Bush's speech

[rehmwa 2]

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Ah I knew Clinton would come in there somewhere...( why is it you Ultra Righties always dredge up Mr Blow Job ...Yall really do hate it when someone is getting some action)

I would rather have voted for John McCain...
Or how about Al Gore.....

Say, it's a little known fact that John Kerry served in Vietnam. I bring this up because it's not been well communicated.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Channman 2]

John Kerry was a disgrace to the uniform.

Now that statement should get this thread going.

[masterblaster72 0]

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John Kerry was a disgrace to the uniform.

Whatever swiftboat propaganda you buy into, you can't deny that he served his country and did put himself in the line of fire, while his opponent was snorting lines of coke and drinking himself into oblivion in Houston.

Belittle his service as much as you like. I don't doubt that Mr. Kerry went to war for career reasons, and I don't like him a whole lot more than you do. But he served and did put his ass on the line. I think if you attack one veteran, no matter what political views they represent or what their experiences may have been, you attack them all. Now that's unpatriotic.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Channman 2]

Now that was just plain hurtful, you trying to hurt my feelings.

He served 4 - 4 1/2 months in Nam trying to get 3 bandaids and 3 Purple Hearts to get his ass out of there.

But like I said, it was a statement to get things juiced up on this here thread.

Cheers

[billvon 3,080]

>He served 4 - 4 1/2 months in Nam trying to get 3 bandaids and 3
>Purple Hearts to get his ass out of there.

Yep. Kerry could have avoided the whole sordid mess if he had just taken the GWB approach and never shown up.

[SudsyFist 0]

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since all the Ultra Righties LOVE to bring up whenever anyone mentions how much these people are acting like Germany in the 1930's

Everybody who's aware of Godwin's Law *loves* to bring it up, as it seems that whenever someone has little to stand on, or when they wish to invoke the highest level of fear-uncertainty-and-doubt (FUD) in order to convince people of their way, out spews the Hitler and Nazi and Germany and Hut comparisons. This is regardless of affiliation, membership, or sexual preference.

So, I wouldn't say it's particular to a specific group. After all, when Godwin typed his divinely inspired words (and their invocation proliferated like wildfire), methinks that "Ultra Righties" were a tiny, tiny minority on Usenet.

If you wanna use Hitler to stir up someone's emotions, you're a target for invoking Godwin's Law. Without prejudice.

That being said... what whole conversation?

[masterblaster72 0]

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Now that was just plain hurtful, you trying to hurt my feelings.

LOL sorry Mr. Channman no hurt intended. You can have the last laugh in knowing that you'll get more jumps in during the winter in Texas than I will up here in the Northeast.

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He served 4 - 4 1/2 months in Nam trying to get 3 bandaids and 3 Purple Hearts to get his ass out of there.

So you ate that slop up too. I suppose it would have been more president-worthy and honorable had Mr. Kerry stayed in Boston powdering his nose.

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But like I said, it was a statement to get things juiced up on this here thread.

If anything, I do hope that those swiftboat lies had enough of an effect to prevent Kerry from being nominated again.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[rehmwa 2]

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while his opponent was snorting lines of coke and drinking himself into oblivion in Houston.

Cool, who's the 'opponent' running against Kerry next term? Is it a senante race?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mnealtx 0]

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while his opponent was snorting lines of coke and drinking himself into oblivion in Houston.

Cool, who's the 'opponent' running against Kerry next term? Is it a senante race?

LOL...yeah...so much for his "insult one vet, insult them all" statement, huh?

Besides, I thought Teddy was in Kennebunkport, not Houston?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[masterblaster72 0]

So you're both in denial that your president was a cokehead, or you just don't know?

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LOL...yeah...so much for his "insult one vet, insult them all" statement, huh?

I would love to answer to that one, but I have no idea how that references anything I said, unless you think that your president is a war veteran, which of course, he is not.

So Mr. Neal, why do you think President George W. Bush is a good president?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[rehmwa 2]

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LOL...yeah...so much for his "insult one vet, insult them all" statement, huh?

Besides, I thought Teddy was in Kennebunkport, not Houston?

No, I think he was insulting all politicians, not all vets (everybody can appreciate that). The support of Kerry just means it was more insulting all politicians from the "other" side. Or at least if you want to go down that argument, that would be a clearer way to do it. It doesn't matter, it'll degenerate quickly to an us vs them type of flavor.

Then pull out the Book of Arbitrary Prophesy, passages 17:11 to 17:17 and quote the entire bit about the soft cheese spread heresy upon soda crackers with wine in a box.

That should clear it right up.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Channman 2]

>If anything, I do hope that those swiftboat lies had enough of an effect to prevent Kerry from being nominated again.

"HERE, HERE"

A side note, that there fella with the gun? Might inform him that he could get in quite abit of trouble in New York owning one of them things, or is it just New York City?

[masterblaster72 0]

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A side note, that there fella with the gun? Might inform him that he could get in quite abit of trouble in New York owning one of them things, or is it just New York City?

Travis Bickle is a vigilante cab driver, so he doesn't have much regard for NYC's gun laws. I myself am not too familiar with guns or gun laws, but I know in NYC you can't own a handgun. Not sure about the rest of NY state. We seem to be doing fine without the guns anyhow -- we have one of the lowest violent crime rates of the big cities in the US and in my time living here I've not encountered a situation where I had the remotest need for one.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Amazon 7]

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Belittle his service as much as you like. I don't doubt that Mr. Kerry went to war for career reasons, and I don't like him a whole lot more than you do. But he served and did put his ass on the line. I think if you attack one veteran, no matter what political views they represent or what their experiences may have been, you attack them all. Now that's unpatriotic

I particualrly love how Rove and Company of draft dodgers went after John McCain.. who served with honor even while being a POW. They slandered him.. the vilified him..... Rove and Co have no shame.

[ECoastSurfer 0]

The American people have been "sold-out" by our elected officials. Politics is a money making business for the wealthy, who could care less about the little guys, and will never change despite your aguing........
My time is better spent thinking about my next jump, rather than whos screwing who in Washington.
Blue skies to my fellow jumpers.........

[Gawain 0]

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>He served 4 - 4 1/2 months in Nam trying to get 3 bandaids and 3
>Purple Hearts to get his ass out of there.

Yep. Kerry could have avoided the whole sordid mess if he had just taken the GWB approach and never shown up.

You know that was proven to be bullsh*t, why even bring it up? You didn't actually believe Dan Rather did you?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

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As GQJUMPER puts it, there are brave Men and Women willing to do violence so others can sleep soundly at night.

Its a damn good thing there are people like that... because they sure as hell are not the people in this administration. bunch of fucking chickenhawks.. talk is big but they have NEVER put their asses on the line. Notice also thier kids are not there either. PERIOD

Can you name a time when members of Congress have en masse suited up and gone to war?

Yeah, I couldn't either.... WWI or WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Somalia, Bosnia, or Kosovo....

For both of you, a good number of those in Congress did serve (along with our President, get over it, he served and continues to do so, which is more than many here can say), about 35 vets in the Senate and I don't know how many in the House. I believe over 100 in the Congress over all have children currently in service.

Alas, you'll want to continue to whine about it, so remember to whine about who else didn't serve (or his kids).

In the end, it doesn't matter, one does not need to have served to be a commander. Only two presidents this past century spent more than six years in uniform: Jimmy Carter and Dwight Eisenhower.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Ron 10]

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talk is big but they have NEVER put their asses on the line. Notice also thier kids are not there either. PERIOD

I guess you would FORCE your kids to go against their will?

Cool thing about a free country....You can't make your kids join the service.

So don't blame the parents for their children not serving.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Ah I knew Clinton would come in there somewhere...( why is it you Ultra Righties always dredge up Mr Blow Job ...Yall really do hate it when someone is getting some action)

Well when you guys cry about a guy that did serve, but not in the way YOU approve of, but you only slam him and avoid a guy that DODGED the draft.

Well your hatred is showing.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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No-one had to fabricate reasons

You have proof of that? If so, send it to any Democrat in the Senate. I am sure if you have all this proof he made up stuff they will be glad to impeach him.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,113]

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No-one had to fabricate reasons

You have proof of that? If so, send it to any Democrat in the Senate. I am sure if you have all this proof he made up stuff they will be glad to impeach him.

You are remarkably willing to believe Bush's "bad intel" story, Ron. Is he a relative of yours?

Did you ever read what Powell said about the speech he had to give to the UN about WMDs?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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Well when you guys cry about a guy that did serve, but not in the way YOU approve of, but you only slam him and avoid a guy that DODGED the draft.

Well your hatred is showing.

ACTUALY I would have supported Sen. John McCain... you know the guy who all these ACTUAL DRAFT DODGERS slandered and attacked( gee I wonder why they would attack a decorated veteran.. former POW who served with honor when they did not)

Now back to your Clinton hatred.

