If you had to choose either Clinton or Bush to be next president?

[SpeedRacer 1]

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He embarrassed the country in the world community by his ineffective "leadership". We are now sweeping up after his legacy.

"Sweeping up?"
We're gonna need a fucking dumptruck to clean up after the current administration.

Speed Racer
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[Johnnyskydive 0]

Yeah, no kidding! I love how the right comes up with ways to blame the current blunders on anything but themselvs and this administration! Its always the damn "liberals" fault....or the damn bleeding liberal media...etc, etc!

Nothing can or is their own fault! And we want to talk about classy. Leaking information about an under cover CIA agent....at least President Clinton didn't endanger anyone with his screw up!

Johnny Skydive!

[SudsyFist 0]

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at least President Clinton didn't endanger anyone with his screw up!

Screw up? Perjury's a screw up?

Euphemizing, not to mention downplaying, one politician's transgressions just because you consider yourself on their team is a quick way to lose credibility in the discussion, even if you have valid points to make: it reeks of fanboy-ism.

You can represent your objectivity better by scrutinizing both the politicians whom you support as as well as those you don't. Just sounds like a smarter way to go, too.

[happythoughts 0]

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President Clinton didn't endanger anyone with his screw up!

Perhaps we are talking about different things. I'm not talking about his marital indiscretions, I'm talking about foreign policy.

When OBL sent fighters to Somalia, he was expecting a Russian-type protracted battle over years. Failure 1 - Clinton failed to commit the necessary resources to support the ground troops. 2- After the Rangers suffered casualties, he pulled out quickly.

Result? In the OBL interview that was taped by western journalists, OBL stated that he felt he could act with impunity because Americans had no resolve and were "paper tigers". Result? Continuous attacks abroad and in the US. That is fallout.

He is a Jimmy Carter-style figurehead politician, not a leader.

[DaVinci 0]

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And I really don't give a damn whether or not he got a blowjob or screwed her right on top the damn resolutte desk!! That didn't effect his job performance at all!

Really?

It made a good portion of the world wonder why we had a guy that was so willing to lie about something so small in the Whitehouse and do nothing about it.

Fro Bin Ladens "Letter to America" that he wrote to explain the 9/11 attacks:

" You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither your sense of honour nor your laws object. Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment"

Gee you are right, Clinton did no harm at all.

[ReBirth 0]

You use Bin Laden as evidence of what a "good portion of the world" thought?

I seem to recall the world news during the scandal was more wondering WHY anything was being done about such a minor matter.

Are you actually trying to justify OBL's actions because Clinton lied about a blowjob?

[Erroll 80]

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....willing to lie about something so small ...

I'm guessing you were never in boarding school.

[skytripper 0]

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Fro Bin Ladens "Letter to America" that he wrote to explain the 9/11 attacks:...Gee you are right, Clinton did no harm at all.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

Ok, if you are trying to use Bin Laden's Letter to America as a Clinton Blow Job Attack Point then look at this section of the letter:

"You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and*industries. "

Which President (Bush or Clinton) refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol?

This debate is so stale. Clinton got a BJ and Bush started an unethical war that is killing and maiming thousands of men, women, and children (Iraqi, American, Allies) with no justification nor end in sight. Moreover, we now have more enemies in the world and have destroyed any sort of credibility that the US once held in the international community.

Bravo! Eight more years of BUSH! Come on! It's time for someone new - none of the old players that have destroyed credibility and divided our nation. Enough of the bullshit.

Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving! ~ Patrick Dennis' Auntie Mame

[Johnnyskydive 0]

Come on give me a break! Now we are taking advice from OBL? ......

Johnny Skydive!

[DaVinci 0]

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You use Bin Laden as evidence of what a "good portion of the world" thought?

No but nice try. I said:

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Really?

It made a good portion of the world wonder why we had a guy that was so willing to lie about something so small in the Whitehouse and do nothing about it.

