chuteless 1 #1 October 28, 2005 White supremesist Ernst Zundel was kicked out of Canada for denying the Holocaust. He is being indicted in Germany on november 8th. I think they should send himto serve his sentence at Auscwitz. He could spend his days listening to 6 million ghosts screaming in his ear. Bill Cole Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #2 October 28, 2005 First, I firmly believe the holocaust did occur. I have no doubts about that. When I first read your post, I thought, surely there must be more to it than that. From my US-based perspective, I believe our First Amendment would allow the right to espouse this or any such belief, however distasteful. It appears I was wrong. From this site, Quote "So what has Ernest Zundel done that has incurred the wrath of three powerful nations? He has had the audacity to question the accepted views of the Holocaust. And therein lies the problem. In Germany and many other countries simply questioning the holocaust is a crime. Basically Ernest Zundel is being persecuted for a belief." It would be interesting to note how far this ban extends. Would he be extradicted if he had denied the events in Statlin's USSR, the Ukraine of 1932, Bengal (1945), Cambodia, East Timor, Rwanda, Yugoslavia? THE holocaust was truly a horrid event, but so were they all.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #3 October 28, 2005 He was prosecuted in Canada for promoting hate, among other things. http://www.adl.org/learn/Ext_US/zundel.asp?xpicked=2&item=zundel Too bad he violated his visa in the States, we just wanted to be rid of him and the USA wouldn't keep him."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 October 28, 2005 I too, know in my heart that the holocaust did kill nearly 6 million Jews and another 5 million other minorities under the Nazi boot. And while I think that Zundel is out of his mind, I think it's strange that there are laws that restrict not only free speech, but freedom of thought as well. Any free society is going to know, and accept or reject, extremes in perspective.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #5 October 28, 2005 When Zundel was doing his thing in Toronto there was another Holocaust denier on the east coast named Jim Keegstra. Keegstra was charged with the 'false news' law which made it a crime to utter untruths in contravention to the 'aims of society' or some such, while Zundel was charged with promoting hatred towards an identifiable group. Both laws were challenged as unconstitutional with the 'false news' law falling and the 'promoting hatred' one standing. I agree with Gawain, a free society can deal with these nutcases much more effectively ad hoc than in the courts. Pushing these people underground just gives them the ability to operate in the shadows where their lies can find purchase among the weak minded and emotionally vulnerable. As for the American constitution protecting this guy, it does protect him from prosecution but not from expulsion. The US government expels people who's views they don't like quite regularly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #6 October 28, 2005 Good to see that the perpertraitors are being punished for their crimes - no "it happaned ages ago, leave it". Damn right he should be indicted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #7 October 28, 2005 QuoteGood to see that the perpertraitors are being punished for their crimes - no "it happaned ages ago, leave it". Damn right he should be indicted. Even if what he is guilty of is denying that there was a Holocaust? Inciting hatred? I wonder what exactly constitutes "inciting hatred." I think it's a lot more frightening to incarcerate people for what they think and say than it is to think and say hateful things.... linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #8 October 28, 2005 I see what you mean but his wrods would have caused deep hatred - the slaughter fo millinos of people, including children? Saying things like that is stupid - he shouldn't be incarcerated for long , but make it clear of the anguish he caused. He should have commen sense to keep his oppinions to himself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #9 October 29, 2005 I seem to remember that this concept was dealt with in another thread where it came out as "Free-Speech" versus "Malicious-Speech" or "Inciteful-Speech". In effect you have the right to freedom of speech & thought, but you must take the consequences of your exercise of that right. Holocaust-Denial is invariably associated with the promotion of Neo-Nazism and race-hatred & in the face of the incontrivertible evidence of the holocaust it is a patently false belief. As such, saying: "The Holocaust didn't happen!" is viewed in the same light as shouting: "I have a Bomb!" at airport security. Perhaps the "final"(sic) solution to this would be for us to invite Zundel & his "Friends" to a "Holocaust Denial Boogie" in Poland.... I'll pack the rigs they use... Volunteers to give them their Pin-Checks please? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #10 October 29, 2005 lololol good idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
