Man Sentenced for Slandering Spanish King

[rickjump1 0]

I found this almost unbelivable. Nov 4, 8:54 AM (ET)

By CIARAN GILES

MADRID, Spain (AP) - Spain's Supreme Court sentenced radical pro-Basque independence leader Arnaldo Otegi to a year in prison Friday for slandering King Juan Carlos by saying he was in charge of torturers.

Otegi made the remark during a news conference coinciding with a visit by the monarch to the Basque region on Feb. 26, 2003. He described the king as "maximum chief of the Spanish army, in other words, the person responsible for the torturers."

Otegi was tried on the charges by the Basque region's Superior Tribunal in March, but was absolved on the basis that the right to freedom of expression entitled him to make the remarks. The prosecution appealed the verdict to the Supreme Court.

Otegi's remarks "express a blatant contempt for his majesty the king and the institution he represents, affecting the very core of his dignity by attributing to him one of the gravest crimes in a state of law," the Supreme Court said in its ruling.





Otegi, 47, announced Friday he would appeal the sentence to the Constitutional Court.

In any case, the Basque leader will not have to go to jail for the moment as sentences of under two years are suspended in Spain.

However, the Supreme Court is to consider an appeal of a sentence of 15 months handed down to Otegi in May 2004 by the Basque court, which convicted him of defending terrorism by praising dead members of the armed pro-independence group ETA and their cause during a funeral ceremony.

A former Basque parliament deputy, Otegi is leader of the political party Batasuna, which was outlawed in 2003 on the basis that it formed part of ETA, an organization that has killed more than 800 people since 1968 in a campaign for Basque independence.

Otegi served three years of a six-year sentence handed down in 1989 for his role in an ETA kidnapping.

He was also indicted earlier this year on charges of being a top member of ETA and is out on bail awaiting trial. No trial date has been set.



It's OK to slander poor old President Bush, just don't dare slander your own.[url]Nov 4, 8:54 AM (ET)

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[ReBirth 0]

Wow...not only is jail for slander pretty messed up, but I still don't understand how some of the "free nations" of the world can allow the state to appeal a not guilty verdict (or the equivalent).

[rickjump1 0]

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Wow...not only is jail for slander pretty messed up, but I still don't understand how some of the "free nations" of the world can allow the state to appeal a not guilty verdict (or the equivalent).

I think its been done in this country when, for instance, a policeman was found not guilty in a murder trial only to have the feds step in and try him for violating the civil rights of the person murdered. Something like that in a burgundy state of mind.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[ReBirth 0]

good point. I'm not a big fan of federal courts in general, federal sentencing guidelines in particular.

[Botellines 0]

Have you read the whole article instead of just the headlines. I will highlite some parts for you.

the Basque leader will not have to go to jail for the moment as sentences of under two years are suspended in Spain.
Not totally true but close.

However, the Supreme Court is to consider an appeal of a sentence of 15 months handed down to Otegi in May 2004 by the Basque court, which convicted him of defending terrorism by praising dead members of the armed pro-independence group ETA and their cause during a funeral ceremony.
If it is not your first sentences the sentences under two years may not be suspended. Seems like we have a really nice guy.

A former Basque parliament deputy, Otegi is leader of the political party Batasuna, which was outlawed in 2003 on the basis that it formed part of ETA, an organization that has killed more than 800 people since 1968 in a campaign for Basque independence.
Oh, Batasuna.... Such a nice people. They are the ones that when ETA put a car bomb and all spain went marching honoring the fallen, the were marching in opposite direction honoring the ETA terrorists in Prison. This Otegui has a funny way to make friends.


Otegi served three years of a six-year sentence handed down in 1989 for his role in an ETA kidnapping.
Kidnapping is a no-no in any democracy.

He was also indicted earlier this year on charges of being a top member of ETA and is out on bail awaiting trial. No trial date has been set.
Being a top member of a terrorist organization is not nice and can get you in trouble.

