The war supporters. What are our troops dying for?

[billvon 3,116]

And, remarkably, people are finally figuring that out. Most recent job approval poll puts him at 35% approve, 57% disapprove. It took them five years, but better late than never.

[mnealtx 0]

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>Where is the proof?

Paul Wolfowitz said so. See above.

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...is that we had virtually no economic options with Iraq because the country floats on a sea of oil."

There's a big difference between saying "economic sanctions have little effect due to their oil income" (which is the gist of the quoted statement), and saying "we invaded because of oil", with the side subject of "oil companies running the gov't", etc...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Gravitymaster 0]

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And, remarkably, people are finally figuring that out. Most recent job approval poll puts him at 35% approve, 57% disapprove. It took them five years, but better late than never.

Rasmussen has it at 43% approval. Based on how accurately they predicted the last election, I'd give their poll much more credibility.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

[Scoop 0]

I think that the real reason was because we (UK/US etc) see Iraq as a major threat. A developing country that was lead by a vicious dictator that was responsible for horrible events.

I think it was neccesary for him to be taken out, one way or another. The reasons given werent neccesarily correct but the ultimate conclusion is what was needed.

And while are troops, who are probably mostly my age or younger are over there. Im gonna support them. Last thing they need in situations like that is returning and everyone telling them what they are fighting for is wrong

[ViperPilot 0]

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Do you have any proof?

I read about this in a few articles. It was all going on because of the UN economic sanctions on Iraq. Saddam was being "forced" by the UN to spend $X on supporting the welfare of his people. But he had other plans, i.e. funneling the money to offshore accounts for personal use, like any good dictator would do. I don't have the time right now to go digging for the figures, but it's out there. I can post them here when I get some time. Remind me.

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According to recent polls the Iraqi people we are so called saving don’t agree. Most I think it was 80-90% believe life has gotten worst since we invaded.

40 mass graves have been found in Iraq. "We believe that there are 300,000 dead -- and that's the lower end of the estimates. Others, including some Iraqis, place the total number of Iraqis executed in the Husseing era closer to 500,000." - Sandra Hodgkinson, Director of Human Rights in the CPA Office of Human Rights and Transitional Justice. So there weren't ANY human rights issues at all that could have possibly been a factor to go to war?

Polls - Every poll you'll see, the Iraqi people OVERWHELMINGLY want democracy. Some figures:

87% believe right to free and fair elections is very important.

90% believe people should abide by law and criminals are punished is very important.

73% believe right to criticize the government is very important.

The Iraqis, just like the American people, are growing tired of a war that none of them realize is impossible to fight in a matter of months (depsite what the administration said...yes, they were idiots for saying stuff along those lines). The Iraqi public overwhelmingly supported the US-led coalition through 2004. They have recently grown tired and now think the US should leave, but at the same time still have a the same high demand for democracy. They STILL want something badly that at this time CANNOT happen w/o US presence.

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At best Iraq will have a goverment like Iran same majority. That is not a good out come in my book
Also Iraq is not the only place on the planet that injustice have taken place. Much of the world needs democracy.

How do you deduce that Iraq will have a radical theocracy led by a lunatic that all the people will despise, but do nothing about (at least yet)? And "at best" nonetheless? Explain your reasoning for that one. Of course Iraq isn't the only place, but it's a damn good place to start considering the growing strength and threat of the radical Islamist movement. Thus, you need to pit strength against that movement, which stems from the Middle East.

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If the government would have listened to the people screaming this is blood for oil

Listened to the people who have no idea what they're talking about? My friend, please explain how this war was just for oil? How much oil do we get from the Middle East? (You can look at my previous post). How much have we increased our oil intake from the Middle East since going into Iraq? (I'll give you a hint...it's 0). Thirdly, if this was all for oil, then why am I still paying almost $3/gallon? A giant conspiracy you'll say...of course, why didn't I think of that!

[Botellines 0]

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if this was all for oil, then why am I still paying almost $3/gallon? A giant conspiracy you'll say...of course, why didn't I think of that!