Lets see poor boy gets a deferrment to go to school.... rich boy gets appointment to National guard to fly in a type of aircraft deemed obsolete when he started.. so no possible way of going off to war. ( in Vietnam the Guard did NOT go... period.. so it was a good place for the rich boys to run off to while maintaining the appearance of serving.. and Bushie did not even bother to show up.. and had some mediocre performance reports even before that.) Most of the rest of the clowns there in the executive branch did not even bother to do that.

Ok Lets address this issue of Clinton being a DODGER. because he is CERTAINLY NOT a chciken hawk.
http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/CHDB_WJC.html

Way too many reactionaries have asked, "Where's Clinton? Why isn't he in the Chickenhawk Database? He's the most hated man in history, a scumbag and traitor and liar and adulterer, and we hate hate hate hate hate him, so why isn't he in the database? You liberal commie pissants etc. etc. etc."

To which we reply, "Yes, Clinton is a scumbag, but no, he's not a chickenhawk."

Here's why. Read all the way to the end, and you'll even find a place where you can contribute to the CHDB.

What Exactly is a Chickenhawk?

A "chickenhawk" is a very particular creature. The name comes from combining the word "chicken" (coward) with "hawk" (war hawk). To be a chickenhawk, you need to meet three criteria:

A chickenhawk is A) a famous person who B) supports the CURRENT wars but C) never served in the military.

In other words, a hypocrite who advocates sending children to die in a war, but who refused to go themself when given the chance.

Note you have to meet ALL THREE conditions - A, B, and C - to qualify.

Where's Clinton?

Bill Clinton is not a chickenhawk. He is A) famous but B) does NOT support the current wars and C) never served in the military. Yes, Bill Clinton sent troops into dangerous missions. PEACE-keeping missions: hideous muddles started by other people. U.S. intervention in Somalia was a failure. Intervention in Haiti and Bosnia were successes. Not intervening in Rwanda is also a failure.

Furthermore, Clinton isn't a member of the CURRENT administration running the CURRENT wars. This is modern politics, not ancient history. If we did include past presidents, the first chickenhawk on the list would probably be FDR, who presided over WWII without any personal military background (he had polio) but not Harry Truman, who served in the Army in WWI.

If we did delve into ancient history, prominent chickenhawks would include John Wayne - who loved wars but never served - and Ronald Reagan - who also loved wars but also made movies during WWII (uniform notwithstanding). Ditto Sylvester Stallone and Bruce Willis.

Richard Nixon would not be a chickenhawk, because he served in the Navy in WWII, as did JFK. Jimmy Carter served in Navy submarines. General Eisenhower earned his war chops. Lyndon Johnson barely squeezed into WWII. Abraham Lincoln plunged into America's bloodiest war, but (we recently were corrected) served in the Illinois Militia during the Blackhawk War, so is not a chickenhawk.

Famous Chickenhawks and Non-Chickenhawks

Returning to the present with more examples:

George W. Bush is a chickenhawk. He is A) famous and B) supports the war efforts but C) did not really serve in the military. He was shoehorned into the Texas Air National Guard to dodge the draft. He served only three years of a six-year committment, then went AWOL, essentially deserting. Now he's sent thousands of troops overseas to die for Big Oil, which is likely the greatest sin this country has ever produced.

George Bush Sr. is NOT a chickenhawk. He is A) famous and B) supports the war efforts but C) served admirably as a Navy flyer in WWII. George Sr. can advocate for wars, because he fought in one.

Colin Powell is NOT a chickenhawk. He's A) famous and B) supports the current wars but C) fought in Vietnam.

John Kerry is NOT a chickenhawk. Yes, he's A) famous and B) voted for the current wars but C) served his country in Vietnam.

Questions and Answers

Why Are Only Conservatives Listed? It's true, the CHDB is slanted toward reactionaries, but only because they're running the country and started two wars. Trust us, if a Democrat were in office and sending our children overseas to die, we'd squawk. You can too...

How Can I Contribute to the CHDB? Simply identify any prominent politician, newshound, celebrity or other famous person - regardless of their political leanings - who supports the war but did not serve in the military. We'll be glad to list them in our Hall of Shame. Did Hillary Clinton vote for the war but not serve? Ted Kennedy? Joe Lieberman? Do the research and let us know. Send email to editors@nhgazette.com and we'll review the case.