Now seriously, there is many people that want to see him in jail, the thing is that in Basque country he is quite popular and have bought a great deal of judges so it is not easy to put him in jail. That is what this charade is for. No one in Spain gets in trouble for slendering our Monarchy, but you would have to be very stupid to do it on TV.
If you want to bash Spain, go for it, I will lend you a hand, it is better to bash us for not being hard enough with people like Otegui, that for not respecting freedom of speech.

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It's OK to slander poor old President Bush, just don't dare slander your own.Tongue

I am actually as big fun of the monarchy as i am of Bush. It is just that our Monarchy doesn´t get anyone killed, and you have to at least give them credit for it.

[rickjump1 0]

OK, this character is pretty rough. It's still a little unique that you can be charged for slandering the King. Yes, your King doesn't get anyone killed.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Trent 0]

Just replace "Basque Leader" with "al quaida leader/fundraiser/supporter" and maybe you will begin to understand how some Americans feel about our current situation... especially not feeling sympathy for the "innocent" peace-lovers in Guantanamo.

Remember, this Otegi guy hasn't been convicted of being a terrorist leader in Spain yet. So shouldn't you assume he's innocent?

I found this completely ridiculous:

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He was also indicted earlier this year on charges of being a top member of ETA and is out on bail awaiting trial. No trial date has been set.

If everyone is so sure he's a terrorist party leader, why the hell would they let him run free until the trial??

Oh, hello again!

[ReBirth 0]

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I found this completely ridiculous:
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He was also indicted earlier this year on charges of being a top member of ETA and is out on bail awaiting trial. No trial date has been set.
If everyone is so sure he's a terrorist party leader, why the hell would they let him run free until the trial??

Um...you answered that right above.

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Remember, this Otegi guy hasn't been convicted of being a terrorist leader in Spain yet. So shouldn't you assume he's innocent?

You seem to be trying to point out hypocrisy on his part, but you're doing the opposite. You just demonstrated that other countries don't detain suspected terrorists in secret covert prisons indefinitely, without representation.

[Trent 0]

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You seem to be trying to point out hypocrisy on his part, but you're doing the opposite. You just demonstrated that other countries don't detain suspected terrorists in secret covert prisons indefinitely, without representation.

Apparently they don't legally detain them either!

I'm not trying to point out hypocrisy, just trying to illustrate that many people here feel the same about islamic terrorists as he does about the basques. Just a small attempt in hopes that it might provide some insight and similarities since he usually disagrees with what the US does.

And how nice would it be if they DID detain this guy secretly and interrogate him, resulting in a complete picture of the ETA's operations and membership, THEN putting him on trial after everyone else is arrested? He'd still get his day in court AND they'd deal a deadly blow to the ETA.

.... OR they could let him out on bail indefinitely so he can make arrangements to hide evidence and assets so that the authorities would never get to them and maybe even avoid getting himself convicted.

Oh, hello again!

[markd_nscr986 0]

Damn..........

We need more laws like that here

Half of "Speakers Corner" would be in jail

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[ReBirth 0]

Or...he could be innocent, but you've decided based on a post on the internet that a human being deserves to be jailed and interrogated indefinitely.

Who's making the decisions about who gets detained and for how long? Oh that's right...we don't know...it's secret.

[Trent 0]

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Or...he could be innocent, but you've decided based on a post on the internet that a human being deserves to be jailed and interrogated indefinitely.

Who's making the decisions about who gets detained and for how long? Oh that's right...we don't know...it's secret.

Don't decide what I think for me, thanks. I've made no decisions in these posts. I've just stated some possibilities that might have been better than just giving the guy walking papers.

It sounds more to me, based on Botellines post, like he and other people in Spain have already decided this guy's guilt so I responded accordingly.

I'll post this part in the other thread too, to make sure you see it:
We will just have to disagree on this one.

Oh, hello again!

[ReBirth 0]

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I'll post this part in the other thread too, to make sure you see it:
We will just have to disagree on this one.

Hmmm....ok.....is there one we CAN agree on?

Boobies.....good or bad?

Debate!

[Trent 0]

After careful conisderation of your proposal for debate RE: Boobies, I have concluded I am FOR them.

