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Newbie 0
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The only thing i have an intolerance for is intolerance. I only hate people that hate people etc etc blah blah. Yeah yeah i know how the argument goes, but my kids will not be taught to hate one particular race. I think those that are should not be allowed them in the first place. Why should i be allowed children? Because i won't be preaching them hate, but rather tolerance of other races. Should they tolerate those who preach and spread hate? I don't think so, and i also don't think that's an oxymoron because some people should simply not be tolerated when their actions affect the lives of innocent people around them, be they victims of suicide bombers, or those who endure rascism.
Sounds like you'd like to beat the crap out of violent people?
I'm not a violent person so i'm not sure where that came from - but if you are asking if i think violent people should be slapped on the wrist and not have their personal freedoms curtailed, then no, i don't believe that they should be allowed the same freedoms as others.
"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts
rehmwa 2
QuoteQuoteQuoteFreedom is one thing im all for, but .....
That's the saddest thing I've read in a long time.
But a lot of others have already responded more eloquently to your post than I can.
You think it's sad that if someone abuses their personal freedom they should lose some of that priviledge?
That's an odd statement as they aren't abusing their freedoms, they are just exercising their freedoms in a really stupid and hateful way. It happens all the time.
I was commenting on your some pigs are more equal than other pigs attitude. I guess if you get to decide what is acceptable in the world and what isn't then the world would be a perfect place? Freedom is ok, but only freedom as defined by Newbie's criteria. What next, freedom of speech is ok unless they say things that you disagree with? We have a lot of that today too. It's easy to agree with the concept - it's much harder to support real freedom when you find out it isn't always just what you want. How strong are your convictions when it mean protecting the rights of others you might find despicable? Then turn right around and use your freedoms to make the opposing position known and public.
Well, let's just slap the armbands on right now and start telling people how they have to think (either party will give you a platform depending on your focus). Let me know how that goes.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Newbie 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFreedom is one thing im all for, but .....
That's the saddest thing I've read in a long time.
But a lot of others have already responded more eloquently to your post than I can.
You think it's sad that if someone abuses their personal freedom they should lose some of that priviledge?
That's an odd statement as they aren't abusing their freedoms, they are just exercising their freedoms in a really stupid and hateful way. It happens all the time.
I was commenting on your some pigs are more equal than other pigs attitude. I guess if you get to decide what is acceptable in the world and what isn't then the world would be a perfect place? Freedom is ok, but only freedom as defined by Newbie's criteria. What next, freedom of speech is ok unless they say things that you disagree with? We have a lot of that today too. It's easy to agree with the concept - it's much harder to support real freedom when you find out it isn't always just what you want. How strong are your convictions when it mean protecting the rights of others you might find despicable? Then turn right around and use your freedoms to make the opposing position known and public.
Well, let's just slap the armbands on right now and start telling people how they have to think (either party will give you a platform depending on your focus). Let me know how that goes.
In an ideal world, all pigs are created equal. No one is - or should be - born above others - we should all have the same levels of freedom. I don't think i'm above anyone, all i'm saying is, let's all be free to enjoy life as much as one another - until such a time when my or your or anyone's behaviour as a result of that freedom affects the lives of others in a detrimental way. Teaching your kids to hate other races is consistent with freedom of speech, but likewise consistent with pretty poor parenting. I personally don't think you should be allowed to teach your children to hate, it's detrimental to their development and their lives as a whole, but that's just my take on it, i could of course be totally wrong.
"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts
QuoteYou think it's sad that if someone abuses their personal freedom they should lose some of that priviledge?
You haven't figured out yet that defining abuse of personal freedom equals no freedom.
And your definition was so far off base that it defies a reasonable conversation.
1st Amendment- READ IT. You're allowed to think you're better than other races. Even allowed to say it.
Newbie 0
QuoteQuoteYou think it's sad that if someone abuses their personal freedom they should lose some of that priviledge?
You haven't figured out yet that defining abuse of personal freedom equals no freedom.
And your definition was so far off base that it defies a reasonable conversation.
1st Amendment- READ IT. You're allowed to think you're better than other races. Even allowed to say it.
First off, how does the 1st Amendment apply to the 4+ billion people it doesn't have any relevance to?
Secondly, if you curb peoples personal freedoms is that not stating they do HAVE personal freedom to begin with? Unlike others here, i do not see the correlation between "behave as you want, you are free to do so, come what may to other members of society" and a very "free" way of life for responsible members of society.
"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts
billvon 3,107
>it doesn't have any relevance to?
We invade countries and kill people by the thousands with the (stated) reason of making them 'free' - so it's quite applicable to many people, people who we either want to have those freedoms, or people we will kill giving that freedom to _other_ people.
>Unlike others here, i do not see the correlation between "behave as
> you want, you are free to do so, come what may to other members
> of society" and a very "free" way of life for responsible members of
> society.
The thing you are missing are laws. No one here is saying do whatever you want. It's not OK to kill someone who annoys you. Many people _are_ saying that you are free to do anything that's not illegal. Teach your children to love each other, teach your children they are all going to hell unless they join a cult - up to you. I don't think much of people who tell their children they're going to hell, but I am as free to think that as they are free to do that.
People MUST obey laws. People SHOULD treat their children well, but sometimes they don't. The price of freedom is that some people will sometimes do things you don't like. The good part of that equation, though, is that others cannot stop you from doing legal things that THEY don't like.
ReBirth 0
QuoteFirst off, how does the 1st Amendment apply to the 4+ billion people it doesn't have any relevance to?
Because it is the enumeration of a basic human right. It applies to everyone in the world. Only gov'ts can take that basic right away from you. Ours chooses not to.
QuoteUnlike others here, i do not see the correlation between "behave as you want, you are free to do so, come what may to other members of society" and a very "free" way of life for responsible members of society.
You are free to do whatever you want as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. Hating someone doesn't infringe on their rights. Only way you act on that hatred to discriminate against them, does it come into play. But talking about hating them, teaching your children to hate them, doesn't infringe on their rights.
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Ours chooses not to.The first Amendment of the US Constitution forbids our government from doing so.
That's better, Mr. Cooper.

rehmwa 2
nice position, though, but one which has been used many times before - making decisions "for the good of the stupid people" is the very essense of an aristocracy, we don't want that model (only the fringes of the left and the right really think this is the right thing to do)
so we end up taking the bad to get the good of what freedom is
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
You think it's sad that if someone abuses their personal freedom they should lose some of that priviledge?
"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts
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