1969912 0 #1 October 4, 2005 Guns are fun. Years ago in N. CA, a friend and I took a new .22 pistol out to shoot for the first time. We went to a place just oustide of Davis, CA where there was a very long railroad bridge traversing a floodzone known as the Yolo Causeway. The bridge had ~12" dia support posts every 20' or so. We found that if we fired the gun parallel to the supports (with a safe backdrop for the bullet of course), we could hear the echo from the sonic boom created by the bullet as it passed each post. It was a series of sharp cracks only mseconds apart. Sounded pretty GDF cool. God, beer makes for wierd posts. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #2 October 4, 2005 that would have been VERY cool to hear... i love that kind of stuff! guns are great! beer is great! -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #3 October 4, 2005 Quote guns are great! beer is great! Better yet, all at the same time! We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 October 4, 2005 I participate in "high-power rifle" competition. We shoot at rifle ranges where we take turns shooting, then pulling and marking targets. The targets are pulled down behind a protective berm for scoring. So, as you stand there behind the berm with bullets whizzing overhead, you hear the sonic booms. You can even tell when a shot has occured on your particular target, because the pitch of the sound is slightly different from the ones beside you and further away. And when you're doing this at 1,000 yards, sometimes you get silent bullets, because they run out of steam and drop sub-sonic before they get to you. So they just kind of sound like a shot from a gun with a silencer - you just hear a little "pfffttt" as they pass overhead. You advise the shooter of this later so that he can work on his ammo loading to boost the velocity. Bullets get a little unstable when they drop through the sound barrier, and lose some accuracy. And if you're a solider in combat, you can even use this sonic boom to save your life. When a distant gun is fired, it makes a "boom" sound as the cartridge is fired, and that sound travels at about 1,000 feet per second. The bullet's sonic boom, on the other hand, makes a "crack" sound, and the bullet travels at around 2,500' to 3,000' per second. Thus, on the receiving end of the incoming fire, you hear the "crack" first, followed by the "boom". So, you know the direction of the enemy shooter from the sound of the "boom". Then by counting the time interval between the "crack" and the "boom", you can calculate the approximate distance from which the shot was taken. Finally, if you dare, you poke your head up and look for places where the enemy might be hiding in that direction and at that distance. Then you smoke his ass. Fun and useful stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #5 October 4, 2005 Quote Fun and useful stuff. Absolutely cool! I love it when I learn something! We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #6 October 4, 2005 Does the "crack" sound different depending on the size of the bullet? Airplanes always sound like a low boom. Maybe that's because the plane is further away and the pressure wave that passes your ears is "wider" making a lower frequency sound. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,175 #7 October 5, 2005 QuoteDoes the "crack" sound different depending on the size of the bullet? Airplanes always sound like a low boom. Maybe that's because the plane is further away and the pressure wave that passes your ears is "wider" making a lower frequency sound. Airplanes don't always sound the same. There has been a lot of research on diffusing the shock from airplanes by design changes, and apparently Spaceship One has a very distinctive boom signature.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #8 October 5, 2005 Quotethat would have been VERY cool to hear... i love that kind of stuff! guns are great! beer is great! Quote so god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy?"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #9 October 5, 2005 Quote And if you're a solider in combat, you can even use this sonic boom to save your life. When a distant gun is fired, it makes a "boom" sound as the cartridge is fired, and that sound travels at about 1,000 feet per second. The bullet's sonic boom, on the other hand, makes a "crack" sound, and the bullet travels at around 2,500' to 3,000' per second. Thus, on the receiving end of the incoming fire, you hear the "crack" first, followed by the "boom". So, you know the direction of the enemy shooter from the sound of the "boom". Then by counting the time interval between the "crack" and the "boom", you can calculate the approximate distance from which the shot was taken. Finally, if you dare, you poke your head up and look for places where the enemy might be hiding in that direction and at that distance. Then you smoke his ass. Fun and useful stuff. I got some training in this back in 1970. During that time period there was a big problem with enemy snipers in Vietnam. After hearing the crack of the bullet you could count seconds. By figuring distance and direction from your position you could call in a fire mission to blow up the sniper. I know John knows a lot more about this than I, but I don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. Most pistols and sub-machine guns can be modified to accept one. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. It's been a long time since I've had training on this....