For those that say that Wilson lying is defense for Libby lying about Plame.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

If Russert lied, he should be charged too. But I don't see how any of this has to do wtih Libby lying or speaking to reporters about it. Sometimes classified info is known in media circles. But they can't publish it until they get confirmation from officials. Libby provided confirmation of leaked classified info. I see no difference between that and leaking it himself.

Can I be convicted of murder for shooting a dead body?

[ReBirth 0]

You don't get it. He CONFIRMED a rumor. Until someone official confirms something that the press has heard or found out, they can't publish it. The proper analogy would be....Can you be convicted of murder for shooting someone who was slowly dying from a stab wound. And the answer is yes.

[billvon 3,118]

>Can I be convicted of murder for shooting a dead body?

If you signed a contract saying "I agree to stand for murder if I ever shoot anyone in any condition" - yes.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Ever just get that gnawing feeling there's a lot more to this story we don't know yet?

-The CIA Intel on WMDs was apparently wrong and Plame work on WMD Intel.

-Why would Italian Intel present forged documents that are easily debunked?

Etc...

Don't forget that the CIA asks Plame's husband to go to Niger to follow-up on a request from the Vice-President's office to verify information about Iraq/Niger information related to the sale/attempted sale of uranium.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[AlexCrowley 0]

Quote

Ever just get that gnawing feeling there's a lot more to this story we don't know yet?

-The CIA Intel on WMDs was apparently wrong and Plame work on WMD Intel.

-Why would Italian Intel present forged documents that are easily debunked?

Etc...

Ya know, sometimes it's as if you're just looking for a fight

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[rushmc 23]

No, russert is still denying it (lying?) Andrea Mitchel is say that he and every other reporter new about Plames job before Libby talked to Russert?

Gonna get interesting!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Are you still insisting Plame was outed?

With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
For the story behind the story...


Friday, Nov. 4, 2005 12:08 p.m. EST
Press Still Insists Valerie Plame 'Covert'

A week after Leakgate Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald announced that his investigation had been unable to establish that Valerie Plame was a "covert" CIA agent at the time she was "outed" by columnist Robert Novak, the press continues to refer to her using the bogus term.

In the last six days, there have been 261 references to Plame's "covert" status in mainstream media accounts, according to a Lexis Nexis search. The wave of erroneous reporting continues despite Fitzgerald's clear denials during his press conference last Friday after announcing Lewis "Scooter" Libby's indictment.

Asked about Plame's "covert" status, Fitzgerald told reporters:

"I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward . . . We have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly, intentionally outed a covert agent. We have not charged that. And so I'm not making that assertion." [END EXCERPT]

Fitzgerald explained instead that Plame's CIA association was "classified," a security status enjoyed by almost everyone who works at the agency.
In the two-plus years between Plame's alleged "outing" and Fitzgerald's press conference, there were more than 3,100 false media reports referring to her as a "covert" agent.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

Quote

Asked about Plame's "covert" status, Fitzgerald told reporters:

"I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert

No, that's not his job, is it? That will come out in the evidence. There appears to be quite a bit of evidence indicating that she was covert. There aren't a lot of former CIA agents who go trumpeting it around, so regardless she probably didn't want it shared, and the US government (as evidenced by Bush's comments about her outing) seems to take a dim view of it also.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ReBirth 0]

Are you still insisting newsmax is a valid unbiased new source?


Fitzgerald didn't say she wasn't covert, just that he's not commenting on that aspect because it has nothin to do with the charges. The rest of your article is editorial.

[rushmc 23]

Time line is more important here. By everything I have come across she was working in a Washingtion CIA office for 5 or 6 years "before" this mess started. By law, "covert" means she was undercover and I think (but I am not sure) she needed to be out of the US.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

Quote

I think (but I am not sure) she needed to be out of the US.

If I were you I'd check that one. It might be that while actually operating as a spy she is not to be in hte US (based on my limited understanding of the CIA's charter). But she is most definitely able to come and go, while maintaining her covert status.

And as a trained person, she might be not-very-active for awhile either because there's no need for her skills right then, or because she's asked for desk duty for awhile. But she's still covert, because they might need her again, and they for damn sure can't use her once her cover is blown.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ReBirth 0]

Ok...maybe a covert operative wasn't outted. Maybe it was just classified information being leaked. Is that better somehow?

By the way...where did you find the legal definition of "covert"?

[rushmc 23]

Covert mean undercover in a secret operation. Again, I am not sure whether in or out of the US applies but they do have to be "undercover". Working in an office in the US is NOT undercover.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ReBirth 0]

Where are you getting this "legal definition" of covert?

And how do you know she wasn't doing other things while working in an office in the US?

[rushmc 23]

Again, I am not sure on that one. But do know that they have to be undercover. Working in the CIA office in Washington is not "undercover".

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

Quote

Covert mean undercover in a secerat operation

Don't think so. Covert means that her profession as a spy is well-enough hidden that she can operate as one. There probably aren't all that many in-country deep cover spies over all (which would be someone who is always operating). The people who come in and out are also covert. Really.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,118]

>Working in an office in the US is NOT undercover.

Wow. Just - wow. Do you think covert agents are all just like James Bond, running around foreign countries with fake passports, hidden guns and fast cars to make a quick getaway? Some of them spend most of their time in the US. Which is a good thing - there are threats inside the US as well.

I can't imagine the explosion of fury and hate we would see from the right if Ted Kennedy outed a covert agent who was working in the US to improve his chances of re-election.

[wmw999 2,588]

Quote

Working in the CIA office in Washington is not "undercover".

Working in the CIA office in Washington is, however, good use of talent when someone is between out-of-country assignments. And keeping their status as possible covert agent secret means you get to use them again, instead of only once.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

From Dictionary.com

Not openly practiced, avowed, engaged in, accumulated, or shown: covert military operations; covert funding for the rebels. See Synonyms at secret.
Covered or covered over; sheltered.
Law. Being married and therefore protected by one's husband.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Oh come on. Go read the law. I states that the agent has to be undercover or "covert". All CIA agents are classified.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ReBirth 0]

I didn't know dictionary.com was a legal reference. But let's suppose it is for a minute.

Can you tell me what all of her activities were? You can tell me she was working in an office, but maybe that part of it wasn't covert. By the very definition you posted, you wouldn't be able to say what else she was involved in, because you wouldn't know about it.

[rushmc 23]

Not in the context of the law that all of this revolves around. Even the author of the law says Plame was not covered by the this law.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

You all are reaching here. We are talking about this in the context of the law that was supposed to have been broken. In that context, under the law, Plame was not outed. It really is that simple.

If I can find this law I will post it. If somebody is faster please help me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,118]

>Plame was not outed. It really is that simple.

The fact that you are talking about an outed, formerly covert, CIA agent on a public forum doesn't even faze you, does it. Besides, I thought you were concentrating on the "Wilson outed her" talking point.

[rushmc 23]

You know dam well that the Wilson outing her was out there when I put the (black helicopters) behind it. And you say what doen't phase me

I guess the CIA doesn't have any admin or other in states support that are not involved in secret operations.

Again, this whole issue is in the context of the law that was "supposed" to have been broken. What the heck is so hard about understanding this?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln