lilchief 1
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I was wondering how long it was going to be before the cops snapped and started this. The human mind can only take so much before it snaps. From the men from Reno 911 "Get ready for your beatdown".
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
QuoteQuotethe law should weigh heavier upon them.
Yet when a professional athlete attacks someone during a game/meet/etc, they only get fined or a penalty - but assault is assault, and the cops should go onto the court/field/rink/etc and arrest them on the spot too. Do you feel the same way about them?
To the original statement - No, the law should weigh equally whatever career you choose. In this case, it's a clear case of assault that would apply if they were cops or if they were hot dog vendors.
No, it's different for the cops. They have the effective (and often legal as well) right to shoot to death the other person in a fight. If you're the other person, your only real option is to take the beating and hope to live. Thus, cops that abuse their power need to be slammed hard.
What professional athletes are you referring to? Football players that step over the line are ejected from the game, fined later. Boxing matches are stopped. But it's fucking stupid to apply criminal charges to a boxer who is there to fight. And about the same to equate that to cops beating down someone and then the reporter who was filming it.
Hockey steps closer to the line, but it has its established history of what's permitted. On rare occasions someone has gone crazy and charges have been considered. Maybe valid, but the line between playing a rough enforcer and committing assualt is pretty fuzzy. Intent is rarely clear. There's no fuzziness in attacking a reporter, is there? Either you do or you don't.
The guy said he had NO alcohol in his system!!! He wasn't drunk, tried to ask a ? and the policeman got side tracked when another officer came up to him and the guy walked away and the cop jumped him. The cops down there need a much deserved break, they are too stressed out and overwhelmed.
Bobbi
Bobbi
A miracle is not defined by an event. A miracle is defined by gratitude.
That is the way the cops have always been, nothing has changed because of the storm. The cops were always jerks.
They beat a retired school techer who does not drink.
New Orleans man denies police officers' allegations
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — A retired elementary teacher who was repeatedly punched in the head by police in an incident caught on videotape said Monday he was not drunk, put up no resistance and was baffled by what happened.
Robert Davis lies handcuffed on the sidewalk after being arrested in the French Quarter of New Orleans Saturday night.
By Mel Evans, AP
Robert Davis said he had returned to New Orleans to check on property his family owns in the storm-ravaged city, and was out looking to buy cigarettes when he was beaten and arrested Saturday night in the French Quarter. (Related video: Beating caught on tape)
Police have alleged that the 64-year-old Davis was publicly intoxicated, a charge he strongly denied as he stood on the street corner where the incident played out Saturday.
"I haven't had a drink in 25 years," Davis said. He had stitches beneath his left eye, a bandage on his left hand and complained of soreness in his back and aches in his left shoulder.
A federal civil rights investigation was begun in the case. Davis is black; the three city police officers seen on the tape are white.
But Davis, his attorney and police spokesman Marlon Defillo all said they do not believe race was an issue.
"He does not see it as a racial thing," said Davis' lawyer, Joseph Bruno.
Officers plead not guilty
Two city officers accused in the beating, and a third officer accused of grabbing and shoving an Associated Press Television News producer who helped document the confrontation, pleaded not guilty Monday to battery charges.
Trial was set at a hearing Monday for Jan. 11. Afterward, officers Lance Schilling, Robert Evangelist and S.M. Smith were released on bond. They left without commenting.
Police Superintendent Warren Riley said any misconduct would be dealt with swiftly. He noted the video showed "a portion of that incident."
"The actions that were observed on this video are certainly unacceptable by this department," Riley said.
Two other officials in the video appeared to be federal officers, according to police. Numerous agencies have sent officers to help with patrols in the aftermath of Katrina.
Stephen Kodak, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said none of its agents had been disciplined. He said the FBI was taking part in the Justice Department's civil rights probe.
Asked about curfew
Davis said he had been walking in the French Quarter and approached a mounted police officer to ask about the curfew in the city when another officer interrupted.
