Man Sentenced for Slandering Spanish King

[Botellines 0]

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Was it illegal to slander the
Head of State under Franco?

I very much doubt there was a written law to make slandering the head of state illegal. It was a sure way to get you in trouble, written or not.
I still don´t see how that law in the constitution voted in a referendum by the people is a hang over from a dictatorship.

[rickjump1 0]

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Was it illegal to slander the
Head of State under Franco?

I very much doubt there was a written law to make slandering the head of state illegal. It was a sure way to get you in trouble, written or not.
I still don´t see how that law in the constitution voted in a referendum by the people is a hang over from a dictatorship.

After living under Franco all those years without any freedom of expression, it would be an unnatural thing for scared, oppressed people (recently set free), to ever dream of slandering those in charge. It probably took awhile for people to realize they were really free. My opinion.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Botellines 0]

The thing is that he was a dictator for how he reached power. However he was not a dictator in the sense that he and very few had the power opressing the rest. Roughly half of the spaniard population was with him in the nationalistic front. The other half was the republican front and was against him. That lead to spaniard civil war.

The funny thing is that it was the republicans who kicked the monarchy out, and it was Franco and the nationals who were suppose to give back the power to the monarchy, although Franco decided to keep power for him, the military, and the nationals.

So in other words, Franco and the nationals were not fond of monarchy, and the republicans really hated the monarchy, so i don´t see how that law could have been a hang over from previous times.

The reason why we have a monarchy now, is because Franco decided when he was close to die, to delegate his position on the actual king of Spain (skipping his father in the process who was supposed to be the king had not the republicans kicked him out). He did this to avoid a vacuum of power that could lead spain again into another civil war.

[Wopelao 0]

Really? So he was democratic? Or you are a little confused in regards to what a dictatorship means.?

You don't see it, but enforcing laws that won't allow you to speak publicly, and indiscriminately against any public official is not exactly democracy and more in tune with what a dictator would do.

Would you be ok if you come to the US and get arrested for insulting Bush?

[christelsabine 1]

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Really? So he was democratic? Or you are a little confused in regards to what a dictatorship means.?

You don't see it, but enforcing laws that won't allow you to speak publicly, and indiscriminately against any public official is not exactly democracy and more in tune with what a dictator would do.

Would you be ok if you come to the US and get arrested for insulting Bush?

As far as I know, Spain has no such thing like Guantámo, so the arrested go to jail officially. In other countries, members of terroristic groups just disappear.

When were you in Spain, lately?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Wopelao 0]

Let me understand you, (as your post is really confusing),are you saying that if you insult the US president you end up in Guantanamo?.

Better read the US press, and see the cartoons published, you are pretty free to divulge to ANYONE your disent with government. Maybe this is new for you, but if you actually seen any of M. Moron movies, you will find it that pretty much you can say anything you want against the US pres, as long as is not a physical threat off course, but I would assume that would escape your comprehension capabilities.



Any one there goes to jain officially, and in "reality" as well.

What does this have to do me being in Spain or not? I was there for about a month, about 3 months ago. In Rota.

Still it is a disgrace that someone will get sent to jail for INSULTING a public official, and to make matters worse, is a figure with almost no or very little power.

[Botellines 0]

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Really? So he was democratic? Or you are a little confused in regards to what a dictatorship means.?

If you don´t know much about history it helps if at least you read the whole post.
A dictator that has the support of close to half the country can easily become president in any democracy. Now that i mention it, sounds familair, doesn´t it?

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You don't see it, but enforcing laws that won't allow you to speak publicly, and indiscriminately against any public official is not exactly democracy and more in tune with what a dictator would do.

yeah, like showing a titi on TV, right?

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Would you be ok if you come to the US and get arrested for insulting Bush?

Considering i can get arrested in the U.S for much less than that, i can only say it is fair enough.
Do you know what patriot act is?

[Botellines 0]

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Better read the US press, and see the cartoons published, you are pretty free to divulge to ANYONE your disent with government. Maybe this is new for you, but if you actually seen any of M. Moron movies, you will find it that pretty much you can say anything you want against the US pres, as long as is not a physical threat off course, but I would assume that would escape your comprehension capabilities.

It certainly scapes yours. We are talking here about slandering, and no, you can not slander Bush, and get away with it. If you say something bad about Bush, it better be true because if it is not you will end up in big shit, and if it is, it is not slandering. If M. Moore is not in jail it is because he doesn´t lie in his movies, he may spin the truth, but doesn´t outright lie.
Same thing with the Spanish king. Mr Otegui accused the king of being responsible of torturing people. If he can prove it, he will not get in trouble.

[rickjump1 0]

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The thing is that he was a dictator for how he reached power. However he was not a dictator in the sense that he and very few had the power opressing the rest. Roughly half of the spaniard population was with him in the nationalistic front. The other half was the republican front and was against him. That lead to spaniard civil war.

The funny thing is that it was the republicans who kicked the monarchy out, and it was Franco and the nationals who were suppose to give back the power to the monarchy, although Franco decided to keep power for him, the military, and the nationals.

So in other words, Franco and the nationals were not fond of monarchy, and the republicans really hated the monarchy, so i don´t see how that law could have been a hang over from previous times.

The reason why we have a monarchy now, is because Franco decided when he was close to die, to delegate his position on the actual king of Spain (skipping his father in the process who was supposed to be the king had not the republicans kicked him out). He did this to avoid a vacuum of power that could lead spain again into another civil war.

