Senate Permits Oil Drilling in Alaska Refuge

[rushmc 23]

About Dam Time!!!!


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174487,00.html

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ReBirth 0]

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Available oil reserves are estimated between 4 billion and 12 billion barrels, a six-month to 20-month supply for the entire United States if it were completely dependent on the reserve.

Yeah...that's worth the destruction of 1.5 million acres.

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"The Department of Energy says that drilling in ANWR will do little in the near term and very little in the long term, reducing gas prices by only one penny," Cantwell said.

Yeah...definitely worth it. Hell...a penny a gallon. That might be $5 a piece over the life of the entire supply!! whooppeee.

[rushmc 23]

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Available oil reserves are estimated between 4 billion and 12 billion barrels, a six-month to 20-month supply for the entire United States if it were completely dependent on the reserve.

Yeah...that's worth the destruction of 1.5 million acres.

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"The Department of Energy says that drilling in ANWR will do little in the near term and very little in the long term, reducing gas prices by only one penny," Cantwell said.

Yeah...definitely worth it. Hell...a penny a gallon. That might be $5 a piece over the life of the entire supply!! whooppeee.

The destruction??? Bbbbwwwwahhhhhhaaaaaaa

The Alaskan pipe line was supposed to destroy the Carabu too?

By the way, there are estimates out there that greatly exceed the estimates above. They really woun't know until they get there.

Next, off the coast of California and Florida!!!! YA!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

I doubt "they" destroy a lot of land in the process, and the Alaskans want this I hear (Alaska has 586,000 sq miles, 1.5M acres is what?, 2500 sq mi? and likely a exageration by people trying to elicit an emotional response? less than 1/2%) . So allowing it at least lets people do what they want with their land. Good for property rights anyway (unless the supreme court wants to pretend they are congress again).

But it's really just a drop in the bucket in terms of oil supply. So not much affect on energy. Impotent on energy benefits.

It's not much of a PR move either as prices seem to be dropping right now, anyway. So weak for votes, the eco-nuts will rage, the rest of us won't much care. Some weirdos will confuse the action with the independent drop in gas prices and act like it's the cause of the drop. But they look for anything anyway.

Another impotent decision by Congress. Next week they'll vote on naming a library after some dead guy. Tax dollars at work.

edit: It's a property rights victory only, they should never have restricted drilling in the first place

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ReBirth 0]

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Drilling would occur on the coastal plane on a 1.5 million acre plot within ANWR's 19.5 million-acre terrain.

Yes....1.5 million acres will no longer be available as a wildlife refuge. The purpose of a wildlife refuge is to shelter wildlife from the infringement of man. Man is now infringing...therefore, 1.5 million acres of wildlife refuge are lost.

Enjoy your penny. Karma's a bitch.

[rehmwa 2]

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Yes....1.5 million acres will no longer be available as a wildlife refuge.

so the wildlife won't be able to co-exist in any way/shape/form? every single square inch of that area will be a concrete parking lot?

Come to Minneapolis, you can live in the middle of town and still have deer in your backyard. And geese, etc.

That argument would be more believable if you took the 1.5M and talked to how much of a proportion of that area is 'really' lost. Also speak to environmental controls established on drilling in the these areas and how that is enacted (good or bad)... etc. Else this is just too undefined and over the top.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

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Drilling would occur on the coastal plane on a 1.5 million acre plot within ANWR's 19.5 million-acre terrain.

Yes....1.5 million acres will no longer be available as a wildlife refuge. The purpose of a wildlife refuge is to shelter wildlife from the infringement of man. Man is now infringing...therefore, 1.5 million acres of wildlife refuge are lost.

Enjoy your penny. Karma's a bitch.

How can you say that? You are saying they will "destroy" 1.5 MILLION Acers???? Where is your proof?

Have you seen the plan as to how this would be done?

I have........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Lindsey 0]

WOO HOOO!!! Now I can justify driving that big ol' pick-up truck I've been wanting to buy

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[ReBirth 0]

You're missing the definition of refuge.

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Come to Minneapolis, you can live in the middle of town and still have deer in your backyard.

And you think that's a good thing? You can see deer around here walking down the street...because their habitat has been DESTROYED.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a whole shit load of both flora and fauna aren't going to be displaced or destroyed for what you said yourself is a pretty pointless reason?

And as far as "them" doing what they want with "their" land. It's all of our land, it's a "federal" refuge. Unforutunately, slightly more than 50% of our reps decided to sell it out, for again, as you say, little benefit.

[rushmc 23]

Aahh, now I get it. They can do with thier land as they want .........................................................

As long as "you " agree with said usage.

Hhmm, there name for that...........hm, I forget

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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And you think that's a good thing? You can see deer around here walking down the street...because their habitat has been DESTROYED.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a whole shit load of both flora and fauna aren't going to be displaced or destroyed for what you said yourself is a pretty pointless reason?

1 - The deer are overpopulated here due to poor policy in allowing harvesting. As far as Alaska, I'd like to hear what Alaskans want over anybody else in the nation that has no clue as to the local environment and need for jobs, etc.

2 - You went from 1.5M acres 'destroyed' to 'a whole shitload of flora and fauna'. How many acres = a 'shitload' again? Again, I have no idea as to how they actually go in and do the drilling and what the estimated impact is, etc. So this is still just knee jerk response.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ReBirth 0]

Eventually, there WILL be a spill. I'm sure they are planning to make the rigs and roads as unobtrusive as possible. But there have been more than 100 oil spills of 100 gallons or more over the past 30 years in alaska Estimation of Oil Spill Risk From Alaska North Slope, Trans-
Alaska Pipeline, and Arctic Canada Oil Spill Data Sets

[rushmc 23]

Gonna be big dam spills to destroy 1.5 millon acers

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ReBirth 0]

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So this is still just knee jerk response.