AP
Robert Davis
"This other guy interfered and I said he shouldn't," Davis said. "I started to cross the street and — bam — I got it. ... All I know is this guy attacked me and said, 'I will kick your ass,' and they proceeded to do it."
He said he did not know why the punches were thrown.
The confrontation came as the New Orleans Police Department — long plagued by allegations of brutality and corruption — struggles with the aftermath of Katrina.
The APTN tape shows an officer hitting Davis at least four times in the head outside a bar. Davis twisted and flailed as he was dragged to the ground by several officers. Davis's lawyer said his client did not resist.
"I don't think that when a person is getting beat up there's a whole lot of thought. It's survival. You don't have a whole lot of time to think when you're being pummeled," Bruno said.
Davis was kneed and pushed to the sidewalk with blood streaming down his arm and into the gutter. The officers accused of striking Davis were identified as Schilling and Evangelist.
TV producer roughed up
Mayor Ray Nagin said, "I don't know what the gentleman did, but whatever he did, he didn't deserve what I saw on tape."
During the arrest, another officer, identified as Smith, ordered APTN producer Rich Matthews and a cameraman to stop recording. When Matthews held up his credentials, the officer grabbed the producer, leaned him backward over a car, jabbed him in the stomach and unleashed a profanity-laced tirade.
Police said Davis was booked on public intoxication, resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and public intimidation.
The head of the New Orleans police union said the officers told him they had acted appropriately.
"They feel they were justified in their actions and they were using the amount of force necessary to overcome the situation," Lt. David Benelli told WDSU in New Orleans.
New Orleans man denies police officers' allegations
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — A retired elementary teacher who was repeatedly punched in the head by police in an incident caught on videotape said Monday he was not drunk, put up no resistance and was baffled by what happened.
Robert Davis lies handcuffed on the sidewalk after being arrested in the French Quarter of New Orleans Saturday night.
By Mel Evans, AP
Robert Davis said he had returned to New Orleans to check on property his family owns in the storm-ravaged city, and was out looking to buy cigarettes when he was beaten and arrested Saturday night in the French Quarter. (Related video: Beating caught on tape)
Police have alleged that the 64-year-old Davis was publicly intoxicated, a charge he strongly denied as he stood on the street corner where the incident played out Saturday.
"I haven't had a drink in 25 years," Davis said. He had stitches beneath his left eye, a bandage on his left hand and complained of soreness in his back and aches in his left shoulder.
A federal civil rights investigation was begun in the case. Davis is black; the three city police officers seen on the tape are white.
But Davis, his attorney and police spokesman Marlon Defillo all said they do not believe race was an issue.
"He does not see it as a racial thing," said Davis' lawyer, Joseph Bruno.
Officers plead not guilty
Two city officers accused in the beating, and a third officer accused of grabbing and shoving an Associated Press Television News producer who helped document the confrontation, pleaded not guilty Monday to battery charges.
Trial was set at a hearing Monday for Jan. 11. Afterward, officers Lance Schilling, Robert Evangelist and S.M. Smith were released on bond. They left without commenting.
Police Superintendent Warren Riley said any misconduct would be dealt with swiftly. He noted the video showed "a portion of that incident."
"The actions that were observed on this video are certainly unacceptable by this department," Riley said.
Two other officials in the video appeared to be federal officers, according to police. Numerous agencies have sent officers to help with patrols in the aftermath of Katrina.
Stephen Kodak, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said none of its agents had been disciplined. He said the FBI was taking part in the Justice Department's civil rights probe.
Asked about curfew
Davis said he had been walking in the French Quarter and approached a mounted police officer to ask about the curfew in the city when another officer interrupted.
AP
Robert Davis
"This other guy interfered and I said he shouldn't," Davis said. "I started to cross the street and — bam — I got it. ... All I know is this guy attacked me and said, 'I will kick your ass,' and they proceeded to do it."
He said he did not know why the punches were thrown.
The confrontation came as the New Orleans Police Department — long plagued by allegations of brutality and corruption — struggles with the aftermath of Katrina.