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #10 October 5, 2005 QuoteQuotethat would have been VERY cool to hear... i love that kind of stuff! guns are great! beer is great! Quote so god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy? maybe you should ask him, not me. why would god disapprove? does god disapprove of the bow? the knife? the hammer? how about wine? spirits? tobacco? are these things in and of themselves immoral? that is what you are insinuating, is it not? these things are just that... things... they are neither morally good or morally bad... it is what you do w/ them... shooting guns safely and drinking beer in moderation (I don't advocate mixing the two), is far from being morally bad, in my opinion... now, getting drunk (impairing one's God-given faculties) is both imprudent and irresponsible, as is shooting unsafely, such as when one is not certain where one's bullet may land... but that is not the issue here, now is it... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #11 October 5, 2005 CCI .22 LR Stinger ammo doesn't go subsonic until ~300 meters, depending on the gun of course. Sounds like the shape/size of the moving body (plane, bullet, person, potato) might then have a big effect on the sound of the boom. Of course, God loves this stuff! edited for typo "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #12 October 5, 2005 Quotewhy would god disapprove? does god disapprove of the bow? the knife? the hammer? how about wine? spirits? tobacco? are these things in and of themselves immoral? that is what you are insinuating, is it not? Guns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #13 October 5, 2005 there is more to guns than just killing... open your mind a little... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jkm2500 0 #14 October 5, 2005 QuoteGuns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason. I am hoping that this is just some sarcasm. However, if its not.....My question for you is: what propaganda sold you on this idea? Where did you learn this?The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #15 October 5, 2005 it's not sarcasm... i've been an avid shooter most of my life... know how many living things I've killed? . . . . . ZERO. NONE. NADA. (and it's not b/c I'm a bad shot) And if I did have to kill something, there WOULD be VERY good reason... if anyone tries to harm my wife (who is handicapped) or my children, they will be stopped... if I need to provide food for my family, well, you get the idea... Target shooting, skeet shooting, etc. is great fun... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #16 October 5, 2005 I have fired may thousands of ammo rounds in my life. The only things I have killed were a few rabbits as a kid (hit 'em just right and they EXPLODE!) and 20 or so pest birds on my acreage. Never liked the idea of killing anything, even killing the rabbits as a kid. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #17 October 5, 2005 Is this where the white cloaks and burning crosses come out of the bag."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #18 October 5, 2005 spoken like someone who doesn't have the first clue... whatever dude, whatever... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #19 October 5, 2005 This is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #20 October 5, 2005 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #21 October 5, 2005 kbordson: Thanks. Looks like an interesting document. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #22 October 5, 2005 QuoteDoes the "crack" sound different depending on the size of the bullet? Not that I've noticed. And there is a lot of .223 and .308, with a small smattering of 6mm and other oddball cartridges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 October 5, 2005 Quoteso god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy? As a matter of fact, Biblical writings support the idea that God wanted people to be well-armed to protect their families and goods. For example: Luke:11:21-22 "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils." Luke:22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." Psalm 149:6 "Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two edged sword in their hand." Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes". Nehemiah 4:14-18 "Be not ye afraid of them... fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses... And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my sevants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 October 5, 2005 QuoteI don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. I think standard .22 ammo is barely supersonic, at about 1200 feet per second (without looking it up). You can buy special "subsonic" .22 ammo for more quiet shooting, which has less powder and less velocity. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. You can't silence the bullet's sonic boom, except by making it subsonic. You can, however, mute the muzzle blast somewhat, which is a separate sound - and that's what silencers work upon. On a .300 magnum, that would be quite a task, but I'm sure it can be toned down somewhat. I first noticed this effect after the assault weapon ban was passed by Clinton and AR-15's started being manufactured without a flash suppressor on the end of the barrel. Those rifles are much louder than the identical gun with a flash suppressor. At first I thought the shooter was using some kind of hopped-up performance ammo. Nope - just a plain barrel end which does nothing to disperse the gases. Back to snipers and the "crack"/"boom" effect. A clever sniper can try and minimize this danger to himself, by positioning himself so that the "boom" of the muzzle blast echoes off things like cliff faces, or buildings. That way, his opponents aren't sure which direction he is in, because they hear multiple "boom" sounds from different directions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #25 October 5, 2005 QuoteThis is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Neat reference. That stuff corresponds with my personal experience. And just by coincidence, I ran across this related item today: Anti-Sniper RobotQuote: "REDOWL features an Acoustic Direction Finding system... emulating human hearing and provides accurate detection and bearing information... these systems enable the robot to accurately detect, locate and identify the origination point of hostile gunfire."The sonic boom article mentioned: A shadowgraph of a 7.62NATO bullet at Mach 2.3. The primary shock wave (Mach cone) forms a nominal 60° angle at this velocity. That reminded me of another neat thing to see at highpower rifle competition. If you set up a spotting scope behind a shooter, you can actually see the "wake" of a bullet as it zips through the air in a curved arc, first rising upward, and then arcing back downward towards the target. With good eyes and concentration, you can tell where the bullet struck, hundreds of yards away, before the target is even scored and marked. What you see is just like the V-shaped wake a boat makes as it moves through the water. But this wake, I have believed, is from the heat of the bullet, giving off heat waves as it passes through the air. Bullets are super-heated from the explosion of the gunpowder, as is the brass cartridge case that is ejected afterwards - they'll burn you! Now I'm wondering if the wake I see is the sonic shock wave rather than heat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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steve1 5 #9 October 5, 2005 Quote And if you're a solider in combat, you can even use this sonic boom to save your life. When a distant gun is fired, it makes a "boom" sound as the cartridge is fired, and that sound travels at about 1,000 feet per second. The bullet's sonic boom, on the other hand, makes a "crack" sound, and the bullet travels at around 2,500' to 3,000' per second. Thus, on the receiving end of the incoming fire, you hear the "crack" first, followed by the "boom". So, you know the direction of the enemy shooter from the sound of the "boom". Then by counting the time interval between the "crack" and the "boom", you can calculate the approximate distance from which the shot was taken. Finally, if you dare, you poke your head up and look for places where the enemy might be hiding in that direction and at that distance. Then you smoke his ass. Fun and useful stuff. I got some training in this back in 1970. During that time period there was a big problem with enemy snipers in Vietnam. After hearing the crack of the bullet you could count seconds. By figuring distance and direction from your position you could call in a fire mission to blow up the sniper. I know John knows a lot more about this than I, but I don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. Most pistols and sub-machine guns can be modified to accept one. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. Correct me if I'm wrong on this. It's been a long time since I've had training on this....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #10 October 5, 2005 QuoteQuotethat would have been VERY cool to hear... i love that kind of stuff! guns are great! beer is great! Quote so god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy? maybe you should ask him, not me. why would god disapprove? does god disapprove of the bow? the knife? the hammer? how about wine? spirits? tobacco? are these things in and of themselves immoral? that is what you are insinuating, is it not? these things are just that... things... they are neither morally good or morally bad... it is what you do w/ them... shooting guns safely and drinking beer in moderation (I don't advocate mixing the two), is far from being morally bad, in my opinion... now, getting drunk (impairing one's God-given faculties) is both imprudent and irresponsible, as is shooting unsafely, such as when one is not certain where one's bullet may land... but that is not the issue here, now is it... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #11 October 5, 2005 CCI .22 LR Stinger ammo doesn't go subsonic until ~300 meters, depending on the gun of course. Sounds like the shape/size of the moving body (plane, bullet, person, potato) might then have a big effect on the sound of the boom. Of course, God loves this stuff! edited for typo "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #12 October 5, 2005 Quotewhy would god disapprove? does god disapprove of the bow? the knife? the hammer? how about wine? spirits? tobacco? are these things in and of themselves immoral? that is what you are insinuating, is it not? Guns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #13 October 5, 2005 there is more to guns than just killing... open your mind a little... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jkm2500 0 #14 October 5, 2005 QuoteGuns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason. I am hoping that this is just some sarcasm. However, if its not.....My question for you is: what propaganda sold you on this idea? Where did you learn this?The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #15 October 5, 2005 it's not sarcasm... i've been an avid shooter most of my life... know how many living things I've killed? . . . . . ZERO. NONE. NADA. (and it's not b/c I'm a bad shot) And if I did have to kill something, there WOULD be VERY good reason... if anyone tries to harm my wife (who is handicapped) or my children, they will be stopped... if I need to provide food for my family, well, you get the idea... Target shooting, skeet shooting, etc. is great fun... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #16 October 5, 2005 I have fired may thousands of ammo rounds in my life. The only things I have killed were a few rabbits as a kid (hit 'em just right and they EXPLODE!) and 20 or so pest birds on my acreage. Never liked the idea of killing anything, even killing the rabbits as a kid. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #17 October 5, 2005 Is this where the white cloaks and burning crosses come out of the bag."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #18 October 5, 2005 spoken like someone who doesn't have the first clue... whatever dude, whatever... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #19 October 5, 2005 This is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #20 October 5, 2005 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #21 October 5, 2005 kbordson: Thanks. Looks like an interesting document. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #22 October 5, 2005 QuoteDoes the "crack" sound different depending on the size of the bullet? Not that I've noticed. And there is a lot of .223 and .308, with a small smattering of 6mm and other oddball cartridges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 October 5, 2005 Quoteso god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy? As a matter of fact, Biblical writings support the idea that God wanted people to be well-armed to protect their families and goods. For example: Luke:11:21-22 "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils." Luke:22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." Psalm 149:6 "Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two edged sword in their hand." Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes". Nehemiah 4:14-18 "Be not ye afraid of them... fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses... And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my sevants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 October 5, 2005 QuoteI don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. I think standard .22 ammo is barely supersonic, at about 1200 feet per second (without looking it up). You can buy special "subsonic" .22 ammo for more quiet shooting, which has less powder and less velocity. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. You can't silence the bullet's sonic boom, except by making it subsonic. You can, however, mute the muzzle blast somewhat, which is a separate sound - and that's what silencers work upon. On a .300 magnum, that would be quite a task, but I'm sure it can be toned down somewhat. I first noticed this effect after the assault weapon ban was passed by Clinton and AR-15's started being manufactured without a flash suppressor on the end of the barrel. Those rifles are much louder than the identical gun with a flash suppressor. At first I thought the shooter was using some kind of hopped-up performance ammo. Nope - just a plain barrel end which does nothing to disperse the gases. Back to snipers and the "crack"/"boom" effect. A clever sniper can try and minimize this danger to himself, by positioning himself so that the "boom" of the muzzle blast echoes off things like cliff faces, or buildings. That way, his opponents aren't sure which direction he is in, because they hear multiple "boom" sounds from different directions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #25 October 5, 2005 QuoteThis is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Neat reference. That stuff corresponds with my personal experience. And just by coincidence, I ran across this related item today: Anti-Sniper RobotQuote: "REDOWL features an Acoustic Direction Finding system... emulating human hearing and provides accurate detection and bearing information... these systems enable the robot to accurately detect, locate and identify the origination point of hostile gunfire."The sonic boom article mentioned: A shadowgraph of a 7.62NATO bullet at Mach 2.3. The primary shock wave (Mach cone) forms a nominal 60° angle at this velocity. That reminded me of another neat thing to see at highpower rifle competition. If you set up a spotting scope behind a shooter, you can actually see the "wake" of a bullet as it zips through the air in a curved arc, first rising upward, and then arcing back downward towards the target. With good eyes and concentration, you can tell where the bullet struck, hundreds of yards away, before the target is even scored and marked. What you see is just like the V-shaped wake a boat makes as it moves through the water. But this wake, I have believed, is from the heat of the bullet, giving off heat waves as it passes through the air. Bullets are super-heated from the explosion of the gunpowder, as is the brass cartridge case that is ejected afterwards - they'll burn you! Now I'm wondering if the wake I see is the sonic shock wave rather than heat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
