Lewis Libby Indictment

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I am also amazed at your inability to think outside of the party line, it demonstrates an lack of independent thought. All you do is churn out the same partisan drivel, post after post, thread after thread, it is quite sad.

A quick check of your posting history makes me laugh so hard and so loud at this statement I almost peed my pants.

Long's or most other drug stores will sell you adult diapers to help you with your incontinence, they are next to the regular baby diapers I buy for my 1 year old, he also does what he is told by his parents, but by the time he is grown up he will think for himself.

Good thing you are a lefty. Many of us on the right would at least get a warning for such a stupid and weak attempt at an insult. I won't stoop to your level though. Heck, Ron got banned for less than what you said.

[DaVinci 0]

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You consider FOX News a biased left wing site? What would an impartial site be - Tom Delay's home page?

Wow for a moderator you sure like to start trouble.

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You've been reading too many right wing blogs

Wow, nice assumption there Moderator.

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Blaming the victim isn't going to make this one go away. Treason is a serious crime, and it's not OK to brush it under the carpet

Did I ever say it was not a serious crime? No, in fact I did mention that Lying under oath is bad. I did mention that you guys defended Clinton like crazy, but want this guy to hang.

You have accused me of several things without any facts. I do not have a history of posting on this site, and the first time I do post,I get jumped on and attacked by A MODERATOR.

Seems to me that a guy that is supposed to keep the peace should not be the same guy that starts shit.

[DaVinci 0]

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Now, where are YOU getting your info that he is a nothing?

Knowledge of a system of government.

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All I see is your uninformed opinion based seemingly based on the idea that you have never heard of him

You claim to know alot about me. How do you know I have never heard of him before?

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Its amazing how you can glaze over sources so this can fit YOUR agenda.

Who said I am? I have said I hope that if guilty that he faces more punishment than Clinton.

My whole post was that I found it interesting that the same people who defended Clinton and claimed that the right was after him are doing the same thing now and starting more trouble over a lesser fiqure.

YOU debated the extent of Libby's power. It is safe to say that it is in fact less than Clintons.

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And stop implying I am a democrat please

As soon as you quit to claim to know me, you will get the same in return.

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But the fact is that THAT situation is gone and not coming back. The current one is that this man may have lied. Let's deal with the present please.

That and "No one died when Clinton Lied!" are two very left sayings.

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To go the EXTREME: Do we let a guy off for murder simply because we let the last guy go?

No but you apply justice fairly. This is the basis of all race problems. You have to apply justice with an even hand. something you seem to be unwilling to do.

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Perjury ain't murder, but last time I checked, it was still a crime

And it was a crime when Clinton did it, and he was found guilty. Libby has not yet been found guilty, and his level of power is nothing compared to the last guy that lied under oath.

I also don't see you up in arms about Berger. I would think stealing classified documents would be right up there as well.

And he lied about it at first, then said it was a mistake, then finally admitted to it.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/08/berger.sentenced/

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Berger's associates admit he took five copies of an after-action report detailing the 2000 millennium terror plot from the Archives. The aides say Berger returned to his office, discovered that three of the copies appeared to be duplicates and cut them up with scissors.

*The revelations were a dramatic change from Berger's claim last year that he had made an "honest mistake"* and either misplaced or unintentionally threw the documents away.

I would put Berger higher on the political scale than Libby. But you are still hunting anyone in Bush's camp while defedning anyone on the left.

[GTAVercetti 0]

Yup, you got me dead to rights.

This is pointless, I am done with this line. Like I said, as many sources as I can throw at you, from the RIGHT and you STILL insist on comparing to Clinton. The idea that Liiby is unimportant (and therefore so is his possible crimes) is right spin (although from what right I am not sure since the CONSREVATIVE sources I have given all proclaim his importance) just like the idea that Clinton's perjury was no big deal is left spin.

Let me sum it up and then I am out: Clinton was wrong and I really don't care WHAT the left is saying about it, they are wrong to apply a double standard too. Of course, the right is doing the same in this situation. So I guess they are BOTH wrong...kind of a common theme in my posts.

Next topic please.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[wmw999 2,545]

It doesn't matter if Clinton was more powerful and still lied under oath. Each act stands on its own, and should be compared against the law, not against each other.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mnealtx 0]

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>You can even keep finding biased sites all day long . . .

You consider FOX News a biased left wing site? What would an impartial site be - Tom Delay's home page?