The APTN tape shows an officer hitting Davis at least four times in the head outside a bar. Davis twisted and flailed as he was dragged to the ground by several officers. Davis's lawyer said his client did not resist.
"I don't think that when a person is getting beat up there's a whole lot of thought. It's survival. You don't have a whole lot of time to think when you're being pummeled," Bruno said.
Davis was kneed and pushed to the sidewalk with blood streaming down his arm and into the gutter. The officers accused of striking Davis were identified as Schilling and Evangelist.
TV producer roughed up
Mayor Ray Nagin said, "I don't know what the gentleman did, but whatever he did, he didn't deserve what I saw on tape."
During the arrest, another officer, identified as Smith, ordered APTN producer Rich Matthews and a cameraman to stop recording. When Matthews held up his credentials, the officer grabbed the producer, leaned him backward over a car, jabbed him in the stomach and unleashed a profanity-laced tirade.
Police said Davis was booked on public intoxication, resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and public intimidation.
The head of the New Orleans police union said the officers told him they had acted appropriately.
"They feel they were justified in their actions and they were using the amount of force necessary to overcome the situation," Lt. David Benelli told WDSU in New Orleans.
rehmwa 2
QuoteWhat professional athletes are you referring to? Football players that step over the line are ejected from the game, fined later. Boxing matches are stopped. But it's fucking stupid to apply criminal charges to a boxer who is there to fight. And about the same to equate that to cops beating down someone and then the reporter who was filming it.
This came across abusive even if you didn't intend it, so I'll go to that digression. Examples: baseball players fighting (there is very little physical contact in this sport), that hockey player that blindsided the other guy with a hockey stick to the head (definitely not a part of the sport like checking would be or accidental high sticking), soccor fights (again, checking is different than fistfights). Yeah, boxers fight and that is the contract they are in, so that is obtuse and doesn't apply.
Even so, ejecting from the game and getting fined, is much different than being arrested for assault - which would be warranted in very many cases.
But this is a bad digression to go down.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
NOPD has made a comeback over the years ridding themselves of jerks and even murders. Although the storm brought out the best and worst of what they have now, it showed they still have room for improvement.QuoteThat is the way the cops have always been, nothing has changed because of the storm. The cops were always jerks.
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
Quote
This came across abusive even if you didn't intend it, so I'll go to that digression. Examples: baseball players fighting (there is very little physical contact in this sport), that hockey player that blindsided the other guy with a hockey stick to the head (definitely not a part of the sport like checking would be or accidental high sticking), soccor fights (again, checking is different than fistfights). Yeah, boxers fight and that is the contract they are in, so that is obtuse and doesn't apply.
Even so, ejecting from the game and getting fined, is much different than being arrested for assault - which would be warranted in very many cases.
Offense was intended, so you were welcome to respond.
In the most blatant hockey cases (McSorley, Bertuzzi), the offenders were charged with assault. Convicted too. But at the same time, the courts (both were actually in BC) found that hockey players consented to a general risk of assault much greater than that in the public, covered by both the written and unwritten rules of the game.
Same would apply to other sports. Baseball has always had head hunting and retaliations against the pitchers.
And none of this has anything to do with police brutality. Like I said - it's not a fair fight because the cop can shoot you. In sports, what goes around comes around.
Quote
very true - but punishment must be relative to the crime committed and the potential of it being a repeat. Not relative to the outrage or surprise of the observers - else punishment becomes some weird sort of popularity contest without parity.
I agree that outrage and surprise shouldn't figure into the punishment, but I absolutely believe that wearing a uniform while committing a crime should trigger additional punishment.
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
rehmwa 2
QuoteI agree that outrage and surprise shouldn't figure into the punishment, but I absolutely believe that wearing a uniform while committing a crime should trigger additional punishment.
Nicely put and I agree, but then make the adder a separate law based on expectations of duty, rather than more time for the same offense.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
rehmwa 2
QuoteOffense was intended.
