IanHarrop 43 #51 October 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's a perception, based upon a lot of news articles... Most other Christian countries do not seem to bang on about it quite as much as the US does (recently). I actually live here and I'm still not sure what you're talking about. Current Administration makes a lot of references to god, but that has little to do with fundamentalism. The very word tends to imply a particular sect, whereas Christianity emcompasses a rather diverse lot. The Mormons might be the only relevent body that could qualify as fundamentalist as they spend their efforts lobbying for gay marriage bans. It seems odd to me that the religious right is nowhere within your field of view or are you just blind to them."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #52 October 27, 2005 One (trivial) example would be the "Under God...." statemant that appears in your pledge.... The apparent growth of the Bible Belt in the US and it's increase politicisasion(?) Maybe it's easier to see from the outside (if in fact it exists at all other than in the minds of journalists). Maybe I'm just talking crap again (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #53 October 27, 2005 Quotenah, once again the French are to blame for giving Israel the bomb. While I like to rib the French, they only sold a 17 MWt Research reactor in 1956, and a 24 MWt reactor in 1957. Where France failed (if they cared about nuclear proliferation, which they don't all that much, not having acceeded to the NPT until 1992) was trying to "control" Israel's development. Simply, it wasn't congruent with Israel's doctrine.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Droolbaby 0 #54 October 27, 2005 QuoteQuoteI still don't understand the martyr thing and at this time it only appears to be Islam that promotes it. Something about a bunch of virgins waiting for martyrs in heaven. Well, it seemed just a few years ago that only Christianity supported the idea of a spaceship riding behind a comet to whisk the faithful to heaven, no? (link) It's silly to assume that the Islam supports terrorism because fringe elements, or even whole nations, do so in its name. We have plenty of examples of such in Christianity, both current and in history, where it's plainly evident that the doctrine of the faith was twisted by people to achieve specific ends, often political. As sad as it sounds, the vast majority of people are sheep to one extent to another, and very much influenced by the presence of a strong shepherd, whether it be a cult leader, a musician, or a name brand. If free-thinking could propagate on a vector of some prolific sort, such as mosquitos or cheeseburgers, I'd sing to the ensuing epidemic, "Ooooh, Heaven is a place on Earth." EDIT: Punctuation. EDIT EDIT: Spelling. *ugh* Well you can really take anything in this world and skew it to make it something different just by interpretation. The Kingdom of Heaven people were able to do this with their beliefs. The bible is written in a form that can be taken into several different contexts just through interpretation. Look at how many different Christian Religions there are based off one book. How many more will pop up due to this "interpretation" ideal? ...Happiness is just a drool away....mmmmm.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #55 October 28, 2005 QuoteOne (trivial) example would be the "Under God...." statemant that appears in your pledge.... The apparent growth of the Bible Belt in the US and it's increase politicisasion(?) You're right - "under god" is a trivial example. Have you any real ones? Debating if separation of state precludes having the 10 commandments on display is pretty weak stuff. Forcing the teaching of 'intelligent design' is getting more concerning, but that gets laughed off by most of the country, just as it did back in earlier times when these same type protested the read of Huck Finn. The religious right has always been around. Here in San Francisco, we have lots of fringe religions on the left. None of them affect me as an atheist. Religion mildly influences policy of one of the two parties. Hardly qualifies for the label you suggest of most fundamentalist on the planet. Now what's the story with Northern Ireland? The conflict may be more political in nature, but the division is also Protestant versus Catholic, and with considerable violence. If the worst I see of religion is these academic discussion of the pledge and evolution, I'll lose not a wink of sleep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #56 October 28, 2005 Quotewhy the fuck did they allow the paddys in new york There you go with the derogatory ethnic remarks again. Freakin limey, crumpet sucking, febs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #57 October 28, 2005 Quote[...Simply, it wasn't congruent with Israel's doctrine. I say turn the Israelis loose on 'em all....problem solved 6 days or less. kinda, kindaMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #58 October 28, 2005 QuoteI say turn the Israelis loose on 'em all.... thank you, but i could live without this job... A leader of a nation that publicly declares that another country should be wiped out of the map has no place in a civilized world. Iran is already the number one sponsor of terror which is a huge threat to Israel, the Palestinian Authority and the stability of the region. such a country, which is (together with syria) the hand behind all terror that prevents real peace talks, with nukes, is nothing less than scary... and not only to Israel. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #59 October 28, 2005 QuoteA leader of a nation that publicly declares that another country should be wiped out of the map has no place in a civilized world. A leader of a country who orders an operation that leads to the murder of what was it 9-15 children and calls that a success has no place in a civilized world either. QuoteIran is already the number one sponsor of terror which is a huge threat to Israel, the Palestinian Authority and the stability of the region. Hamas and the suicide bombers is the only force who fight and retaliate Israel’s murders. I know it has become convenient to call any force fighting against the US and Israel terrorist but that is not always the case. There is a lot of support for Hamas and Palestinians I think that support should increase. I wish Palestine had a full army then I bet the Israelis would not march in and do what ever they wish whenever they choose. Quotesuch a country, which is (together with syria) the hand behind all terror that prevents real peace talks, with nukes, is nothing less than scary... and not only to Israel. Do you remember how the peace was broken last time?????? It was the Israelis who decided to drive their tanks in to Palestinian territory. I don’t see how you can say they want peace when all they do is kill.