Oh, hello again!

[jjiimmyyt 0]

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After careful conisderation of your proposal for debate RE: Boobies, I have concluded I am FOR them.

I am sorry but I have to disagree. Thoose boobies are bad!!! Those boobies like like they wnat to be further away from each other than the Basque areas and Spain. Fake boobs BAD.

"This isn't an iron lung, people. You can actually disconnect and not die." -Dave

[kallend 2,150]

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Wow...not only is jail for slander pretty messed up, but I still don't understand how some of the "free nations" of the world can allow the state to appeal a not guilty verdict (or the equivalent).

In most places slander is a civil, not criminal, offense. The USA is somewhat unusual in making cases of libel and slander against public figures essentially impossible to win.

Spain was a totalitarian state for much of my lifetime, maybe this is a hangover.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ExAFO 0]

Can we send Fred Phelps to Spain, and tell him that there are gay people there, and it's the King's fault? That'd be a nice way to get rid of him.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[rickjump1 0]

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Spain was a totalitarian state for much of my lifetime, maybe this is a hangover.

Must have been one hell of a hangover after Franco finally died. From what I have read, he would only allow the Monarchy to rule after his death which occurred in 1975.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Botellines 0]

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If everyone is so sure he's a terrorist party leader, why the hell would they let him run free until the trial??

I know it is crazy but it is because for some charges he has already been in prison, and for others he is awaiting trial finding everysingle loophole in our constitution to avoid returning there.

I am all for changing the constitution to give longer sentences to those assholes. We already did it 5 years ago, but i think it is necesary to make those sentences harder again. However i am happy that the constitution is there to be aplied to everybody and is not changed on a case by case basis even if idiots like Otegui don´t get what they deserve. That would give our government too much power.

[Botellines 0]

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In most places slander is a civil, not criminal, offense. The USA is somewhat unusual in making cases of libel and slander against public figures essentially impossible to win.

Spain was a totalitarian state for much of my lifetime, maybe this is a hangover.

Actually it is quite the opposite for Franco was not very fond of monarchy. Slander is a civil offence is Spain as well, However there is one article in the constitution that makes slander against the king (and i think royal family as well) a criminal offence, but that was decided after Franco died.

If it was up to me i would erase that article of the constitution, but no one asks me.

[ReBirth 0]

Franco was authoritarian, no? That's pretty close to Totalitarian....clearly not the opposite.

[Botellines 0]

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Franco was authoritarian, no? That's pretty close to Totalitarian....clearly not the opposite.

It has nothing to do with that. I meant that it was quite the opposite from that law being a hang over of Franco´s Dictatorship for Franco was not fond of Monarchy.

Edited to add that the Spanish constitution was voted in referendum on December, 6th, 1978. Franco died on November, 20th 1975, when Monarchy was reinstaurated.

[SudsyFist 0]

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And how nice would it be if they DID detain this guy secretly and interrogate him, resulting in a complete picture of the ETA's operations and membership, THEN putting him on trial after everyone else is arrested? He'd still get his day in court AND they'd deal a deadly blow to the ETA.

Add in judicial oversight, and I agree. If I'm not mistaken, it's a procedure familiar and available to law enforcement in the US.

[rickjump1 0]

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And how nice would it be if they DID detain this guy secretly and interrogate him, resulting in a complete picture of the ETA's operations and membership, THEN putting him on trial after everyone else is arrested? He'd still get his day in court AND they'd deal a deadly blow to the ETA.

Add in judicial oversight, and I agree. If I'm not mistaken, it's a procedure familiar and available to law enforcement in the US.

Damn straight. We are at war.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 2,150]

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Franco was authoritarian, no? That's pretty close to Totalitarian....clearly not the opposite.

It has nothing to do with that. I meant that it was quite the opposite from that law being a hang over of Franco´s Dictatorship for Franco was not fond of Monarchy.

Edited to add that the Spanish constitution was voted in referendum on December, 6th, 1978. Franco died on November, 20th 1975, when Monarchy was reinstaurated.

Was it illegal to slander the
Head of State under Franco?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.