So really, what's the point? You think that'll get a better, more thoughtful response? Or does it just come natural to you to be that way?
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
QuoteQuoteI agree that outrage and surprise shouldn't figure into the punishment, but I absolutely believe that wearing a uniform while committing a crime should trigger additional punishment.
Nicely put and I agree, but then make the adder a separate law based on expectations of duty, rather than more time for the same offense.
And I agree with that (making it a separate law).
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
Quote
So really, what's the point? You think that'll get a better, more thoughtful response? Or does it just come natural to you to be that way?
The point was to squash any comparison of bad sports incidents to police beatings. They don't belong in the same conversation. I'm not sure where you even want to go with it.
My not very humble opinion of course. This is Speaker's.
During a riot in Kosovo, March 18-19 2004 Norwegian, British and Swedish troops (mainly, there wore some other, but they were small in numbers). They held stand in two days almost non-stop to prevent an Albanian crowd of 10000 men with weapons, Molotov cocktail, rocks, 1 grenade and one rifle grenade. While they were hold in, an American convoy consisting of a light infantry company came. They had orders to use the road to access their patrolling area or to conduct a mission (I really can't remember). They were so persistent, specially the company commander. The Swedish company chief had to physically put him up front so that the American company chief could see the crowd him self, even though there were almost 1000 troops standing behind the line with communication, vehicles and a lot of military equipment. One of the soldiers (a machine gunner on a hummer) said to some Norwegians when his hummer passed: "this is the equalizer" and padded his machinegun M60.
My first personal encounter with am police/military police was in Cincinnati before Christmas 2001. I can't tell his rank or job, but he was working with the National Guard MP I believe. They were stationed at an x-ray machine. In front of me was an elderly couple from France. The security woman told him to sit down and wait while his shoes were scanned. He didn't understand because he wasn’t very good at English. She told him twice do sit down when the NGMP rushed from his spot 10ft away stretching out his finger pointing to the chair and really yelling at the man.
Conclusion:
During my time in the army in Norway, I've been presented with both good and bad examples and judgment from American soldiers and officers. What it appears to me is that their capability to see and evaluate the situasjon is drenched in what I prefer to call: "I'm the best and nothing can stop me" mentality. And in total lack of situasjon understanding, even though there are very few examples show it that I can present to you. But during those 3 years, I've been told the same thing from different kind of soldiers and officers.
Enough said about your troops. I really respect them for what they do in Iraq, even tough my opinion of that war is totally different.
What is sad to for me too se is that I've been presented with episodes where cops have shown the same mentality as the some troops abroad. But then again, I may happily say that there are way many more that are good! I had an incident with an American PO in San Francisco recently. He was friendly even when my mom asked him if she could take pictures of him when he was checking a car with his partner. He came afterward and brought out his dog and showed him to us.
If you have read this far I might guess that you are eager to hear what this loony really has to say. Of all the small reports I've heard that said the same during my short military career, there are few that really add up to be concluded "total lack of awareness" by soldiers or PO from the US. BUT!! there are those fuckers who just can't understand some basic human rights and are so totally f.....ed up that they let their frustration go out over someone whom they have full control over. That is a bad violation to human rights and general respect for ordinary people. I'll personally allow physical force on a person if he/she is hard to gain control over. BUT!! When control is established there is no need to do ANYTHING to the person. Even though you have had a hell period and your home has been wrecked etc.. You took on the duty to fulfil a certain role in society. And it is a very critical job to. You can't let this slip away.
IF there would bee no verdict holding the officers responsible for the violation they did, New Orleans will have a Rodney King/ South Central mayhem that is WAY bigger. There have already been racist reports of slow help because it to many black people where help is needed (or it's just another Bush f...-up's). This will spark thing off, and there a lot of people who have had to much stress on them since Katrina hit hard.
If you want to reply to me on this thread or personal, Do it seriously. I won't tolerate any outburst with personal attack on me. Be serious about this subject...
Thanks for your time
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