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #60 October 28, 2005 QuoteA leader of a country who orders an operation that leads to the murder of what was it 9-15 children and calls that a success has no place in a civilized world either. you can argue with the legimacy or even morality of a strike where civilians get hurt because the terrorists hide among them but you can not compare it to a terror attack in which the civilians are the actual targets, big difference. QuoteHamas and the suicide bombers is the only force who fight and retaliate Israel’s murders ok then, you support these actions? QuoteI wish Palestine had a full army me too. if the terrorists would have clear markings such as uniform and military bases (not in civilians areas), it would have been normal war in which war rules apply. they can't use civilians as shields and claim to be protected by the rules of war. and btw, they do have an army, and at least in gaza it is intact. the PA simply doesn't use its own forces to take care of the terrorists, so Israel has to. QuoteDo you remember how the peace was broken last time?????? what does this statement have to do with what i said about the Iran sponsering Hamas, Jihad and Hizbollah? QuoteIt was the Israelis who decided to drive their tanks in to Palestinian territory. i'm not sure which "peace" you're talking about, but if you mean the "second intifada" started at 2000, it was Arafat who sent back to viloence after he didn't get everything i wanted to in camp david. and that fact is well accepted all over the world. and you know very well that the israeli military operation in the west bank was the result of this outbreak of terror and not the cause of it. this thread is about Iran and its current crazy leader, not about the Iranian people. and i'm sure that with less outside support to terrorism, the PA (which i do believe wants peace) would be able to control the palestinians better). i'm sure you feel Iran's sponsership for Hamas is helping the Palestinian cause. i think it will only lead them to doom. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #61 October 29, 2005 QuoteHamas and the suicide bombers is the only force who fight and retaliate Israel’s murders. I know it has become convenient to call any force fighting against the US and Israel terrorist but that is not always the case. There is a lot of support for Hamas and Palestinians I think that support should increase. regardless of the origins of the Israeli/Palestinian problem, this is difficult for outsiders to accept/understand. In most of the rest of the world, anyone who straps bombs to his chest & tries to blow himself & others up would be considered an absolute looney. An organization who encourages/glorifies people who do this is evil or insane or both. Regardless of the injustices suffered by the Palestinian people, this is how large portions of the world view suicide bombers & the organizations who support them. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #62 October 29, 2005 QuoteIt seems odd to me that the religious right is nowhere within your field of view or are you just blind to them. What is even more interesting is when you listen to the myriad of religeous channels down here on Cable. Even though they are in control of the country and they are trying to control almost every aspect of life you still hear them yacking on and on about being persecuted.. all the while.. as always persecuting in so many ways those who do not beleive as they do. Most are not really christian but just plain control freaks. Our president latched onto them as his "BASE" but he has flimflammed them. I think the addage goes watch the actions of the christians and you see very little of what Christ actually taught. " You will know them by thier deeds". Things like judge not lest ye be judged... just go right over thier heads. Turning the other cheek is certainly not a biggie with them. For a "christian" country we are constantly at war with those who do not believe or follow what we believe to be right. This group of people in the administration.. never saw a war they did not like.. for the last 30 years its been one after the other.. but MOST of them have never actually been even close to putting thier own asses in harms way. Its far better to send others off to break the commandments in their name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #63 October 29, 2005 You've hit upon an interesting point... <> It's really difficult for us in the civilised() west to understand the motives and thought processes of your average (if there is such a thing) suicide bomber..... For a start, if you've got nothing, then you've got nothing to loose.... on the other hand if you firmly believe that you are in the Right, then you could easily give up you life to support your friends, family, country, faith etc (we've seen people give up their lives for others in the west). I'm not supporting these people,... I'm not from there, lived their lifes, experienced their problems.... How could I even start to understand? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #64 October 29, 2005 problem is, these suicide bombers ain't doin shit for the Palestinian cause. They're actually setting it back. In general, I have no respect for suicides. I don't believe it is courageous to blow yourself up. You just push a button & its all over. No more worries, no more uncertainties, no more trying. Someone who is truly courageous would endure the long hard slog of life & work for a future no matter what it takes. Living is a lot more difficult (& more courageous) than just killing yourself. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #65 October 30, 2005 QuoteIt's really difficult for us in the civilised() west to understand the motives and thought processes of your average (if there is such a thing) suicide bomber Its simple really ... its little head thinking for the big head... how many vigins are the mullahs promising these fucktards when they get to heaven??? Wanna bet that in "heaven" sexuality is not high on the dieties list of things for the faithful;?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SudsyFist 0 #66 October 30, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's really difficult for us in the civilised() west to understand the motives and thought processes of your average (if there is such a thing) suicide bomber Its simple really ... its little head thinking for the big head... how many vigins are the mullahs promising these fucktards when they get to heaven??? Wanna bet that in "heaven" sexuality is not high on the dieties list of things for the faithful;?? Why does it seem that many assume that the virgins thing is really a motivating factor for their actions? Considering the fundamentalism which spurns their extremist actions to begin with, I thought it was just a joke... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #67 October 30, 2005 Quote Why does it seem that many assume that the virgins thing is really a motivating factor for their actions? Considering the fundamentalism which spurns their extremist actions to begin with, I thought it was just a joke... I kinda like this explanation http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38673 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #68 October 30, 2005 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #69 October 30, 2005 How could I even start to understand? None of us will ever know i guess, unless we were born there, yet then it would be unlikely we would understand the west's perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