>You have a guy that is reported to have outted a CIA agent whoes
>husband had refered to her as his "CIA wife" at parties.

You've been reading too many right wing blogs. Blaming the victim isn't going to make this one go away. Treason is a serious crime, and it's not OK to brush it under the carpet.

Gonna double suck for her, then, losing her job AND having her husband in prison... since her husband introducing her as his "CIA wife", if true, would be equally treasonous as what Libby is being accused of...

Of course, her husband isn't a member of the current administration, and will get a "bye" on prosecution...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnnyD 0]

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>husband had refered to her as his "CIA wife" at parties.

Anyone have a credible source for this? I find it interesting that her family didn't know, but the claims that "people heard this at parties" is going around. Certainly these "people that heard it" have been interviewed and deposed. Certainly we can identify "them".
I know I shouldn't be, but yet I am amazed that reasonable people with the ability to think rationally would believe that a career undercover CIA agent would be so cavalier with her cover.

[wmw999 2,545]

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I am amazed that reasonable people with the ability to think rationally would believe that a career undercover CIA agent would be so cavalier with her cover

[sarcasm]She married a liberal. Anything stupid is possible.[/sarcasm]

right?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DaVinci 0]

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Like I said, as many sources as I can throw at you

The problem with sources in the news about a news story is that the news will make something important even if it is not normally.

The news people know a large portion of the readers WANT a story that hints of the Administration being involved in illegal activities. So they will feed them exactly that.

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The idea that Liiby is unimportant (and therefore so is his possible crimes) is right spin

Now I never said that he should get away for his crimes *if he is guilty*. But I have said I wish he gets the same deal that Clinton recieved for the same thing. Thats called "fair".

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Let me sum it up and then I am out: Clinton was wrong and I really don't care WHAT the left is saying about it, they are wrong to apply a double standard too. Of course, the right is doing the same in this situation. So I guess they are BOTH wrong...kind of a common theme in my posts.

Did you see me once say that Libby should get off? No, you cannot find that.

I just pointed out, as you have, that it is interesting that the same people who defended Clinton lying under oath are quick to ask for Libby's head (and Bush's).

YOU took offence to me saying that Libby is a nothing. All you have done is provide links about this case where they claim that he is important. Well thats what the news does. If you knew more about politics, and what an aide really does you would find it as funny as I do that people think he was powerful.

But enough of this, you and I seem to agree on everything except Libby's power level.

[sfc 1]

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I am also amazed at your inability to think outside of the party line, it demonstrates an lack of independent thought. All you do is churn out the same partisan drivel, post after post, thread after thread, it is quite sad.

A quick check of your posting history makes me laugh so hard and so loud at this statement I almost peed my pants.

Long's or most other drug stores will sell you adult diapers to help you with your incontinence, they are next to the regular baby diapers I buy for my 1 year old, he also does what he is told by his parents, but by the time he is grown up he will think for himself.

Good thing you are a lefty. Many of us on the right would at least get a warning for such a stupid and weak attempt at an insult. I won't stoop to your level though. Heck, Ron got banned for less than what you said.

Ok enough, will you now answer my origianl question about why you introduced hilary clinton's whitewater testimony into your discussion of libby's indictment?

I don't expect you will, your track record shows that you either ignore difficult questions or change the topic as you have in this thread.

[billvon 3,076]

>since her husband introducing her as his "CIA wife" . . .

Nope. This is something the right wing made up out of desperation. There is no evidence he ever said this. The prosecutor even sent people into her neighborhood to ask the neighbors if they ever heard him say this; they all said no.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Ok enough, will you now answer my origianl question about why you introduced hilary clinton's whitewater testimony into your discussion of libby's indictment?

Already answered. But since you can't seem to recall the answer, I'll spell it out for you again. Invoking the 5th amendment is a right all Americans have. Libby, as an American, has this right. Because he was trying to be cooperative with the investigation, he did not invoke his 5th Amendment right as he could have and had he, wouldn't have been charged with perjury.

Hillary Clinton, in an attempt to be uncooperative in numerous investigations including the Rose Law Firms rip off of clients invoked her 5th amendment right and therefore wasn't charged with anything.

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I don't expect you will, your track record shows that you either ignore difficult questions or change the topic as you have in this thread.

