ReBirth 0 #26 October 25, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'll put it another way. Yes, Bill Clinton was wrong to commit perjury. Will you guys admit that Rove and Libby, if guilty of exposing the name of a CIA operative were wrong? May I direct you to post #10, 2nd paragraph. It's already been done. May I direct you to whom I was replying? I don't include you in the "you guys" category who would follow a party line over the cliff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #27 October 25, 2005 >In her comments on Meet the Press, Hutchison said any indictment > in the case should be “an indictment on a crime and not some > perjury technicality . . . . Another quote from her: "I do not hold the view of our Constitution that there must be an actual, indictable crime in order for an act of a public officer to be impeachable. It is clear to this Senator that there are, indeed, circumstances, short of a felony criminal offense, that would justify the removal of a public officer from office, including the President of the United States. Manifest injury to the Office of the President, to our Nation and to the American people and gross abuse of trust and of public office clearly can reach the level of intensity that would justify the impeachment and removal of a leader." I hope her legs are in good shape, because there's a lot of backpedaling to be done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #28 October 25, 2005 >Funny how all the conservative pundits have been saying that if >Fitzgerald starts charging people with perjury, that will demonstrate >the weakness of his case. A few more quotes from conservatives: "There is no serious question that perjury and obstruction of justice are high crimes and misdemeanors...Indeed, our own Senate precedent establishes that perjury is a high crime and misdemeanor...The crimes of perjury and obstruction of justice are public crimes threatening the administration of justice." - Frist, 2/12/99 "There can be no doubt that perjurious, false, and misleading statements made under oath in federal court proceedings are indeed impeachable offenses...John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States, said `there is no crime more extensively pernicious to society' than perjury, precisely because it `discolors and poisons the streams of justice.'" - Senator Kyle, 2/12/99 "Obstruction of justice and perjury strike at the very heart of our system of justice...Perjury is also a very serious crime...The judiciary is designed to be a mechanism for finding the truth-so that justice can be done. Perjury perverts the judiciary, turning it into a mechanism that accepts lies-so that injustice may prevail." - Senator DeWine, 2/12/99 "Nobody else in a position of trust, not a CEO, not a labor union leader, not a principal of a school could do half of what the president has done and stay in office. I mean, who would have said a year ago that a president could perjure himself and obstruct justice and tamper with witnesses... and stay in office." - Senator Talent, 12/19/98 "I am completely and utterly perplexed by those who argue that perjury and obstruction of justice are not high crimes and misdemeanors...Perjury and obstruction hammer away at the twin pillars of our legal system: truth and justice." - Senator McConnell, 2/12/99 "As constitutional scholar Charles Cooper said, `The crimes of perjury and obstruction of justice, like the crimes of treason and bribery, are quintessentially offenses against our system of government, visiting injury immediately on society itself.'" - Senator Voinovich, 2/12/99 "There is no question in my mind that perjury and obstruction of justice are the kind of public crimes that the Founders had in mind, and the House managers have demonstrated these crimes were committed by the president. As for the excuses being desperately sought by some to allow President Clinton to escape accountability, it seems to me that creating such loopholes would require tearing holes in the Constitution-something that cannot be justified to protect this president, or any president." - Senator Craig, 2/12/99 "Perjury and obstruction of justice are crimes against the state. Perjury goes directly against the truth-finding function of the judicial branch of government." - Senator Brownback, 2/12/99 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #29 October 25, 2005 Deafening silence from the right.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #30 October 25, 2005 We're trying the liberal approach... we're going to censure and investigate for, oh...maybe 12 years or so. After all, we have to make sure we have all the information, right? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #31 October 25, 2005 Well...here's some more info for you......ruh roe reorge. Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff first learned about the CIA officer at the center of a leak investigation in a conversation with Cheney weeks before her identity became public in July 2003, The New York Times reported on Monday. Notes of the conversation between chief of staff Lewis Libby and Cheney on June 12, 2003, put a spotlight on the vice president's possible role in the leak. The account also appears to run counter to Libby's testimony to a federal grand jury that he first learned about the CIA officer, Valerie Plame, from reporters. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051025/ts_nm/bush_leak_cheney_dc Hmmm...no nothing wrong with this... "Cheney's office began looking into Wilson's background in May or June of 2003, after details of his mission began to appear in the press but well before he came out publicly in July 2003 with his criticisms" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 October 25, 2005 QuoteI'll put it another way. Yes, Bill Clinton was wrong to commit perjury. Will you guys admit that Rove and Libby, if guilty of exposing the name of a CIA operative were wrong? Funny how the lefties will now admit Clinton was wrong to commit perjury so they won't sound hypocrital in condemning Bush. I will be one of the first to say that if Rove and Libby are convicted, not only were they wrong, but they deserve whatever consequences a jury mets out. If they aren't found guilty, will you accept the verdict? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #33 October 26, 2005 >If they aren't found guilty, will you accept the verdict? The number of lefties who can't admit that Clinton did anything wrong is topped only by the number of righties who still can't accept that his impeachement failed. The congress of the US determined that he was not guilty of the high crimes or misdemeanors that would require his removal from office; can you accept that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #34 October 26, 2005 Quote>If they aren't found guilty, will you accept the verdict? The number of lefties who can't admit that Clinton did anything wrong is topped only by the number of righties who still can't accept that his impeachement failed. The congress of the US determined that he was not guilty of the high crimes or misdemeanors that would require his removal from office; can you accept that? Sure, as long as you can remember why he lost his law license. I disagree with your statement that righties can't accept his impeachment failed. You forget he would have been impeached if enough Republicans had voted for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #35 October 26, 2005 He was only impeached because there was a majority republican congress. Which is also the reason Bush or Cheney will never be impeached for outing CIA operatives... taking us to war under false pretenses and outright lying about the reasons we are in Iraq. The world is no longer supporting us because of this hypocrisy... and what little help we had in winning this "war on terror" has evaporated making it a long and very costly endeavor to this generation of young people and probably the next 2 generations as well. But WTF it makes for very good jingoism from the Ultra Right Hand boys and thier fellow travlers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #36 October 26, 2005 QuoteFunny how the lefties will now admit Clinton was wrong to commit perjury so they won't sound hypocrital in condemning Bush. Funny how I, and most others have said it all along. Don't blame us if you only hear through partisan ears. QuoteIf they aren't found guilty, will you accept the verdict? Of course. But I still think Bush should shitcan Rove. He was admittedly involved in the outing, and Bush said no one involved would work for him any longer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #37 October 26, 2005 Quote Of course. But I still think Bush should shitcan Rove. He was admittedly involved in the outing, and Bush said no one involved would work for him any longer. But that would mean keeping your word. And we all know that makes for bad politics.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #38 October 26, 2005 QuoteQuote Of course. But I still think Bush should shitcan Rove. He was admittedly involved in the outing, and Bush said no one involved would work for him any longer. But that would mean keeping your word. And we all know that makes for bad politics. I believe that the President said anyone guilty of a crime. Semantics, I know.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #39 October 26, 2005 Semantics, but very important ones. Form the G8 summit. No mention of a crime...only if the US Attorney finds that someone leaked the info. Q: Given recent developments in the CIA leak case, particularly Vice President [Dick] Cheney's discussions with the investigators, do you still stand by what you said several months ago, a suggestion that it might be difficult to identify anybody who leaked the agent's name? BUSH: That's up to -- Q: And, and, do you stand by your pledge to fire anyone found to have done so? BUSH: Yes. And that's up to the U.S. attorney to find the facts. This year, he changes story and raises the bar: " And if someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration,"" Now, it requires a crime. A critical difference. Before it was just whoever leaked it, now it is only if the leak is a crime. If it was not Rove, they probably would have been fired already.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #40 October 26, 2005 >This year, he changes story and raises the bar: >" And if someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my >administration,"" Bill's Prediction (TM) - that will soon be revised to "anyone who is convicted of a serious crime will no longer work in my administration. Note that the Vice President has his own administration." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #41 October 26, 2005 Quote>This year, he changes story and raises the bar: >" And if someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my >administration,"" Bill's Prediction (TM) - that will soon be revised to "anyone who is convicted of a serious crime will no longer work in my administration. Note that the Vice President has his own administration." Gawain's Prophecy (TM) - Bill's Prediction will be wrong based on statement by Rove and Libby that they would resign immediately if indicted so they could fight the charges full time. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #42 October 26, 2005 Didn't Rumsfeld resign after Abu Graib came to light? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #43 October 27, 2005 QuoteDidn't Rumsfeld resign after Abu Graib came to light? I know that would've been a dream come true for you... Rumsfeld tried not once, but twice to resign. The President refused to accept it. Agree or not, it sends a powerful message.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
