tso-d_chris 0 #51 October 16, 2005 QuoteI happen to agree with the image currently being presented On this point we disagree. We no longer project a positive image unto the world, and I feel that is bad for the well being of our nation (USA). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #52 October 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteI happen to agree with the image currently being presented On this point we disagree. We no longer project a positive image unto the world, and I feel that is bad for the well being of our nation (USA). I don't feel our image is negative. I believe it is the fear from others that is warping their perception, especially in Europe and the Middle East. Think about it, fear in the middle east that we'll stay in Iraq (I think we should) because there is fear of what that will do to their society (never mind that it's been in decline for centuries) and their perception of what we are due to their own misinformation. Fear in Europe that we are going to monopolize diplomacy in the region (I think we should) because they are aware of their own failures from Morocco to Iraq, and are incapable of envisioning any other way to do things other than sit, watch and talk about it. It's simply the way they allowed their policies to evolve over the centuries. US independence was a turning point for the British Empire. WWII was a turning point for colonial policies of France, Spain and others. From assertion, to insubstantial in a couple hundred years, and walking away almost overnight in the 1950s and 60s. The results have been untold, and near unchecked corrosive development across Africa to the middle east. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia have suffered significant political and economic pains after French rule in the 50s and 60s. Italy left turmoil in Libya until Qadhafi made his coup in 1969. Egypt did fairly well after gaining independence from the UK after WWII. No need to comment on Israel. Jordan, while an ally of ours, is still a monarchy, even after the UK left them alone. Iraq's history shows no identity to itself. France walked away from Syria. UAE, Oman, Yemen have stronger ties to the UK than the US to this day. Sudan, Chad, Niger, Mali...the list goes on like a bad book.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #53 October 16, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI happen to agree with the image currently being presented On this point we disagree. We no longer project a positive image unto the world, and I feel that is bad for the well being of our nation (USA). I don't feel our image is negative. I believe it is the fear from others that is warping their perception, especially in Europe and the Middle East. Think about it, fear in the middle east that we'll stay in Iraq (I think we should) because there is fear of what that will do to their society (never mind that it's been in decline for centuries) and their perception of what we are due to their own misinformation. Fear in Europe that we are going to monopolize diplomacy in the region (I think we should) because they are aware of their own failures from Morocco to Iraq, and are incapable of envisioning any other way to do things other than sit, watch and talk about it. It's simply the way they allowed their policies to evolve over the centuries. US independence was a turning point for the British Empire. WWII was a turning point for colonial policies of France, Spain and others. From assertion, to insubstantial in a couple hundred years, and walking away almost overnight in the 1950s and 60s. The results have been untold, and near unchecked corrosive development across Africa to the middle east. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia have suffered significant political and economic pains after French rule in the 50s and 60s. Italy left turmoil in Libya until Qadhafi made his coup in 1969. Egypt did fairly well after gaining independence from the UK after WWII. No need to comment on Israel. Jordan, while an ally of ours, is still a monarchy, even after the UK left them alone. Iraq's history shows no identity to itself. France walked away from Syria. UAE, Oman, Yemen have stronger ties to the UK than the US to this day. Sudan, Chad, Niger, Mali...the list goes on like a bad book. Your point of view regarding your own nation is stuck somewhere several decades ago. "Fear the US", holy crap, did you ever hear about Korea f.e.? Why, do you think, is your retarded leader GWB afraid of countries like the Iran? The US fears. Wake up. The world turned a few times since Hitler killed himself and the US raisin bombers dropped Cheddar down to the Berlin citizens. The US are overrated. But, only in their citizens' eyes. Ask the world around you.... dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #54 October 17, 2005 QuoteI don't feel our image is negative. Most non-Americans I know would disagree. About half the Americans I know would also disagree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #55 October 17, 2005 what did y'all think of the jpeg of the father voting in Baghdad? not that it proves anything, I just thought it was a nice picture. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #56 October 17, 2005 Quotewhat did y'all think of the jpeg of the father voting in Baghdad? not that it proves anything, I just thought it was a nice picture It looked as though it could have been taken anywhere in the developed world, even America. People are people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freethefly 6 #57 October 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't feel our image is negative. Most non-Americans I know would disagree. About half the Americans I know would also disagree.*** Americas image has been on a decline since the Korean war and got on a face track during the Vietnam war. I recall several protestes against our battle group back in the early 80's in several ports. What the world seems to fear is that the USA will not stop untill all governments bow down to a New World Order set forth by the Federal Governmet. We are not seen as a shining beacon but more as a war mongering rogue. The world understood the attack on the taliban and supported the attempt. Yet at the same time they watch the military forces pour into Iraq with no cause to do so when the threat was elsewhere. Not only Afghanastan but Iran and, the most vocal, North Korea. The world sees what is appearant. The USA will go after an easier target and hope that the greater danger does not strike again. This is how I see it and from what I gather so does a great number of others."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #58 October 17, 2005 QuoteI don't feel our image is negative. That you don´t feel it doesn´t mean it is not negative. I mean, input from guys like Juanesky is not representative at all of international feeling about the U.S. QuoteI believe it is the fear from others that is warping their perception, especially in Europe and the Middle East. Yeah, i think you got it right this time. What exactly do you think we fear? War, That Bush doesn´t visit Europe anymore. Regarding the middle east, i will concede that some countries fear you guys (warm fuzzy feeling icon here) but only those that has no WMD, and those countries are decreasing in number very fast. Probably that is because Bush has proven that the U.S will not get involved in a war unless it is going to be easy to win, and that exclude countries with WMD. We europeans fear that, that many countries will get WMD just to make sure that you guys do not take the easiest pick and try to take their resources. Countries that may end up misplacing some nukes and... QuoteThink about it, fear in the middle east that we'll stay in Iraq (I think we should) because there is fear of what that will do to their society (never mind that it's been in decline for centuries) and their perception of what we are due to their own misinformation. When will the U.S. war supporters stop making stupid excuses and accept that all the Iraqui population want is to be left alone. QuoteFear in Europe that we are going to monopolize diplomacy in the region Isn´t diplomacy and the U.S an oximoron since the last war the U.S started? Quote (I think we should) because they are aware of their own failures from Morocco to Iraq, Oh yeah, "Mission acomplished", we forgot to say that so it wouldn´t be a failure. Quote and are incapable of envisioning any other way to do things other than sit, watch and talk about it. And after seeing how succesful the U.S is in Iraq, we will sit, watch, and talk about it some more until things become clear or God stops talking to us. Whatever comes first. The rest of your post is way too simplistic to comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Channman 2 #59 October 17, 2005 Gawain, An old Biblical tale states that you should not cast your perils, before those that would simple trample upon them because they see no value in your words or your beliefs. And that is puting it alittle nicer than the scripture puts it. Not everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! But one thing is for sure Gawain, your place shall never be known with cold and timid souls who know nether victory or defeat. Appreciate your service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #60 October 17, 2005 QuoteGawain, An old Biblical tale states that you should not cast your perils, before those that would simple trample upon them because they see no value in your words or your beliefs. And that is puting it alittle nicer than the scripture puts it. Not everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! But one thing is for sure Gawain, your place shall never be known with cold and timid souls who know nether victory or defeat. Appreciate your service. You surely will not find Gawain under Botelline's address but, I am absolutely sure, Gawan will find out how much he's welcome if one day he should come to visit Spain, where the most open minded, friendly and beautiful people live. I know so many of them, not only from Empuriabrava DZ. Go to any city in Spain you like, nearly everybody's talking in English to you. Go to Portugal, they will welcome you at first in French, then in English. Perhaps they need a spell checker from time to time but, there are several others which need it, too. You made bad experiences in Europe? Or on what is your statement based "...not the most pleasant people...."?? In which European country have you been? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #61 October 17, 2005 QuoteNot everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! LMAO Last month I moved from Deland back to Missouri, where I was born and raised. I was able to handle it for about 2 1/2 weeks before the lack of non-Americans drove me back to Florida. I've received nothing but respect from most every international citizens I have encountered in numerous locations of residence. Of course I don't act as though America saved the world, and deserves to be put upon a pedestal, either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AlexCrowley 0 #62 October 17, 2005 Please let the insular xenophobes maintain their nationalistic illusions. They get upset when you point out how flawed their thinking is. For example: If a particular country....for example Umericas (to take a purely hypothetical example) is percieved badly by the majority of the world then it is NOT that the country is actually percieved badly, but that the perception of the perception is warped, giving a negative perception of the perception of the country. In a similar way it is important for Umericas citizens to be fearful of outsiders so as to ensure that the perceptoin of the warped perceptions perception remains focused, as cognitively dissonant information regarding an external societies perception may cause untold damage to the internal persons perception of the warped perception of the international perception of perceptive warpedtitude. Remember, dont try to challenge anyone. They dont like it and it sends them fleeing into kneejerk nationalism...which while funny as hell is probably not what your initial goal was. Think of it like trying to lure out a badger. you have to wave the flag a little before pointing out that everyone else is obviously a corrupt,activist,liberal, socialist godless nationstates who should be on their knees licking the jackboots of Umerica for all the wonderful support they've provided over the decades. Ya know, it's funny. Except for those public figures who are considered entertainment (talk radio hosts, bill oreilly, ann coulture) you really dont see that sort of nationalistic attitude in the real world - not that i'd ever call entertainers the real world. It's stunning how the meme trickles down though. Time to poke the badger with a spoon. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #63 October 17, 2005 QuotePlease let the insular xenophobes maintain their nationalistic illusions. They get upset when you point out how flawed their thinking is. Oh, sorry. My mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Botellines 0 #64 October 17, 2005 QuoteGawain, I am actually botellines, i think you hit the wrong reply button. QuoteAn old Biblical tale states that you should not cast your perils, before those that would simple trample upon them because they see no value in your words or your beliefs. And that is puting it alittle nicer than the scripture puts it. I think that what you actually want to say is that it is not worthy to discuss subjects with people who doesn´t agree with you because they do not agree with you. I mean, how dangerous is that, you may even end up reconsidering old beliefs. QuoteNot everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! It is true that we don´t enjoy the company of AMERICANS when it is you guys who capitalize your nationality. I have a problem when you say you are AMERICAN, but not if you say you are American, or Canadian, or Spanish or Whatever. As a matter of fact, we cannot care less where you come from as long as you are a decent person. If you capitalize your nationality and say things like Europe should be grateful to the US for WW2, the U.S is the most generous country in the world or the only true democracy or the land of the free we are going to laugh at you. QuoteBut one thing is for sure Gawain, your place shall never be known with cold and timid souls who know nether victory or defeat. Appreciate your service. I don´t need to be a hero or be praised by anyone, i have no need to win or to loose or to demonstrate anything. I don´t need to fight battles that don´t need to be fought. My soul is neither timid nor cold. I only want to love the people i care, and take care of the people i love. And pretty much all of us in Europe want the very same thing. The moment that you understand this, you will have a wonderful time in Europe and you will be welcomed in any country you step on. Of that, i promise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #65 October 18, 2005 QuoteYour point of view regarding your own nation is stuck somewhere several decades ago. "Fear the US", holy crap, did you ever hear about Korea f.e.? Why, do you think, is your retarded leader GWB afraid of countries like the Iran? The US fears. Wake up. The world turned a few times since Hitler killed himself and the US raisin bombers dropped Cheddar down to the Berlin citizens. The US are overrated. But, only in their citizens' eyes. Ask the world around you.... I will count up the nature in your reply being due to you not understanding the context of my use of the word "fear". I'm guessing that English isn't your primary language. I am using the word "fear" in the context of political and military will, and the USA's awakening from its own fear in the 90s, to reassert itself in the world again, militarily and politically. I'm not talking about the "shaking-in-the-boots-reaction" type of fear. The US does not fear anyone, Iran, Korea, whomever. I'll admit we'd bleed if we mixed it up with them, but we'd still clean their clocks out. Diplomatically, you can't find two more crooked nations than Iran and Korea. I'll politely not provide an obvious rebuttal on the argument of the fear you're talking about, fear in the eyes, hearts and minds of the leaders in Europe.