Didn't Franco refuse to concede defeat in a fair election? Unless you happened to be on his side, I can't believe things were that rosy; especially after all those nazis and fascists showed up.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 2,150]

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Let me understand you, (as your post is really confusing),are you saying that if you insult the US president you end up in Guantanamo?.


....

Still it is a disgrace that someone will get sent to jail for INSULTING a public official, and to make matters worse, is a figure with almost no or very little power.

Apparently you can do nothing illegal whatsoever and end up in Guantanamo. THAT is disgrace.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Didn't Franco refuse to concede defeat in a fair election? Unless you happened to be on his side, I can't believe things were that rosy; especially after all those nazis and fascists showed up.

I don't think he meant things were rosy under Franco. He only stated that Franco had the support of the majority of Spaniards, at least for a while. Being a dictator does not mean you do not have the support of the people. Also, let's not get confused between dictatorship/democracy/freedom. All forms of government are dictatorial in one way or the other. Democracy is only the dictatorship of the majority, which we tend to accept more readily than other forms of dictatorships.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Botellines 0]

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Didn't Franco refuse to concede defeat in a fair election?

Actually not, there never was a fair election. That is why he was a dictator because he reached power by using the military. He was then an army coronel.

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Unless you happened to be on his side, I can't believe things were that rosy; especially after all those nazis and fascists showed up.

Things were not that rosy, and certainly i am not on his side, quite the opposite actually.
However, he was a guy that really cared for spain. He did many things for spain and did not try to become rich by stealing money from the rest of the people. He wanted the best for Spain, or at least what he thought was the best (which often enough was not). It still does not justify how much people he killed and how he provoked a civil war.

[Botellines 0]

Totally agree.

[Wopelao 0]

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It certainly scapes yours. We are talking here about slandering, and no, you can not slander Bush, and get away with it. If you say something bad about Bush, it better be true because if it is not you will end up in big shit, and if it is, it is not slandering. If M. Moore is not in jail it is because he doesn´t lie in his movies, he may spin the truth, but doesn´t outright lie.
Same thing with the Spanish king. Mr Otegui accused the king of being responsible of torturing people. If he can prove it, he will not get in trouble.

It seems that your comments are really based in fiction, too much absinthe, or who knows where on earth is your rosy point of view.

Apparently you are not aware that many people have said really stupid factless statements about Bush, and yet, we have to see one to be sent to jail or sued. Take for example Dan Rather and CBS news reports about the fake GWB military Chief letters.

Of course, you may agree to disagree, but apparently history avoids your negligent account, and trying to imply that GWB elections are equal to Franco's (no so bad according to you) dictatorship obtained by a brutal and represive civil war/coup-de-tat is simply ridiculous and looming in the area of lack of comprehension, which can definitely be explained by your hatred to anything US.

In here, you can say anything you want about GWB, even go to his Ranch in TX and protest against him and call him whatever name you would like, you may want to ask Bill Maher, Alec Baldwin, Whoopi Goldberg if you can get away with it.

Your very simplistic history of events about how Franco gets into power, leaves off so many things not mentioned, but not surprised you have not read about the "generalisimo" yourself.

Here are a few pearls about his time in power:

1) Slashed the "Segunda Republica" to a complete stop, voiding the constitution, elections, and basically anything he, and mostly he, deemed necessary to mantain power.

2) His buddies Hitler, & Benito, helped him materially(legion Condor & Corpo Truppe Volontarie), financially to achieve his goals.

3) He supressed violently (Yes, with the use of violence) freedom of expresion, just like they have in Cuba. That meant anything said true or not was heavily sanctioned.



Go ahead, whatever you say about him being the same than an elected president in the US. We understand that hate definitely blinds perception.

[rickjump1 0]

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Didn't Franco refuse to concede defeat in a fair election?

Actually not, there never was a fair election. That is why he was a dictator because he reached power by using the military. He was then an army coronel.

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Unless you happened to be on his side, I can't believe things were that rosy; especially after all those nazis and fascists showed up.

Things were not that rosy, and certainly i am not on his side, quite the opposite actually.
However, he was a guy that really cared for spain. He did many things for spain and did not try to become rich by stealing money from the rest of the people. He wanted the best for Spain, or at least what he thought was the best (which often enough was not). It still does not justify how much people he killed and how he provoked a civil war.

Hilter cared for Germany and wanted what he thought was best. To the best of my knowledge, all those Americans that fought in the Spanish Civil War, fought with the republicans; not the nationalists. Ever hear of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade? The FBI was hounding those poor people in the 50's and many lost jobs because they supported the rebublican side way back in '36. I'll bet you still have to swear you never belonged to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade before you can be sworn into the US military today (trust me, I was born too late to be a member). If you are afraid to slander your king or president, you still have a hangover (compared to the US democracy anyway).

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[rickjump1 0]

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Apparently you are not aware that many people have said really stupid factless statements about Bush, and yet, we have to see one to be sent to jail or sued. Take for example Dan Rather and CBS news reports about the fake GWB military Chief letters.

I think most Americans take our freedom of speech/expression for granted. I drank beer one night with one American and several Brits. Behind the bar were two pictures: one of the Sheik and one of the Queen. After listening to the Brits and their royalty jokes, my friend and I came down pretty hard on Ford or Carter (can't remember which), when a little guy with a middle eastern accent approached us from behind and told us to quit talking about the President of the United States that way. We shut up beause we liked our jobs.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.