That the war is about oil doesn´t necesarilt means it is so you will get cheaper gas. Have you ever thought that it could very well be quite the opposite? As far as i know, the oil companies are doing pretty well despite (or due to) this mess. It is just you, the average citizen, who is getting screwed at the gas station.
The fact that Bush has ties to the oil industry (hell, i think he even owns an oil company Arbusto or something like that) points out to a huge conflict of interests.

But hey, what could i possibly know, i am just a Bush and US basher.

[mnealtx 0]

Incorrect...but thanks for playing!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Botellines 0]

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Incorrect...but thanks for playing!

That is what happens when you bring common sense to SC

Don´t you see a conflict of interest? (Does that term makes sense in English?)

I mean, it is like putting the wolf in charge of the lambs, how is he going to do a good job and be fair when he has a great deal to win by not doing his job properly.

[mnealtx 0]

No, you need to do some research...

Yes, Bush started Arbusto Energy, back in the late 80's...and sold it shortly thereafter - the early 90's, I believe.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ReBirth 0]

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if this was all for oil, then why am I still paying almost $3/gallon?

It wasn't so that everyone could have cheap gas. It was for CONTROL of the oil.

Ask yourself this question...Why did the top 5 oil companies just report their most profitable quarters in history and have the largest cash reserves they've ever had....and you're still paying almost $3/gal. for gas?

[Alias 0]

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1. Saddam was dishing out millions to fund WMD research, terrorist organizations, etc. True, no direct link to OBL, but where his money goes after being routed through 10 foreign bank accounts, including Swiss and Caymans...hmm. This also plays into the idea that fighting terrorism and its support on foreign soil is much better than fighting it at home..

But Iraq had no where near the amount of AQ energy as it has now that that US has invaded. Now I guess the many other terrorist supporting countries are now in our scopes for temporary occupation?

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2. Humanitarian reasons. He was killing off his people, either by torture, plain old murder, or simply running such a corrupt system that people just couldn't keep their lives going.

Again, not unique. Since this is a top two reason, where next? Africa would be a good start...ready to go there also with the same force?

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3. Attempt to establish a democratic state in a region where fundamental Islam is rising (i.e. Iran). Having a stable, democratic state in the region would provide some strength against such a large uprising of a radical Islamic nation (which many want to happen in the greater Middle East).

FOR OIL!

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4. Possibly preserve and make better oil ties in the Middle East (since Saudi is crapping out). However, this is a distant objective considering we have not done anything w/ the oil, as we only get somewhere aroudn 8% of our total oil from the Middle East. And no, I see nothing wrong in having motives to do with energy.

missing the OIL point. It's not about how much we get from where. It's about who has the largest reserves. Calculate that one

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It's completely out of line to say our troops are dying for no reason.

Agreed. But to have so many reasons surfacing once one is shot down is shitty! They have been lied to like the US public. Face it. Bush shows a lack of respect for our troops in my opinion. There are many many top key people who are now NOT a fan of what has happened. Powell being one of them.

Agreed that we owe respect to our troops for thier sacrifice! The issue most have is that we are at war and we have been seriously mis-lead! That is where I have a major problem. The arrogance and abuse of power on a global level is out of control! I sometimes feel embarrassed to dicsuss this when traveling abroad. The many opinions I have heard from over 20 countries all are the same. "arrogance and abuse of power on a global level "

We forget there is a world full of other people.

Carpe Diem

[Channman 2]

>Well that's a good decision if you have nothing factual to add. I wish more people were like that.

Well actually I was done for the day. Had more importants things to attend to then type away on the computer.

Sometimes its like talking to a wall here in SC.

Look I know you don't like the war, and you don't like the Pres, and you don't like America being a bully, were not but you think we are. I know you feel safe with your head in the sand, but I think we need to finish this fight.

Just to add, I have a plexiglass belly button, so when I do get my head up my ass from time to time, I can still see where I'm going.

Could be why I have an acking ass.

[billvon 3,116]

>There's a big difference between saying "economic sanctions have
> little effect due to their oil income" (which is the gist of the quoted
> statement), and saying "we invaded because of oil" . . .