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #66 October 19, 2005 QuoteI'll politely not provide an obvious rebuttal on the argument of the fear you're talking about, fear in the eyes, hearts and minds of the leaders in Europe. It is the brave man that seeks diplomatic solutions, and the fearful fool that uses violence before diplomatic solutions have been exhausted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ReBirth 0 #67 October 19, 2005 Yep....bravery and bravado are confused often. Usually by those with more of the latter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #68 October 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'll politely not provide an obvious rebuttal on the argument of the fear you're talking about, fear in the eyes, hearts and minds of the leaders in Europe. It is the brave man that seeks diplomatic solutions, and the fearful fool that uses violence before diplomatic solutions have been exhausted. Nice aphorism... so how would the person in the middle be described...the one that uses violence as a last resort, after diplomacy fails?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #69 October 19, 2005 Quoteso how would the person in the middle be described...the one that uses violence as a last resort, after diplomacy fails? How is that in the middle? I phrased it specifically to take that scenario into consideration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #70 October 25, 2005 Constitution passed. And they didn't even need Jeb Bush!http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4374822.stm Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #71 October 25, 2005 That's a good sign. I'm glad the Iraqi court came through earlier in the month too and over-ruled their parliament on the changes they wanted to make to ensure it was harder for this to be rejected The change would have devalued the result - as it is we have a result their new law makers can stand behind. It was a close thing mind - look at the result for Nineveh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #72 October 25, 2005 yep. I hope they can reach some sort of compromise & reconciliation with the Sunni Arabs before the December elections. we need to remember that the US Constitution did not go smoothly either. There was a lot of bickering & re-writes & in the end no one was 100% satisfied with the results. Democracy is about compromise. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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freethefly 6 #57 October 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don't feel our image is negative. Most non-Americans I know would disagree. About half the Americans I know would also disagree.*** Americas image has been on a decline since the Korean war and got on a face track during the Vietnam war. I recall several protestes against our battle group back in the early 80's in several ports. What the world seems to fear is that the USA will not stop untill all governments bow down to a New World Order set forth by the Federal Governmet. We are not seen as a shining beacon but more as a war mongering rogue. The world understood the attack on the taliban and supported the attempt. Yet at the same time they watch the military forces pour into Iraq with no cause to do so when the threat was elsewhere. Not only Afghanastan but Iran and, the most vocal, North Korea. The world sees what is appearant. The USA will go after an easier target and hope that the greater danger does not strike again. This is how I see it and from what I gather so does a great number of others."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #58 October 17, 2005 QuoteI don't feel our image is negative. That you don´t feel it doesn´t mean it is not negative. I mean, input from guys like Juanesky is not representative at all of international feeling about the U.S. QuoteI believe it is the fear from others that is warping their perception, especially in Europe and the Middle East. Yeah, i think you got it right this time. What exactly do you think we fear? War, That Bush doesn´t visit Europe anymore. Regarding the middle east, i will concede that some countries fear you guys (warm fuzzy feeling icon here) but only those that has no WMD, and those countries are decreasing in number very fast. Probably that is because Bush has proven that the U.S will not get involved in a war unless it is going to be easy to win, and that exclude countries with WMD. We europeans fear that, that many countries will get WMD just to make sure that you guys do not take the easiest pick and try to take their resources. Countries that may end up misplacing some nukes and... QuoteThink about it, fear in the middle east that we'll stay in Iraq (I think we should) because there is fear of what that will do to their society (never mind that it's been in decline for centuries) and their perception of what we are due to their own misinformation. When will the U.S. war supporters stop making stupid excuses and accept that all the Iraqui population want is to be left alone. QuoteFear in Europe that we are going to monopolize diplomacy