Can I Be a Chickenhawk Too? You sure can! If you never served in the military, but you go around mouthing off, supporting the war, beating the drum, and advocating that we send Democratic kids off to kill Iraqi kids so that Republican kids can become billionaires, you're a junior chickenhawk!


http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/chickenhawk_headquarters/

The Chickhawks in Charge.



'Gee I was pointing out that MOST of the current administration IS DOCUMENTED as a bunch of draft dodgers...I guess critical thinking is not someones strong point.. here is a fairly good list of ALL your HERO's be sure to read all about.. you will read right??? ( maybe not.. its not an approved Ultra Rightie site so it cant be true)

Talk about some ones hatred... someones REAL hatred is seething.. I am thinking someone hasnt gotten laid recently.

I guess there just are not enough of the women down there in Bush Land with the Phyllis Schaffly attitude around for the Ultra Righties.( not that most of them would actually put out because of those fundamental virtues)

[Amazon 7]

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I guess you would FORCE your kids to go against their will?

Cool thing about a free country....You can't make your kids join the service.

So don't blame the parents for their children not serving.

If the children are bought up with an attitude that serving thier country is an honorable valuble thing rather than most of the people in this administration who teach them that only suckers do that.. then this is what you get. VERY few people serving in our military are from our upper classes. In former generations that was not the case. When I was in the military most of those I served with are the disadvantaged poor who go for the benefits offered to get them there.

I would say most of this administrations children will NEVER serve anything other than themselves.. just like thier parents.
Its all about good parenting skills... and most of those folks just aint been raised right so they have no clue how to raise thier own children. You only have to see how the presidents children behave.

[Gawain 0]

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Lets see poor boy gets a deferrment to go to school.... rich boy gets appointment to National guard to fly in a type of aircraft deemed obsolete when he started.. so no possible way of going off to war.

The F-102 Delta Dagger was an active part of US Air Defense Command from 1956 to 1974. Most of the F-102s and F-106s in service were part of ANG units and over 1000 F-102s were made. Hardly obsolete. The F-106 served into the 1990s. Consider the B-52, in service since 1955, it will probably outlast the B-1 and B-2.

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( in Vietnam the Guard did NOT go... period.. so it was a good place for the rich boys to run off to while maintaining the appearance of serving.. and Bushie did not even bother to show up.. and had some mediocre performance reports even before that.) Most of the rest of the clowns there in the executive branch did not even bother to do that.

While active duty units were in Vietnam, it was ANG units that took up the slack to be the readiness to intercept a Soviet attack. You know that the reports of his not showing up were bogus right? Or, did you too believe Dan Rather?

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Returning to the present with more examples:

George W. Bush is a chickenhawk. He is A) famous and B) supports the war efforts but C) did not really serve in the military.

So, you disparage the service of those who are in the National Guard? That's lovely. I'm sure they appreciate the thought. What about those who are in the reserve units? Does their service count too? Or, is it only active duty only that deserve kudos? How about those with the Army's Civil Affairs units, all reserve. How about the two Army SF groups in the National Guard? Pretty warped if you ask me.

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Can I Be a Chickenhawk Too? You sure can! If you never served in the military, but you go around mouthing off, supporting the war, beating the drum, and advocating that we send Democratic kids off to kill Iraqi kids so that Republican kids can become billionaires, you're a junior chickenhawk!

This is surreal. So, in order to be a chickenhawk you have to be a conservative who never served in the military and advocate the war?

How about this: How about you stop holding it against people who do not, or have not served. It's a pissing contest that can spill into the branches itself (i.e. Army and Marine Infantry service is more valorious than others because we're down in the dirt while you get to sleep in clean sheets at night. How many times did you hear that while you were in the Air Force?). I am more grateful for the support of many who have not served than I am for the contempt of a few that have and feel they have self-righteous indignation towards those who are currently in office and disagree to the point that the rageful blather coming out of their mouths is nastier than the very crimes they profess have been committed.

Politics is dirty, and is still in service of the country. The Military is simply a method to carry out a political policy (for those in Congress, etc that support the war but did not serve).

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gravitymaster 0]

First she defines "Chickenhawk as:

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A chickenhawk is A) a famous person who B) supports the CURRENT wars but C) never served in the military.

Then she changes the definition to:

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George W. Bush is a chickenhawk. He is A) famous and B) supports the war efforts but C) did not really serve in the military.

But, hey whats a few slight changes in definitions if it results in a good Bush bash.
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