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I seem to recall the world news during the scandal was more wondering WHY anything was being done about such a minor matter.

Which is what I said.

Then I added OBL in since he mentioned the act itself, and Clinton by name in his letter. And some here said the whole BJ and scandle was nothing and did no harm. It in fact just added fuel to the fire to the extremists about how morally corrupt the US was.

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Are you actually trying to justify OBL's actions because Clinton lied about a blowjob?

Get real. I didn't try to justify anything. All I did was show how OBL used it as a reason to prove to some that while they say the whole BJ and him lying thing was nothing, it was infact used as a reason.

[Johnnyskydive 0]

He also goes on to say in that same letter that the only way to prevent further attacks is for the U.S. to adopt Islam and live by its pillars!

So I guess we all are giving OBL good reason to attack us. I guess we are all adding "fuel" to the fire!?

Johnny Skydive!

[ReBirth 0]

Nice back pedal.

[happythoughts 0]

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Perhaps we are talking about different things. I'm not talking about his marital indiscretions, I'm talking about foreign policy.

Interesting. I say that Clinton was a poor leader and can give a variety of reasons. People who defend him would rather discuss how a bj is not a bad thing and that we should quit discussing it.

Instead of discussing who sucked Clinton, I like to discuss the reasons why he sucked.

[Johnnyskydive 0]

Okay, here is why I didn't want to have this discussion. Cause it will go on and on and on....but here it goes.

Maybe President Clinton was a little "soft" on sending troops into harms way. I wouldn't chalk up this as being bad foreign policy. We did have much better relations with our allies during his Presidency, as well as with most of the world.

His being "soft" shows me that he has a conscience. President Bush on the other hand sent troops into harms way (in Iraq) without seemingly giving it a second thought. Some can argue that this is a good trait. I say that it seems he couldn't care less about American soldiers lives.

If after every attempt to prevent sending in troops fail, then fine he did what had to be done. At least then he tried, at all resonable costs, to avoid losing American soldiers.

This wasn't the case with Pres. Bush. He rushed into a conflict that he seems, in hindsight, to have had no idea why he was sending people in. Without any clue on how to win the "peace".

So besides Pres. Clinton being more hesitant to send troops to their deaths....what part of his foreign "sucked"?

Johnny Skydive!

[DaVinci 0]

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Nice back pedal.

Not a back pedal. It is not my fault you can not understand the written word.

But I do find it says something of you, that you attack first without provication.

[DaVinci 0]

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He also goes on to say in that same letter that the only way to prevent further attacks is for the U.S. to adopt Islam and live by its pillars!

So I guess we all are giving OBL good reason to attack us. I guess we are all adding "fuel" to the fire!?

In his eyes we in fact are.

I may not agree, but when people like you claim we are stupid that we do not listen to people outside the US, it seems strange to me that you are so quick to at least not understand the reasons our enemy's attack us.

Me saying that while some saw Clintons BJ problem as nothing, some saw it as a very good reason to hate us is not supporting the second choice. It is simply showing that the first observation is incorrect.

[happythoughts 0]

Btw, you are aware that Clinton did launch cruise missiles into Iraq at one point, right ?

What sucked about his presidency was two constant undertones, committment and imaging. (Even the cruise missile launch was a one-time "message".) Everything seems to be a momentary media event without substance. A half-effort.

Not putting armor in Somalia was a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes. Pulling out was a huge mistake.

In 1993, he was President when the WTC was car bombed the first time. What did he do ? People died then too.

The 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia ? More killed US military personnel ?

The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia ?
More wounded U.S. military personnel.

The 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa ?

The 2000 bombing of the USS Cole. US sailors killed and injured.

If he had stepped up in 1993 and said, "Let's go find these guys..." But he didn't. Why?

Result ? They kept coming back. Obvious to anyone, doing nothing is not a solution. Eventually, someone has to.

People don't talk about his real "legacy" and what he really did to the US. They avoid the real issues by talking about his sex life. If he had stood by the US and did what made sense, I would have bought him a hooker myself.