in the region Isn´t diplomacy and the U.S an oximoron since the last war the U.S started? Quote (I think we should) because they are aware of their own failures from Morocco to Iraq, Oh yeah, "Mission acomplished", we forgot to say that so it wouldn´t be a failure. Quote and are incapable of envisioning any other way to do things other than sit, watch and talk about it. And after seeing how succesful the U.S is in Iraq, we will sit, watch, and talk about it some more until things become clear or God stops talking to us. Whatever comes first. The rest of your post is way too simplistic to comment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #59 October 17, 2005 Gawain, An old Biblical tale states that you should not cast your perils, before those that would simple trample upon them because they see no value in your words or your beliefs. And that is puting it alittle nicer than the scripture puts it. Not everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! But one thing is for sure Gawain, your place shall never be known with cold and timid souls who know nether victory or defeat. Appreciate your service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #60 October 17, 2005 QuoteGawain, An old Biblical tale states that you should not cast your perils, before those that would simple trample upon them because they see no value in your words or your beliefs. And that is puting it alittle nicer than the scripture puts it. Not everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! But one thing is for sure Gawain, your place shall never be known with cold and timid souls who know nether victory or defeat. Appreciate your service. You surely will not find Gawain under Botelline's address but, I am absolutely sure, Gawan will find out how much he's welcome if one day he should come to visit Spain, where the most open minded, friendly and beautiful people live. I know so many of them, not only from Empuriabrava DZ. Go to any city in Spain you like, nearly everybody's talking in English to you. Go to Portugal, they will welcome you at first in French, then in English. Perhaps they need a spell checker from time to time but, there are several others which need it, too. You made bad experiences in Europe? Or on what is your statement based "...not the most pleasant people...."?? In which European country have you been? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #61 October 17, 2005 QuoteNot everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! LMAO Last month I moved from Deland back to Missouri, where I was born and raised. I was able to handle it for about 2 1/2 weeks before the lack of non-Americans drove me back to Florida. I've received nothing but respect from most every international citizens I have encountered in numerous locations of residence. Of course I don't act as though America saved the world, and deserves to be put upon a pedestal, either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexCrowley 0 #62 October 17, 2005 Please let the insular xenophobes maintain their nationalistic illusions. They get upset when you point out how flawed their thinking is. For example: If a particular country....for example Umericas (to take a purely hypothetical example) is percieved badly by the majority of the world then it is NOT that the country is actually percieved badly, but that the perception of the perception is warped, giving a negative perception of the perception of the country. In a similar way it is important for Umericas citizens to be fearful of outsiders so as to ensure that the perceptoin of the warped perceptions perception remains focused, as cognitively dissonant information regarding an external societies perception may cause untold damage to the internal persons perception of the warped perception of the international perception of perceptive warpedtitude. Remember, dont try to challenge anyone. They dont like it and it sends them fleeing into kneejerk nationalism...which while funny as hell is probably not what your initial goal was. Think of it like trying to lure out a badger. you have to wave the flag a little before pointing out that everyone else is obviously a corrupt,activist,liberal, socialist godless nationstates who should be on their knees licking the jackboots of Umerica for all the wonderful support they've provided over the decades. Ya know, it's funny. Except for those public figures who are considered entertainment (talk radio hosts, bill oreilly, ann coulture) you really dont see that sort of nationalistic attitude in the real world - not that i'd ever call entertainers the real world. It's stunning how the meme trickles down though. Time to poke the badger with a spoon. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #63 October 17, 2005 QuotePlease let the insular xenophobes maintain their nationalistic illusions. They get upset when you point out how flawed their thinking is. Oh, sorry. My mistake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #64 October 17, 2005 QuoteGawain, I am actually botellines, i think you hit the wrong reply button. QuoteAn old Biblical tale states that you should not cast your perils, before those that would simple trample upon them because they see no value in your words or your beliefs. And that is puting it alittle nicer than the scripture puts it. I think that what you actually want to say is that it is not worthy to discuss subjects with people who doesn´t agree with you because they do not agree with you. I mean, how dangerous is that, you may even end up reconsidering old beliefs. QuoteNot everybody agrees and certainly not our friends in Europe. There not the most pleasant people to hang around when your traveling when they find out your an AMERICAN!! It is true that we don´t enjoy the company of AMERICANS when it is you guys who capitalize your nationality. I have a problem when you say you are AMERICAN, but not if you say you are American, or Canadian, or Spanish or Whatever. As a matter of fact, we cannot care less where you come from as long as you are a decent person. If you capitalize your nationality and say things like Europe should be grateful to the US for WW2, the U.S is the most generous country in the world or the only true democracy or the land of the free we are going to laugh at you. QuoteBut one thing is for sure Gawain, your place shall never be known with cold and timid souls who know nether victory or defeat. Appreciate your service. I don´t need to be a hero or be praised by anyone, i have no need to win or to loose or to demonstrate anything. I don´t need to fight battles that don´t need to be fought. My soul is neither timid nor cold. I only want to love the people i care, and take care of the people i love. And pretty much all of us in Europe want the very same thing. The moment that you understand this, you will have a wonderful time in Europe and you will be welcomed in any country you step on. Of that, i promise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #65 October 18, 2005 QuoteYour point of view regarding your own nation is stuck somewhere several decades ago. "Fear the US", holy crap, did you ever hear about Korea f.e.? Why, do you think, is your retarded leader GWB afraid of countries like the Iran? The US fears. Wake up. The world turned a few times since Hitler killed himself and the US raisin bombers dropped Cheddar down to the Berlin citizens. The US are overrated. But, only in their citizens' eyes. Ask the world around you.... I will count up the nature in your reply being due to you not understanding the context of my use of the word "fear". I'm guessing that English isn't your primary language. I am using the word "fear" in the context of political and military will, and the USA's awakening from its own fear in the 90s, to reassert itself in the world again, militarily and politically. I'm not talking about the "shaking-in-the-boots-reaction" type of fear. The US does not fear anyone, Iran, Korea, whomever. I'll admit we'd bleed if we mixed it up with them, but we'd still clean their clocks out. Diplomatically, you can't find two more crooked nations than Iran and Korea. I'll politely not provide an obvious rebuttal on the argument of the fear you're talking about, fear in the eyes, hearts and minds of the leaders in Europe.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #66 October 19, 2005 QuoteI'll politely not provide an obvious rebuttal on the argument of the fear you're talking about, fear in the eyes, hearts and minds of the leaders in Europe. It is the brave man that seeks diplomatic solutions, and the fearful fool that uses violence before diplomatic solutions have been exhausted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #67 October 19, 2005 Yep....bravery and bravado are confused often. Usually by those with more of the latter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #68 October 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'll politely not provide an obvious rebuttal on the argument of the fear you're talking about, fear in the eyes, hearts and minds of the leaders in Europe. It is the brave man that seeks diplomatic solutions, and the fearful fool that uses violence before diplomatic solutions have been exhausted. Nice aphorism... so how would the person in the middle be described...the one that uses violence as a last resort, after diplomacy fails?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #69 October 19, 2005 Quoteso how would the person in the middle be described...the one that uses violence as a last resort, after diplomacy fails? How is that in the middle? I phrased it specifically to take that scenario into consideration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #70 October 25, 2005 Constitution passed. And they didn't even need Jeb Bush!http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4374822.stm Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #71 October 25, 2005 That's a good sign. I'm glad the Iraqi court came through earlier in the month too and over-ruled their parliament on the changes they wanted to make to ensure it was harder for this to be rejected The change would have devalued the result - as it is we have a result their new law makers can stand behind. It was a close thing mind - look at the result for Nineveh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #72 October 25, 2005 yep. I hope they can reach some sort of compromise & reconciliation with the Sunni Arabs before the December elections. we need to remember that the US Constitution did not go smoothly either. There was a lot of bickering & re-writes & in the end no one was 100% satisfied with the results. Democracy is about compromise. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
