Protecting the Presidential Seal. No Joke.

[Darius11 12]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/24/business/24onion.html

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KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: October 24, 2005
You might have thought that the White House had enough on its plate late last month, what with its search for a new Supreme Court nominee, the continuing war in Iraq and the C.I.A. leak investigation. But it found time to add another item to its agenda - stopping The Onion, the satirical newspaper, from using the presidential seal.

The newspaper regularly produces a parody of President Bush's weekly radio address on its Web site (www.theonion.com/content/node/40121), where it has a picture of President Bush and the official insignia.

"It has come to my attention that The Onion is using the presidential seal on its Web site," Grant M. Dixton, associate counsel to the president, wrote to The Onion on Sept. 28. (At the time, Mr. Dixton's office was also helping Mr. Bush find a Supreme Court nominee; days later his boss, Harriet E. Miers, was nominated.)

Citing the United States Code, Mr. Dixton wrote that the seal "is not to be used in connection with commercial ventures or products in any way that suggests presidential support or endorsement." Exceptions may be made, he noted, but The Onion had never applied for such an exception.

The Onion was amused. "I'm surprised the president deems it wise to spend taxpayer money for his lawyer to write letters to The Onion," Scott Dikkers, editor in chief, wrote to Mr. Dixton. He suggested the money be used instead for tax breaks for satirists.

More formally, The Onion's lawyers responded that the paper's readers - it prints about 500,000 copies weekly, and three million people read it online - are well aware that The Onion is a joke.

"It is inconceivable that anyone would think that, by using the seal, The Onion intends to 'convey... sponsorship or approval' by the president," wrote Rochelle H. Klaskin, the paper's lawyer, who went on to note that a headline in the current issue made the point: "Bush to Appoint Someone to Be in Charge of Country."

Moreover, she wrote, The Onion and its Web site are free, so the seal is not being used for commercial purposes. That said, The Onion asked that its letter be considered a formal application to use the seal.

No answer yet. But Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said that "you can't pick and choose where you want to enforce the rules surrounding the use of official government insignia, whether it's for humor or fraud."

O.K. But just between us, Mr. Duffy, how did they find out about it?

"Despite the seriousness of the Bush White House, more than one Bush staffer reads The Onion and enjoys it thoroughly," he said. "We do have a sense of humor, believe it or not."

KATHARINE Q. SEELY

This is just funny.
This administration gets dumber and dumber. Maybe the goal is to be the dumbest.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Mike111 0]

what does "the president seal" mean?

is it like a legal thing?

[Darius11 12]

there talking about this.


http://clinton4.nara.gov/media/gif/seal-presidential-color.gif

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Mike111 0]

Ahh right, Thanks.

[quade 4]

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Maybe the goal is to be the dumbest.

"Mission Accomplished"

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Why do you think this is dumb??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,118]

>Why do you think this is dumb??

Because satirical and parody use of copyrighted material is protected under the First Amendment. For the White House to take their own stance seriously, they would have to a) be completely unaware of copyright law or b) think the Onion is a serious paper. Either one qualifies as dumb.

[rushmc 23]

I know what the Onion is. I like to read it too. But being a paper of that type lets you pilfer the seal?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Kris 0]

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I know what the Onion is. I like to read it too. But being a paper of that type lets you pilfer the seal?

Yes, it does let them do precisely that.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[rushmc 23]

....If you say so.......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I know what the Onion is. I like to read it too. But being a paper of that type lets you pilfer the seal?

Pilfer? They are not stealing it and claiming it their own.

Satire is a joke. Jokes are allowed.

the whole thing is silly.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rushmc 23]

....OK, OK, if you say so. I only asked a question........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GTAVercetti 0]

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....OK, OK, if you say so. I only asked a question........

And all I did was answer.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[rushmc 23]

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SpeedRacer 1]

Aren't marine mammals protected??

What's the president doing with this seal anyway? Learning to balance the budget on his nose???

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[councilman24 37]

I once attended a lunch where Bush was speaking. Pre 9/11 education tour. Not because I'm a republican but because I'm on a city council.

BTW I wish he'd learn that the end of a line on the teleprompter is not necessarily the end of a sentence.

