christelsabine 1 #51 October 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteone country having a homicide rate consistently more than double the other represents a significant cultural difference. Weren't you paying attention in the "Bill Bennett" thread? If it wasn't for black crime, the U.S. homicide rate would be cut in half. That means that white Americans commit murder at about the same rate as Canada. Thus, the significant cultural difference is with black Americans. Haha. American humor. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 October 12, 2005 QuoteQuote Returning me to my point - I don't think the typical American is any more prone to fighting than anyone else. If we limit it to fighting, your probably close. If we include killing - you Americans make many countries look like amateurs. Having not killed anyone, or know anyone that has, I'm going to include killing within fighting. If I wanted to kill, I certainly have the means in both size and weapons. But despite your notion otherwise, I don't have the inclination. so are we bloodthirsty killers, or just a country with more violent elements? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #53 October 12, 2005 Quotedifferences... The big one for me is the American tendency to resort to violence to solve problems much sooner than Canadians. Oh-boy are you about to be disappointed... - Canada has a violent crime rate of 946 per 100,000. - The United States has a violent crime rate of 475 per 100,000. Thus, Canada has a 100% higher violent crime rate than the U.S. Sources: - US: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec2.pdf - Canada: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal02.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #54 October 12, 2005 You gotta dig deeper than the overall numbers. Assault is the biggest contributor to the rate and the numbers for Canada include level 3 assault which is defined as: 3. Includes dangerous operation of motor vehicle, boat, vessel or aircraft, dangerous operation of motor vehicle, boat, vessel or aircraft causing bodily harm or death, driving motor vehicle while prohibited and failure to stop or remain. How about finding a source for the USA that includes that...."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #55 October 12, 2005 QuoteQuotedifferences... The big one for me is the American tendency to resort to violence to solve problems much sooner than Canadians. Oh-boy are you about to be disappointed... - Canada has a violent crime rate of 946 per 100,000. - The United States has a violent crime rate of 475 per 100,000. Thus, Canada has a 100% higher violent crime rate than the U.S. Sources: - US: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec2.pdf - Canada: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal02.htm Ahh, JR, trying to cheat a little bit? Having a closer look to each statistic, it looks not equal. Simply, you cannot compare the both of them Or, perhaps, you already deducted the "blacks" (sorry! your definition!) from that statistic as well? Nice try though. Christel dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #56 October 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteone country having a homicide rate consistently more than double the other represents a significant cultural difference. Weren't you paying attention in the "Bill Bennett" thread? If it wasn't for black crime, the U.S. homicide rate would be cut in half. That means that white Americans commit murder at about the same rate as Canada. Thus, the significant cultural difference is with black Americans. Opps - who wasn't paying attention? From an earlier post: --- According to this site the homicide rate is more like quadruple. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_cap --- So cut it half and you still got double "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #57 October 12, 2005 >So cut it half and you still got double . . . I think you missed John's previous posts. He explained that if the US's crime rate is higher, it's because of the blacks. If it's lower, it's because of how law abiding the US is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #58 October 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteone country having a homicide rate consistently more than double the other represents a significant cultural difference. Weren't you paying attention in the "Bill Bennett" thread? If it wasn't for black crime, the U.S. homicide rate would be cut in half. That means that white Americans commit murder at about the same rate as Canada. Thus, the significant cultural difference is with black Americans. So you're saying US culture excludes blacks, who must be treated separately? Fascinating.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #59 October 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotedifferences... The big one for me is the American tendency to resort to violence to solve problems much sooner than Canadians. Oh-boy are you about to be disappointed... - Canada has a violent crime rate of 946 per 100,000. - The United States has a violent crime rate of 475 per 100,000. Thus, Canada has a 100% higher violent crime rate than the U.S. Sources: - US: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec2.pdf - Canada: http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/legal02.htm Ahh, JR, trying to cheat a little bit? Having a closer look to each statistic, it looks not equal. Simply, you cannot compare the both of them Or, perhaps, you already deducted the "blacks" (sorry! your definition!) from that statistic as well? Nice try though. Christel The US's own Department of Justice acknowledges that comparisons between countries is only really valid for homicides, because other crimes have widely different definitions from one nation to another.