Actually, my track record show I normally don't respond to stupid, poorly reasoned posts once the person making them resorts to attacks against me and not what I say. In your case, I will make an exception. You might also want to review your own posting history before embarrassing yourself time and time again. Accusing me of being a hack for the NRA and then finding out I am neither a memeber nor do I own a gun, nor have I ever owned a gun, being a case in point.

[EricTheRed 0]

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Overhead from where?

Maybe from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Jennings_&_Associates

illegible usually

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>since her husband introducing her as his "CIA wife" . . .

Nope. This is something the right wing made up out of desperation. There is no evidence he ever said this. The prosecutor even sent people into her neighborhood to ask the neighbors if they ever heard him say this; they all said no.

Pretty weak evidence. If you asked my neighbors if I ever told them I was a skydiver or a rigger, they would tell you no, too.

[billvon 3,076]

>Pretty weak evidence.

Generally, in the US, when you accuse someone of something, you require evidence of your accusation. They don't have to come up with evidence that they didn't. I could accuse you of outing a CIA agent with as much authority as the people who have accused Wilson of outing his own wife.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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>Pretty weak evidence.

Generally, in the US, when you accuse someone of something, you require evidence of your accusation. They don't have to come up with evidence that they didn't. I could accuse you of outing a CIA agent with as much authority as the people who have accused Wilson of outing his own wife.

I was only taking issue with your statement that their neighbors stating he never told them she was a CIA agent isn't evidence that he never did. Not saying he did, just that because the neighbors didn't know doesn't mean others didn't know.

[wmw999 2,545]

Have you told them you are a skydiver or a rigger?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Have you told them you are a skydiver or a rigger?

Wendy W.

No, and that's my point exactly. The fact I never told my neighbors doesn't mean I haven't told anyone else. My neighbors probably know less about me that anyone.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Have you told them you are a skydiver or a rigger?

Wendy W.

No, and that's my point exactly. The fact I never told my neighbors doesn't mean I haven't told anyone else. My neighbors probably know less about me that anyone.

Yeah, but reports from one of plame's neighbors say they thought she was an economist. So evidently, they HAD been informed of AN occupation.

In any case, here is where we are breaking down:

There a a severe difference between knowing someone works at the CIA and knowing they are doing covert work there. If I say that my wife works at the CIA, it does not means I mean she is a covert spy.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Have you told them you are a skydiver or a rigger?

Wendy W.

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No, and that's my point exactly. The fact I never told my neighbors doesn't mean I haven't told anyone else. My neighbors probably know less about me that anyone.

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Yeah, but reports from one of plame's neighbors say they thought she was an economist. So evidently, they HAD been informed of AN occupation.

In any case, here is where we are breaking down:

There a a severe difference between knowing someone works at the CIA and knowing they are doing covert there. If I say that my wife works at the CIA, it does not means I mean she is a covert spy.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just saying that the fact you never discuss your occupation with neighbors isn't proof you never discuss it with anyone. In fact, I'd be less likely to share details of my life with my neighbors than I would most people because neighborhood tend to have a grapevine to some degree.

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[GTAVercetti 0]

I was just showing a difference between your situation and hers:

"David and Victoria Tillotson knew Valerie Plame as a neighbor and friend for more than five years. Plame was, the Tillotsons believed, an international economic consultant, taking occasional trips abroad while looking after her young children in an upper-class enclave of Northwest Washington."

So even though YOU had not told your neighbors what you do, Valierie Plame did AND was friends with them.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I was just showing a difference between your situation and hers:

"David and Victoria Tillotson knew Valerie Plame as a neighbor and friend for more than five years. Plame was, the Tillotsons believed, an international economic consultant, taking occasional trips abroad while looking after her young children in an upper-class enclave of Northwest Washington."

So even though YOU had not told your neighbors what you do, Valierie Plame did AND was friends with them.

Then why did she lie?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Then why did she lie?

because her employment status with the CIA was classified as she worked with and without official cover in a covert role....until she was outed as payback for her husband exposing the lie used to justify a war....

[GTAVercetti 0]

Are you serious? So, if you are a covert operator, and a neighbor says "So what do you do?" you say, "oh, i am a spy.'?

Really?

come on man. The nature of that work sometimes requires lying. Its called a cover story.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Point being that what someone tells their neighbors may be quite different than what they discuss with business associates, co-workers or even friends. I don't find it hard to believe that she was more open with friends that she had known for many years than she was with neighbors she'd only known for 5 years.