Skydivers and Morality: A Practical Discourse

[skyhigh57 0]

Scenario:

At a dropzone in the Southeastern US, a tandem passenger falls out of his harniss and to his demise (for whatever reason).

The incidence happens on a Saturday and the body can't be located by law-enforcement before nightfall. Of course, this does not prevent 300+ skydivers to have a one-of-a-kind party and enjoy themselves, knowing full-well that there is the broken corpse of a man lying somewhere nearby.

Question: Wouldn't it have been the morally right thing to do to immediately cancel all festivities and line up 300 ppl to search the woods? Is personal gratification and enjoyment all what the skydiving "community" is about w/ no regards whatsoever for our fellow men.


Edited to take politics out of it and allow to focus on the moral dimension.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Scenario:

At a dropzone in the Southeastern US, a "special needs" tandem passenger falls out of his harniss and to his demise (for whatever reason).

The incidence happens on a Saturday and the body can't be located by law-enforcement before nightfall. Of course, this does not prevent 300+ skydivers to have a one-of-a-kind party and enjoy themselves, knowing full-well that there is the broken corpse of a man lying somewhere nearby.

Question: Wouldn't it have been the morally right thing to do to immediately cancel all festivities and line up 300 ppl to search the woods? Is personal gratification and enjoyment all what this is about w/ no thoughts whatsoever for our fellow men.

Regardless, holding the party was perhaps a very poor choice.

edited to follow suit to leave out the politics.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[ViperPilot 0]

Ridiculous and sickening all at the same time.

Edit: Now that you've changed it...yeah that's real dick to just party while some poor guy's body is laying in a field. At least have the decency to hold it off until after the body is found, taken away, etc.

[artistcalledian 0]

you can't let the beers get warm !

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[BillyVance 34]

If I had been there and known the situation with the missing body, I would have just left my costume in the bag and gone to help find the body, then gone on home.

It's nothing personal, but keeping the party on was probably in poor taste...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skycat 0]

Personally, I'm too sensitive to have gone looking for the body. Just knowing it happened would have been enough to send me home for the day crying.

Fly it like you stole it!

[SudsyFist 0]

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It's nothing personal, but keeping the party on was probably in poor taste...

I, for one, would want the party to go on if I go in. Celebrate my memory, or the fact that you'll never have to deal with me again, whichever suits your particular fancy... but don't have everyone scurry off and huddle in some fucking corner.

And I hope at least one lonely soul gets a sympathy fuck as a result of my death. In fact, the more, the merrier.

[carternick79 0]

I was at this event.. Actually I was on that VERY same jump run and help the handicapped gentleman (that I had gotten to know over the past month) out of the plane I can say that not alot of people knew about this until the next day when the DZ owners canceled the jumps so that the search helicopters could locate him. I will say that I tried to help and that the local law enforcement did not want me to help them search for some reason, cause I asked. It's easy to sit here and judge people but unless you were there and knew what was going on you really don't have the right, especially if you were there and knew about this and still didn't try and help. I do want to send my prayers to this wonderful mans family and friends for their great loss. This guy had so many things go bad for him in his life that put him in his wheelchair but he never gave up on it and no matter who was around I always saw him smiling... R.I.P.

*** That what does not kill me only makes me stronger and that what makes me stronger only feeds my hunger ***

[Tink1717 2]

OK, I don't know the specifics of the incident other than the thread in the forums. So, I can't speculate on the demise of the tandem passenger. However, I can give insight on the search operation. As a professional firefighter/paramedic, it would be highly unlikely that a group of untrained civilians who are associated with the incident would be allowed to participate in the body recovery. That being said, there would have been no reason to cancel the event. If I was an incident commander, I would never allow it.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Zenister 0]

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It's nothing personal, but keeping the party on was probably in poor taste...

I, for one, would want the party to go on if I go in. Celebrate my memory, or the fact that you'll never have to deal with me again, whichever suits your particular fancy... but don't have everyone scurry off and huddle in some fucking corner.

And I hope at least one lonely soul gets a sympathy fuck as a result of my death. In fact, the more, the merrier.

amen... you arent going to be doing me or anyone else any good by finding me.. i will still be there in the morning...... its not as if you might reach me in time to help... so let the living enjoy their continued existance and raise a glass to those who can no longer say the same.....

in actual fact i've long since made arrangements for my 'post-mortem' party, and i'd be pretty annoyed with anyone who thought finding my corpse by staggering around in the dark instead of celebrating life was somehow 'helping me'

it isnt a "moral" decision at all...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[rhys 0]

'WTF' how can you fall out of a harness?!?!

is there a thread in the incident forum?

what system was it?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[RhondaLea 4]

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Scenario:

At a dropzone in the Southeastern US, a tandem passenger falls out of his harniss and to his demise (for whatever reason).