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #60 October 12, 2005 Hmmm.. let me see. I pointed out that John's stats were wrong in the beginning and that the murder rate is in in the USA is quadruple that of Canada, he figured the rate for murder was only double that of Canada. John asserted that the rate in the USA is inflated by by a factor of 2 because of the "black" element. John also asserted that if you remove the "black" element the murder rate in the USD and Canada are the same. This only works if his original information was correct and the USA rate is only double that of Canada."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #61 October 13, 2005 QuoteThis only works if his original information was correct and the USA rate is only double that of Canada And if there are no blacks in Canada or you regular wear a white hood when you meet with your friends for cross burning parties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #62 October 13, 2005 You'll find that most crime in Canada is commited by white people In Canada we like to say we're culturally diverse but we're really not. 86.6 % of Canadians are white. As for those that commit crime, these are the latest stats I could find. You''ll notice only 6% of the prison population is black. Offenders are Culturally Diverse On any given day in 2002, there were approximately 12,500 (12,492) offenders incarcerated in federal facilities in Canada. As illustrated in Figure 2, offenders are culturally diverse. Excluding the 78 offenders for whom racial information was not available, about three-quarters (71%) of offenders were Caucasian (8,787). A further 12% were First Nations (1,523), 6% were Black (773), 5% were Métis (628), and approximately 1% each were Inuit (92), Asiatic (88), South East Asian (88), and Arab (71). The remaining were other visible minority groups—Other (154), South Asian (50), Chinese (45), Latin American (44), East Indian (27), Hispanic (19), Filipino (19), Korean (4) and Japanese (2)."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #63 October 13, 2005 what's a "first nations"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #64 October 13, 2005 Quotewhat's a "first nations"? Canada's politically correct way to refer to Indians of the North American variety "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReBirth 0 #65 October 13, 2005 QuoteQuotewhat's a "first nations"? Canada's politically correct way to refer to Indians of the North American variety That's what I thought...but that wouldn't that include Inuit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #66 October 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuotewhat's a "first nations"? Canada's politically correct way to refer to Indians of the North American variety That's what I thought...but that wouldn't that include Inuit? That would be politcally incorrect "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #67 October 13, 2005 No. The Indians and Eskimos (to be politically incorrect without prejudice) really dislike each other enough that the bureaucrats in the 'abo trade' find it expedient to separate them. Also we have Metis. These are Indian-French hybrids who were not considered Indians for treaty purposes because without exception their father was a white fur trader. They have become a completely separate genetic and cultural group. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #68 October 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteCanada has a 100% higher violent crime rate than the U.S. You gotta dig deeper than the overall numbers. Assault is the biggest contributor to the rate and the numbers for Canada include level 3 assault which is defined as: 3. Includes dangerous operation of motor vehicle... Okay, so how do we find out what portion of those assaults are "level 3" which don't correspond with U.S. violent crime statistics? The web site I quoted doesn't show such a breakdown. If we could exclude those, then we could compare "violent crime" equally. And that being the case, we still don't know if Canada's violent crime rate is higher or lower than the U.S. Thus, all of those folks who seized upon this anomaly to brand me a liar and a cheat, should be ashamed of yourselves. You made a knee-jerk jump to a conclusion based upon your own pre-conceived notions, without actually knowing the truth. At least I'm digging for facts and providing my references for review, which is more than anyone else here is doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #69 October 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteCanada has a 100% higher violent crime rate than the U.S. You gotta dig deeper than the overall numbers. Assault is the biggest contributor to the rate and the numbers for Canada include level 3 assault which is defined as: 3. Includes dangerous operation of motor vehicle... Okay, so how do we find out what portion of those assaults are "level 3" which don't correspond with U.S. violent crime statistics? The web site I quoted doesn't show such a breakdown. If we could exclude those, then we could compare "violent crime" equally. And that being the case, we still don't know if Canada's violent crime rate is higher or lower than the U.S. Well, well, look at how the credibility of my detractors crumbles with a little research. Here is a sample breakdown of the number of assaults in Canada, per 100,000 population, by level number. Here is another source which states that 77% of assaults are "level 1". So, let's say we rule out all level-2 and level-3 assaults, to get rid of the disputed incidents, and use only