[SpeedRacer 1]

gotta call bullshit on this one.

I don't care ow much you hate Clinton. People do NOT launch suicide attacks on an enemy leader because he got a blowjob & then Lied about it.

bin Laden's main gripe was the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia, the country of Mecca and Medina. get real.

Speed Racer
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[DaVinci 0]

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gotta call bullshit on this one.

I don't care ow much you hate Clinton. People do NOT launch suicide attacks on an enemy leader because he got a blowjob & then Lied about it.

bin Laden's main gripe was the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia, the country of Mecca and Medina. get real.

You may call bullshit all you like.

It does not change anything.

Never did I say it was the only reason. But it was a listed reason from OBL himself and I find it amazing that you will not listen to an enemy's reasons prefering to think you know better than the enemy himself.

Hate is usually not from a single source. The origin of the hate took many roads.

The US being the biggest supporter of Israel is at the top of that list. Followed by US being in the middle east.

The fact that OBL is religious means that the fact he sees the US as corrupt is a reason as well.

Please don't claim that religous people will not kill for a cause. Ever heard of the crusaides? The killing of abortion Dr's?

Please, you get real.

[ReBirth 0]

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I find it amazing that you will not listen to an enemy's reasons

I'm sure he's a very honest and upfront person who would never try to hide his true motives.

[DaVinci 0]

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I'm sure he's a very honest and upfront person who would never try to hide his true motives.

There you go again.

Did you even read OBL's letter to America?

Read it some time. He lists ALL the reasons they are fighting us.

You just refuse to listen to the other side in anything. That is foolish.

Do I think they have a right to do what they are doing? Nope. But at least I understand their reasons. And that is important if you are going to deal with them.

You just keep thinking OBL is just a "bad" man if you like. Its quite short sighted of you, but it is also your right. I instead choose to know the enemy and his reasons.

[ReBirth 0]

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But at least I understand their reasons.

No, you don't. You've proven that with your posts.

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I instead choose to know the enemy and his reasons.

Then you might want to read some of what the non-enemy experts on the subject have to say about it. I've read your references (OBL's letter), but I don't give it as much credit as say...US anti-terrorism Czars.

The main reason for their motivation is Western influence in the middle east. You can choose to believe that it is about Clinton getting a blow job if you want. Just be aware that you're wrong.

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Its quite short sighted of you

Wahhh...you attacked me...whaahhhh..

[DaVinci 0]

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No, you don't. You've proven that with your posts.

Its clear you have no clue. Keep your head in the sand if you wish.

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I've read your references (OBL's letter), but I don't give it as much credit as say...US anti-terrorism Czars.

Ah so you don't trust the guy at the head of the organization who is attacking us, but you trust some US govt agency?

Thats rich. Esp since your beloved agency got its ideas from OBL's letter.

I doubt you read OBL's letter since it lists several reasons including the one your Czars listed.

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The main reason for their motivation is Western influence in the middle east. You can choose to believe that it is about Clinton getting a blow job if you want. Just be aware that you're wrong.

I listed several reasons, one of them was how a religous group thinks the US is morally corrupt. You choose to only listen to one of the reasons.

So, we have OBL saying why he did something, and you saying he did it for something else.

So you know more about OBL than OBL himself?

Thats rich.

Its clear you only attack people who disagree with you. I do not see the need to continue with someone who acts in that way.

[ReBirth 0]

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Ah so you don't trust the guy at the head of the organization who is attacking us, but you trust some US govt agency?

ummm...yeah...I do trust the US gov't more than I trust Osama Bin Laden. You got me there...guess I should feel burned.

You so crazy.

[DaVinci 0]

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ummm...yeah...I do trust the US gov't more than I trust Osama Bin Laden. You got me there...guess I should feel burned.

Gees ince you agency got their info in part from his letter...You would think you would use the source.

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You so crazy

Again with the childish attacks.