The incidence happens on a Saturday and the body can't be located by law-enforcement before nightfall. Of course, this does not prevent 300+ skydivers to have a one-of-a-kind party and enjoy themselves, knowing full-well that there is the broken corpse of a man lying somewhere nearby.

Question: Wouldn't it have been the morally right thing to do to immediately cancel all festivities and line up 300 ppl to search the woods? Is personal gratification and enjoyment all what the skydiving "community" is about w/ no regards whatsoever for our fellow men.

1. At most larger dropzones, fatality or not, jumping continues. At the smaller ones, because everyone knows the person who went in, it's less likely.

2. Law enforcement gave up the search at nightfall for a reason. That reason is probably two-fold: a) safety and b) it's hard to find much in the dark. 300+ skydivers traipsing around in the woods in the dark is probably not a good idea.

3. The people who were at the party were not likely to have known the the tandem passenger. You're asking them to do to things: a) conduct a search that professionals have called off, and b) to show excessive grief for a stranger.

Do you stop your life every time anyone dies? If so, when do you have time for a life?

In the absence of any practical thing these people could have done, what were they supposed to do? Cancel the party, go home and be sad about a stranger?

If you go home after a Saturday of jumping and read the dz.com fatality reports from all over the country, do you then fail to jump on Sunday "out of respect" for fallen skydivers whom you've never met?

Finally, if this person had been a regular at the dropzone, what do you think anyone would have done differently? Isn't it most likely that the party would have gone on, but in a slightly more subdued form, as a kind of wake? I don't know about ASC, but in most of the places I've been, everyone gathers together afterward to offer each other support.

Life is for the living. Skydiving, as I know it, is a triumph of life over death. Cancelling the party would have honored that not at all.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[artistcalledian 0]

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Scenario:

At a dropzone in the Southeastern US, a tandem passenger falls out of his harniss and to his demise (for whatever reason).

The incidence happens on a Saturday and the body can't be located by law-enforcement before nightfall. Of course, this does not prevent 300+ skydivers to have a one-of-a-kind party and enjoy themselves, knowing full-well that there is the broken corpse of a man lying somewhere nearby.

Question: Wouldn't it have been the morally right thing to do to immediately cancel all festivities and line up 300 ppl to search the woods? Is personal gratification and enjoyment all what the skydiving "community" is about w/ no regards whatsoever for our fellow men.

1. At most larger dropzones, fatality or not, jumping continues. At the smaller ones, because everyone knows the person who went in, it's less likely.

2. Law enforcement gave up the search at nightfall for a reason. That reason is probably two-fold: a) safety and b) it's hard to find much in the dark. 300+ skydivers traipsing around in the woods in the dark is probably not a good idea.

3. The people who were at the party were not likely to have known the the tandem passenger. You're asking them to do to things: a) conduct a search that professionals have called off, and b) to show excessive grief for a stranger.

Do you stop your life every time anyone dies? If so, when do you have time for a life?

In the absence of any practical thing these people could have done, what were they supposed to do? Cancel the party, go home and be sad about a stranger?

If you go home after a Saturday of jumping and read the dz.com fatality reports from all over the country, do you then fail to jump on Sunday "out of respect" for fallen skydivers whom you've never met?

Finally, if this person had been a regular at the dropzone, what do you think anyone would have done differently? Isn't it most likely that the party would have gone on, but in a slightly more subdued form, as a kind of wake? I don't know about ASC, but in most of the places I've been, everyone gathers together afterward to offer each other support.

Life is for the living. Skydiving, as I know it, is a triumph of life over death. Cancelling the party would have honored that not at all.

rl

you know what, joking aside, i agree 100% with what you've said

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[EricTheRed 0]

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Scenario:

At a dropzone in the Southeastern US, a tandem passenger falls out of his harniss and to his demise (for whatever reason).

The incidence happens on a Saturday and the body can't be located by law-enforcement before nightfall. Of course, this does not prevent 300+ skydivers to have a one-of-a-kind party and enjoy themselves, knowing full-well that there is the broken corpse of a man lying somewhere nearby.