level-1 assaults in a comparison. That makes the "violent crime" definitions equal between the U.S. and Canada, and in fact, actually favors Canada somewhat by excluding level-2's. Previously, I showed a violent crime rate for Canada of 946, of which 732 of that was assault. So let's reduce the assault proportion by the amount that constitutes level-2 and level-3 assaults: 77% of 732 = 564. That's 168 less than previously. So we'll reduce the violent crime rate: 946 - 168 = 778. And when when we go back and once again compare Canada's (new) rate of 778 with America's 475, that still shows Canada with a violent crime rate 61% higher than America's. And that's even while generously excluding all of Canada's level-2 and level-3 assaults, which may not match the American definition. The "emperor's" are wearing no clothes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 43 #70 October 13, 2005 From one of your sources http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/pblct/forum/e092/e092a_e.shtml Table 2 (reformated for cause it wouldn't cut and paste well) Victimization Rates for Violent Crimes rate per 100,000 United States (1995) Homicide 8.5 Assault 50 Sexual Assault 15 Robbery 17 Canada (1995) Homicide 2.0 Assault 44 Sexual Assault 18 Robbery 11 --- Perhaps I am reading this wrong but I interpret this show higher rates in the USA for everything except Sexual assault."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #71 October 13, 2005 QuoteSo you're saying US culture excludes blacks, who must be treated separately? Fascinating. I've only heard democrats say that in recent history. ("democrats", not 'liberals by the traditional meaning') ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #72 October 13, 2005 QuoteSo you're saying US culture excludes blacks, who must be treated separately? Fascinating. Does that mean Jazz, blues, rock and roll, disco, gospel, and hip hop are not American music? What's left? C&W? How sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #73 October 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteSo you're saying US culture excludes blacks, who must be treated separately? Fascinating. I've only heard democrats say that in recent history. ("democrats", not 'liberals by the traditional meaning') John Rich is a closet democrat?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #74 October 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCanada has a 100% higher violent crime rate than the U.S. You gotta dig deeper than the overall numbers. Assault is the biggest contributor to the rate and the numbers for Canada include level 3 assault which is defined as: 3. Includes dangerous operation of motor vehicle... Okay, so how do we find out what portion of those assaults are "level 3" which don't correspond with U.S. violent crime statistics? The web site I quoted doesn't show such a breakdown. If we could exclude those, then we could compare "violent crime" equally. And that being the case, we still don't know if Canada's violent crime rate is higher or lower than the U.S. Well, well, look at how the credibility of my detractors crumbles with a little research. Here is a sample breakdown of the number of assaults in Canada, per 100,000 population, by level number. Here is another source which states that 77% of assaults are "level 1". So, let's say we rule out all level-2 and level-3 assaults, to get rid of the disputed incidents, and use only level-1 assaults in a comparison. That makes the "violent crime" definitions equal between the U.S. and Canada, and in fact, actually favors Canada somewhat by excluding level-2's. Previously, I showed a violent crime rate for Canada of 946, of which 732 of that was assault. So let's reduce the assault proportion by the amount that constitutes level-2 and level-3 assaults: 77% of 732 = 564. That's 168 less than previously. So we'll reduce the violent crime rate: 946 - 168 = 778. And when when we go back and once again compare Canada's (new) rate of 778 with America's 475, that still shows Canada with a violent crime rate 61% higher than America's. And that's even while generously excluding all of Canada's level-2 and level-3 assaults, which may not match the American definition. The "emperor's" are wearing no clothes... Once again. The only TRUE way to compare crime across countries is by Murder. Violent crime is different everywhere as is police procedure for ghandling them. But murder is handled just about the same eveywhere. Please stop using stats that don't corrolate well. I hate stat abuse. rhemwa - thanks for remembering the liberal thing. You like me, you really do! Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #75 October 13, 2005 Give it up. John does not care about facts. He continually posts incorrect information about other countries and no matter how often people prove he is wrong he will do it again. I just refer to the stuff he previously has posted about English Australian and Scottish crime rates. Do a search in the forum. I can just repeat what has been posted earlier in regard to cross National crime stats: From US Dept. of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics "Cross-National Studies in Crime and Justice", September 2004 - chapter concerning crime rates in the USA: These results and those summarized earlier regarding changes in police recording practices (see section above “Trends in percent recorded of reported”) raise concerns about the reliability of police statistics for measuring trends in crime rates. Homicide is an exception since there is no reason to think that, over the study period, changes occurred in reporting or recording percentages for homicide.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