I didn't say that. I said that oil was one of the reasons we invaded, as evinced by Wolfowitz's statement. The rather shrill claim "it's not about the oil, stupid!" is nonsense.

[Channman 2]

>...poll puts him at 35% approve,...

Damn, and I just read Zogby had him at 45%. Them poll numbers which one should I be reading.

Cheers

[Botellines 0]

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No, you need to do some research...

Yes, Bush started Arbusto Energy, back in the late 80's...and sold it shortly thereafter - the early 90's, I believe.

So you are teling us that Bush has no ties to the oil industry, and therefore there is no potential (to say the least) conflict of interests.

Please, correct me if i am wrong.

[billvon 3,116]

To be fair, Bush is no longer being paid by any oil companies. Cheney is a different story of course.

[mnealtx 0]

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No, you need to do some research...

Yes, Bush started Arbusto Energy, back in the late 80's...and sold it shortly thereafter - the early 90's, I believe.

So you are teling us that Bush has no ties to the oil industry, and therefore there is no potential (to say the least) conflict of interests.

Please, correct me if i am wrong.

I can't tell you that - I don't know what stocks he holds. I was correcting your information about him owning an oil company.

Can you provide proof that he is "taking orders" from the oil companies?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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To be fair, Bush is no longer being paid by any oil companies. Cheney is a different story of course.

Yes, he is still receiving pay from a severance package... your point is?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Botellines 0]

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Look I know you don't like the war, and you don't like the Pres, and you don't like America being a bully, were not but you think we are.

You make it sound like it is all wrong to be that way.

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I know you feel safe with your head in the sand, but I think we need to finish this fight.

Fair enough, i agree with those who think that you have to fix what you break. However, i have my concerns that the U.S is more interested in getting its way (whatever that is) rather than fixing things in Irak. Sort of, sure, i will fix this but first i will get my way,

In any case most Bush supporters want to shift attention from the how we got here to the what do we do now. It is time to take make whoever is responsible for this mess take responsability.

[markd_nscr986 0]

***Ask yourself this question...Why did the top 5 oil companies just report their most profitable quarters in history and have the largest cash reserves they've ever had....and you're still paying almost $3/gal. for gas?


Of course...............I've got it!

Because they're a monopoly!

(Oh wait a minute,they are only several THOUSAND energy companies in the states........not a very good monopoly)

Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004

[Channman 2]

>...time to take make whoever is responsible for this mess take responsability.

Agreed, and Saddam is going on trail sometime this month.

[Botellines 0]

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>...time to take make whoever is responsible for this mess take responsability.

Agreed, and Saddam is going on trail sometime this month.

Sorry, i wasn´t speaking about the "It-is-their-fault-because-they-hate-freedom" kind of responsability.

I would like to think you know what i am talking about...

[billvon 3,116]

>your point is?

Just that Cheney is being paid by a company that is getting lots of lucrative government contracts. I am sure you will not see that as a problem; others do.

[Amazon 7]

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Set aside he went to a top US school, he has his wits about him

Egad.. he was a freakin preppie cheerleader at Phillips Academy..its all the rage for the rich elitists like his family.


He is the face man for a bunch of fellow Vietnam draft dodging cowards who... having no idea what a REAL war is like they " thought" our troops would be met with flowers. Most of these guys must have fried what few brain cells they had by snorting cocaine in large amounts back in the 80's

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Bush really cant bea dumbass, maybe he has incompetent people below him who fuck things up,

Most of them learned thier tradecraft in the Nixon-Ford administration or in the Regan- Bush1 administration. The same paranoia about the press.. the same bag of dirty tricks if you do not agree with thier agenda ( you are either with us or against us mentality) the same illegal bullshit... just more of the same old shit. And the troops pay the price with thier lives.

[SudsyFist 0]

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The same paranoia about the press.. the same bag of dirty tricks if you do not agree with thier agenda

That's the status quo. What really saddens me is that most people have come to just accept that, rather than hold our leadership to higher standards.

Big Macs. Nike. Friends. Trallalalalalalala.