Question: Wouldn't it have been the morally right thing to do to immediately cancel all festivities and line up 300 ppl to search the woods? Is personal gratification and enjoyment all what the skydiving "community" is about w/ no regards whatsoever for our fellow men.


Edited to take politics out of it and allow to focus on the moral dimension.

IMO - No one at the DZ should party until the body is found.

Those people should be spending their time searching.

illegible usually

[Newbie 0]

I think it comes down to personal characteristics of the person you are asking - hence the multitude of different responses you see here. What's "morally" right for some, can be quickly dismissed as "not even being about morality" to others.

I don't think 300 skydivers trapsing about in the dark would be the right thing to do. Neither do i feel partying like fuck all had happened is either. To me it would be about balance. Party arranged for the night? Cool, let's drink. Someone went in (stranger to me or not) on my dz - man that really fucking sucks. Cancel the party? No. Celebrate and get debaucherous like there is no tomorrow? No. Have a few drinks with friends and reflect on life? Most likely the option i would be taking, but each to their own.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[BillyVance 34]

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Someone went in (stranger to me or not) on my dz - man that really fucking sucks. Cancel the party? No. Celebrate and get debaucherous like there is no tomorrow? No. Have a few drinks with friends and reflect on life? Most likely the option i would be taking, but each to their own.

That sounds more like the approach I would have if it was my home DZ.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Kris 0]

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Those people should be spending their time searching.

If you're not trained in SAR, then you're just in the authorities way. There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way.

300 untrained searchers in the dark is going to cause a lot more problems than solutions.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[TypicalFish 0]

I am sure the family of the deceased appreciated the party just going on as if nothing happened while their husband/father was lying broken in the woods.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I am sure the family of the deceased appreciated the party just going on as if nothing happened while their husband/father was lying broken in the woods.

I agree with Kris...untrained people do not make good search and rescue operations especially at night.

But to not tone down a party when someone (and I don't care if you knew them or not) died at YOUR DZ? Seems to be poor taste to me. Especially when I bet many people who were present at the party were also there during the day when it happened.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rehmwa 2]

Was this a big planned out "PARTY"? or just the typical weekend sit by the bonfire and maybe have a keg on tap kind of "party"?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[TypicalFish 0]

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...untrained people do not make good search and rescue operations especially at night.

As a former member of a SAR squad in Montgomery County, MD, I agree completely. I am not saying to send everyone out into the woods to do the professionals job, I am just saying show a little respect for the jumper and his family and consider cancelling (or moving) the party.

"I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Was this a big planned out "PARTY"? or just the typical weekend sit by the bonfire and maybe have a keg on tap kind of "party"?

Planned. But does that matter? Are monetary and logistic concerns more important than the fact that someone died AT YOUR DZ that day?

Well, if it is (and I think that is quite sad), look at it from that point of view: holding a huge party following such a death probably does not help in the ensuing lawsuit.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I am sure the family of the deceased appreciated the party just going on as if nothing happened while their husband/father was lying broken in the woods.

Well, that is just it. Regular jumpers know the attitude of many skydivers when it comes to this...

However, there is a big business side to this as well, one that is driven by perception. If the perception is that the company throws a nice big party when one of their customers craters and they can't find the body, well that perception isn't to favourable for future customers.

[rehmwa 2]

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Was this a big planned out "PARTY"? or just the typical weekend sit by the bonfire and maybe have a keg on tap kind of "party"?

Planned. But does that matter? Are monetary and logistic concerns more important than the fact that someone died AT YOUR DZ that day?

Well, if it is (and I think that is quite sad), look at it from that point of view: holding a huge party following such a death probably does not help in the ensuing lawsuit.

Big Planned party = EVENT, I'd think it would appropriate to tone that down after the incident. Sounds like is wasn't and I'd disagree with that.

Little bonfire thing like every weekend = nothing, I'd expect that kind of thing wouldn't matter and most people would likely be quiet, respectful and very well spend time contemplating the events of the day.

You got me backwards in intent. That's it, I'm moving my Cuervo Island condo to the other end of the beach now.

I do think that if the Search and Rescue team Professionals had REQUESTED help, most any skydivers I know would jump at the opportunity to help in this type of situation.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GTAVercetti 0]

Okay, even of this miscommunication thing. Cuervo Island is calling my name too.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.