No...it's the recognition of great risk to the environment for NO GAIN!

Our efforts and money should be directed toward alternate sources that are better economically in the long term and not as destructive to the environment. That's not knee jerk, it's called responsible.

[ReBirth 0]

whatever....rape and pillage the earth for selfish needs. You guys obviously don't give a shit, so I'll just leave you to it. Hopefully your descendents aren't cursing todays short sigtedness because of their suffering.

[ReBirth 0]

One more thing...just in case you could actually open your eyes a little to a different perspective. Although they may limit the actual footprint of the wells, pipes, and roads, the mere presence of humans will damage populations throughout the ENTIRE 1.5 million acres.

There will be airplanes, trucks, etc. moving through the entire area that weren't there before. Polar bears, musk oxen, caribou, grizzly bears, etc. really don't dig humans. Many times they will flee in fear from the sound of airplanes and abandon their cubs.

Maybe my use of the word "destroy" is a little harsh. But there will be a widespread negative impact on the environment. It's not worth it for a penny a gallon for a couple years.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Drilling would occur on the coastal plane on a 1.5 million acre plot within ANWR's 19.5 million-acre terrain.

Yes....1.5 million acres will no longer be available as a wildlife refuge. The purpose of a wildlife refuge is to shelter wildlife from the infringement of man. Man is now infringing...therefore, 1.5 million acres of wildlife refuge are lost.

Enjoy your penny. Karma's a bitch.

How can you say that? You are saying they will "destroy" 1.5 MILLION Acers???? Where is your proof?

Have you seen the plan as to how this would be done?

I have........

I don't think it is going ot "destroy" anything. I just think it is a big fucking waste of time.

You think this is going to allieviate our oil problems? It's not.

We could be focused on, and pouring money into, researching much better solutions. This is, like rehmwa said, an impotent gesture.


Worthless. Totally worthless.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[markd_nscr986 0]

***And you think that's a good thing? You can see deer around here walking down the street...because their habitat has been DESTROYED


No......nice try though...........it's due to OVERPOPULATION.........because of a lack of natural predation...........and an absence of hunting

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Are you seriously trying to tell me that a whole shit load of both flora and fauna aren't going to be displaced or destroyed for what you said yourself is a pretty pointless reason?


Some "fauna" will be displaced and some plant life will be destroyed......but after the wells are drilled.they have to remediate the site.....and they usually do a good job of it...........

And to *ALL* people whining about this and still driving cars and jumping out of airplanes and using plastic products............put your money where your mouth is.......otherwise some of us might think you're hypocrites

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

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[rushmc 23]

Why is it that those with from your perspective think anyone with a differing opion (and I don't agree with any of your above posts) are either stupid, greedy blind or evil? Are those with you points of view the only educated informed people that walk the face of the earth?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[TheAnvil 0]

I think you missed some key words there - 'estimates' and 'completely dependent'.

The exploration will cost oil companies millions. They are not likely to invest in something that would not yield a lot of profit. Poor business practice to do otherwise, and they have been doing business extremely intelligently as of late.

I think the future of US fuel lies elsewhere - methanol, ethanol, or most likely biodiesel. This drilling is a very good thing, however.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[ReBirth 0]

What other motivation would you have to dig oil wells in a wildlife refuge other than monetary? Please, tell me you greed is not the issue?

[rehmwa 2]

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A National wildlife refuge is just that. And made that way for a reason.

I like to think of them as "food" preserves. (insert appropriate emoticon here - preferably a big steak eating guy)

rebirth - I'll rephrase the term "knee jerk response" to "knee jerk argument". I see you mitigating your reponses in that area and now approaching better discussions to your viewpoint than just the 'sky is falling' first response stuff. That's more interesting.

Frankly, I think the "we aren't going to get much back from this in terms of real energy support" is better - it's a trade off discussion then. I've never been a fan of the "all or nothing types" which you get from the more rabid of the enviro-types. But once you derail these guys from their initial knee jerk reaction, you can find good discussions underneath from a few of them. The rest aren't really enviromentalists, just excitable people.

I'd still say the most sincere 'environmentalists' are hunters/outdoorsmen/etc rather than city bound activists. You have to understand nature to really know what's right. Caring about something without understanding usually means well intentioned but completing backwards actions.

So anyway, What do the Alaskans want?

anyone know?

Frankly, I wouldn't want anyone in DC or New York or California or Texas trying to tell me what to do with the midwest.....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ReBirth 0]

I agree with you. I'm not a greenpeace or peta supporter...I think they're both nuts and radicals. I also understand the need for compromise. I just don't think on this issue it's a fair compromise. It's not worth it. I also agree about the hunters/outdoorsmen. It is much more noble and responsible to eat your own kill than to buy it in the supermarket. I may be a city dweller but I still like to kick it in the forrest on the weekends. The point is, I'd like to continue to be able to do that.

[rehmwa 2]

1 - not a good tradeoff if we are looking for more oil - not enough to make it worth it

2 - By outdoorsmen being real enviromentalists, I just mean they experience the outdoors and understand the ecology better - thus what REALLY matters vs just some dopey city dweller letting his 'feelings' drive his politics rather than experience or science. Nothing to do with 'nobility' of eating the kill or anything dorky like that.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[ReBirth 0]

Agree with both of these as well. You better stop it...you're not pissing me off. Must be friday I guess.