35]

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* Arabs tend to be very hot-headed and volatile, especially young men. Yes, I know that this describes young men of all ethnicities in general, but it seems to be pronounced in Arabs.

* A bunch of young Arabs are unable to find work in their homeland so they move away from their homes and families to seek gainful employment. France's lax immigration policy makes it seem like a good choice. They go there highly motivated and run into wall after wall after wall. Their inability to find work is not only discouraging, it is a direct hit on their personal sense of honor.

* They can't return home as failures but they can't get ahead where they are. They don't have money to move elsewhere. A bunch of them in one place is an explosion waiting to happen.

you can blame that on all the goddamn Muslim militants and terrorists that have perpetuated thousands of terrorist attacks around the world since 1979...

They need to clean their own damn house first before they can make a successful life for themselves.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[ReBirth 0]

Actually, the blame for that comes mostly from oppressive monarchies that are supported by the west. That's why they hate us. Forget all this shit about them being jealous of us. They are oppressed in their homelands by regimes that we (the west in general) are in bed with.

I don't understand why it's necessary for us to spread freedom and democracy by invading, killing and occupying while Musharraf is our biest buddy in the M.E. How fucking hypocritical.

[SudsyFist 0]

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Please cite recent "Christian" hate crimes against gays.

Matthew Shepard comes to mind as one example, but I think a quick Googling can turn up more.

Hardly a Christian hate crime agaist a homosexual. More like a couple of drunk redneck assholes.

I had read somewhere that these were two fine Christian boys (with police records, of course). Lemme do some research, and I'll get back with you. If it turns out that they were Buddhists, though, I'll be nibbling on my own foot.

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Consider that Muslim attacks against other races and hate crimes against gays are much more common than Christian attacks in recent history.

Where'd you get those stats? I'd be more than a little interested in such a report.

Would the fact that homosexuality is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and Yemen be an acceptable answer?

No. Sodomy is outlawed in many states in the U.S., as well as in the UCMJ, with obviously less severe punishments, however. "...much more common..." were the words you used. I was just hoping to see where you got this from, if it was fact.

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How about a few quotes from the Quaran?

Islam is not alone in having such language in its texts; I'd rather avoid getting into a quote-flinging sparring match to prove exactly that. And it still won't tell us whether Muslim hate crimes are much more common than Christian hate crimes, as you indicated.

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"Recent," is a really subjective and ambiguous term, btw.

I didn't want you to come up with some shit from the Crusades.

[billvon 3,120]

>but I'd love to hear Bush tell them to fuck off.

That would really show the world what we're made of. After 9/11, they offer us assistance, and claim 'we are all americans today.' When we need it, we tell them to fuck off. Perhaps we could kneecap some of their children while we're at it, to show we don't put up with whiny French kids.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>but I'd love to hear Bush tell them to fuck off.

That would really show the world what we're made of. After 9/11, they offer us assistance, and claim 'we are all americans today.' When we need it, we tell them to fuck off. Perhaps we could kneecap some of their children while we're at it, to show we don't put up with whiny French kids.

It may not be your idea of Political Correctness, but sometimes you just gotta say, FUCK YOU!!

[billvon 3,120]

>It may not be your idea of Political Correctness . . .

It's not political correctness, it's compassion - an emotion sadly lacking on all sides nowadays. We have replaced compassion with rage. It's a lot more fun, and a lot easier to manipulate people with, but it makes the world a poorer place.