Anyway, the lieutenant governor spoke, the university president spoke, and at least one other. Then just before the president was introduced a guy in a suit (looks a lot like one of the USSS guys) comes out and puts the seal on front of the podium, steps back and adjusts it for level. Then, no more than a minute after Bush leaves the stage the guy comes out and takes the seal off.

I want that JOB!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[LouDiamond 1]

You may think it is stupid but the fact of the matter is that there are several codes that deal specifically with the OFFICE of the President of the United States and they are taken VERY seriously. Emphasis is on the word Office, and not the current administration, regardless of the party affiliation. If you haven't figured it out yet, there are several instances where matters of the President of the United States over ride other's Constitutional rights. Be it asking the official Seal not be used or closing down an entire airport so he can have his hair cut, the President has that Authority.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[kallend 2,148]

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You may think it is stupid but the fact of the matter is that there are several codes that deal specifically with the OFFICE of the President of the United States and they are taken VERY seriously. Emphasis is on the word Office, and not the current administration, regardless of the party affiliation. If you haven't figured it out yet, there are several instances where matters of the President of the United States over ride other's Constitutional rights. Be it asking the official Seal not be used or closing down an entire airport so he can have his hair cut, the President has that Authority.

Rather like a King.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AndyMan 7]

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Because satirical and parody use of copyrighted material is protected under the First Amendment.

It's more than a copyright issue. The seal is protected by its own law (execuive order), and there is (so far), no first amendment exemtion like Fair Use. See here: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:V4xgaCmjCzoJ:www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000713----000-notes.html+president+seal+code&hl=en&client=firefox-a

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Guest]

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>Why do you think this is dumb??

Because satirical and parody use of copyrighted material is protected under the First Amendment. For the White House to take their own stance seriously, they would have to a) be completely unaware of copyright law or b) think the Onion is a serious paper. Either one qualifies as dumb.

You making a valid point, but AFAIK, US seals and insignia are in the public domain with respect to copyright law; i.e., they aren't Registered Trademarks (TM). They aren't really intellectual property, but IIRC, they fall under sovereign property; that is, they belong to the government itself, and by default, that means all of us.

I don't think there are any restrictions on using them (read - Fair Use). However, misusing or misrepresenting them (e.g., military insignia, or symbology that represents identification [such as an FBI badge], or the seal or insignia of a branch of government) is unlawful.

Yes, this is just plain dumb. It's disheartening that the Mandarins are so petty, spiteful, and humorless about life, the universe and everything that they're getting exercised about a PARODY.

I hope The Onion's circulation goes through the roof.

mh

Edit to add: I'm showing my ignorance of the law. My remark about "Sovereign Property" is in error (see above)

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Because satirical and parody use of copyrighted material is protected under the First Amendment.

It's more than a copyright issue. The seal is protected by its own law (execuive order), and there is (so far), no first amendment exemtion like Fair Use. See here: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:V4xgaCmjCzoJ:www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000713----000-notes.html+president+seal+code&hl=en&client=firefox-a

_Am

Well, I guess that sums it up. I guess they should remove it. But the reason given for why it should not be was VERY poor. Why not just site the executive order.

i sitll think it is silly.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[AndyMan 7]

Of course its silly.

What made me laugh most was when the NYT pointed out: "(At the time, Mr. Dixton's office was also helping Mr. Bush find a Supreme Court nominee; days later his boss, Harriet E. Miers, was nominated.) ". It really does make you wonder about what goes on in the White House legal office.

The only reason the executive order doesn't have a "fair use" equivalent is that nobody has fought for one in court, I'd imagine. I would think that if some media organization wanted to challenge a suit, they'd win. Along that vien, allow me to predict that if The Onion does challenge a suit in court, the White House would grant an exemption to avoid the ramifications of losing.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Kris 0]

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It's more than a copyright issue. The seal is protected by its own law (execuive order), and there is (so far), no first amendment exemtion like Fair Use. See here: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:V4xgaCmjCzoJ:www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000713----000-notes.html+president+seal+code&hl=en&client=firefox-a

Thanks for the info, Andy. I wasn't aware of that.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[dropoutdave 0]

Conservatives and satire, they were never going to get it.

------------------------------------------------------
May Contain Nut traces......

[billvon 3,118]

>Well, I guess that sums it up. I guess they should remove it.

Amazing, though, that the entire cast and crew of "West Wing" isn't in jail yet! They start the show with a fake presidential seal.