1969912 0 #11 October 5, 2005 CCI .22 LR Stinger ammo doesn't go subsonic until ~300 meters, depending on the gun of course. Sounds like the shape/size of the moving body (plane, bullet, person, potato) might then have a big effect on the sound of the boom. Of course, God loves this stuff! edited for typo "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #12 October 5, 2005 Quotewhy would god disapprove? does god disapprove of the bow? the knife? the hammer? how about wine? spirits? tobacco? are these things in and of themselves immoral? that is what you are insinuating, is it not? Guns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #13 October 5, 2005 there is more to guns than just killing... open your mind a little... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jkm2500 0 #14 October 5, 2005 QuoteGuns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason. I am hoping that this is just some sarcasm. However, if its not.....My question for you is: what propaganda sold you on this idea? Where did you learn this?The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #15 October 5, 2005 it's not sarcasm... i've been an avid shooter most of my life... know how many living things I've killed? . . . . . ZERO. NONE. NADA. (and it's not b/c I'm a bad shot) And if I did have to kill something, there WOULD be VERY good reason... if anyone tries to harm my wife (who is handicapped) or my children, they will be stopped... if I need to provide food for my family, well, you get the idea... Target shooting, skeet shooting, etc. is great fun... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #16 October 5, 2005 I have fired may thousands of ammo rounds in my life. The only things I have killed were a few rabbits as a kid (hit 'em just right and they EXPLODE!) and 20 or so pest birds on my acreage. Never liked the idea of killing anything, even killing the rabbits as a kid. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #17 October 5, 2005 Is this where the white cloaks and burning crosses come out of the bag."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sinker 0 #18 October 5, 2005 spoken like someone who doesn't have the first clue... whatever dude, whatever... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kbordson 8 #19 October 5, 2005 This is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,132 #20 October 5, 2005 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1969912 0 #21 October 5, 2005 kbordson: Thanks. Looks like an interesting document. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #22 October 5, 2005 QuoteDoes the "crack" sound different depending on the size of the bullet? Not that I've noticed. And there is a lot of .223 and .308, with a small smattering of 6mm and other oddball cartridges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #23 October 5, 2005 Quoteso god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy? As a matter of fact, Biblical writings support the idea that God wanted people to be well-armed to protect their families and goods. For example: Luke:11:21-22 "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils." Luke:22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." Psalm 149:6 "Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two edged sword in their hand." Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes". Nehemiah 4:14-18 "Be not ye afraid of them... fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses... And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my sevants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #24 October 5, 2005 QuoteI don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. I think standard .22 ammo is barely supersonic, at about 1200 feet per second (without looking it up). You can buy special "subsonic" .22 ammo for more quiet shooting, which has less powder and less velocity. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. You can't silence the bullet's sonic boom, except by making it subsonic. You can, however, mute the muzzle blast somewhat, which is a separate sound - and that's what silencers work upon. On a .300 magnum, that would be quite a task, but I'm sure it can be toned down somewhat. I first noticed this effect after the assault weapon ban was passed by Clinton and AR-15's started being manufactured without a flash suppressor on the end of the barrel. Those rifles are much louder than the identical gun with a flash suppressor. At first I thought the shooter was using some kind of hopped-up performance ammo. Nope - just a plain barrel end which does nothing to disperse the gases. Back to snipers and the "crack"/"boom" effect. A clever sniper can try and minimize this danger to himself, by positioning himself so that the "boom" of the muzzle blast echoes off things like cliff faces, or buildings. That way, his opponents aren't sure which direction he is in, because they hear multiple "boom" sounds from different directions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #13 October 5, 2005 there is more to guns than just killing... open your mind a little... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jkm2500 0 #14 October 5, 2005 QuoteGuns are not nessecary. they can be used to supply provisions as needed. but to shoot them for fun? what is gained from this? what is the fun? killing is not nice. unless you have a warped mind. guns are made to kill. I'm sure your god, If true? would not condone unessecary killing or practicing to kill without reason. I am hoping that this is just some sarcasm. However, if its not.....My question for you is: what propaganda sold you on this idea? Where did you learn this?The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #15 October 5, 2005 it's not sarcasm... i've been an avid shooter most of my life... know how many living things I've killed? . . . . . ZERO. NONE. NADA. (and it's not b/c I'm a bad shot) And if I did have to kill something, there WOULD be VERY good reason... if anyone tries to harm my wife (who is handicapped) or my children, they will be stopped... if I need to provide food for my family, well, you get the idea... Target shooting, skeet shooting, etc. is great fun... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #16 October 5, 2005 I have fired may thousands of ammo rounds in my life. The only things I have killed were a few rabbits as a kid (hit 'em just right and they EXPLODE!) and 20 or so pest birds on my acreage. Never liked the idea of killing anything, even killing the rabbits as a kid. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #17 October 5, 2005 Is this where the white cloaks and burning crosses come out of the bag."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #18 October 5, 2005 spoken like someone who doesn't have the first clue... whatever dude, whatever... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #19 October 5, 2005 This is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,132 #20 October 5, 2005 Both of you cut it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #21 October 5, 2005 kbordson: Thanks. Looks like an interesting document. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 October 5, 2005 QuoteDoes the "crack" sound different depending on the size of the bullet? Not that I've noticed. And there is a lot of .223 and .308, with a small smattering of 6mm and other oddball cartridges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 October 5, 2005 Quoteso god aproves of this kind of behavior does he god boy? As a matter of fact, Biblical writings support the idea that God wanted people to be well-armed to protect their families and goods. For example: Luke:11:21-22 "When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils." Luke:22:36 "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Psalm 144:1 "Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight." Psalm 149:6 "Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two edged sword in their hand." Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes". Nehemiah 4:14-18 "Be not ye afraid of them... fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses... And it came to pass from that time forth, that the half of my sevants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #24 October 5, 2005 QuoteI don't believe a 22 pistol round will break the sound barrier. A high powered rifle will. That's why a silencer won't work on any weapon if the bullet is moving too fast. I think standard .22 ammo is barely supersonic, at about 1200 feet per second (without looking it up). You can buy special "subsonic" .22 ammo for more quiet shooting, which has less powder and less velocity. One guy tried to tell me he had a silencer on a 300 magnum. I had to laugh at that one. I don't know a whole lot about silencers but I don't think they will work except on a very slow moving bullet. You can't silence the bullet's sonic boom, except by making it subsonic. You can, however, mute the muzzle blast somewhat, which is a separate sound - and that's what silencers work upon. On a .300 magnum, that would be quite a task, but I'm sure it can be toned down somewhat. I first noticed this effect after the assault weapon ban was passed by Clinton and AR-15's started being manufactured without a flash suppressor on the end of the barrel. Those rifles are much louder than the identical gun with a flash suppressor. At first I thought the shooter was using some kind of hopped-up performance ammo. Nope - just a plain barrel end which does nothing to disperse the gases. Back to snipers and the "crack"/"boom" effect. A clever sniper can try and minimize this danger to himself, by positioning himself so that the "boom" of the muzzle blast echoes off things like cliff faces, or buildings. That way, his opponents aren't sure which direction he is in, because they hear multiple "boom" sounds from different directions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #25 October 5, 2005 QuoteThis is an interesting site with some cool math on this subject http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/soundofbullets/soundofbullets2.htm Neat reference. That stuff corresponds with my personal experience. And just by coincidence, I ran across this related item today: Anti-Sniper RobotQuote: "REDOWL features an Acoustic Direction Finding system... emulating human hearing and provides accurate detection and bearing information... these systems enable the robot to accurately detect, locate and identify the origination point of hostile gunfire."The sonic boom article mentioned: A shadowgraph of a 7.62NATO bullet at Mach 2.3. The primary shock wave (Mach cone) forms a nominal 60° angle at this velocity. That reminded me of another neat thing to see at highpower rifle competition. If you set up a spotting scope behind a shooter, you can actually see the "wake" of a bullet as it zips through the air in a curved arc, first rising upward, and then arcing back downward towards the target. With good eyes and concentration, you can tell where the bullet struck, hundreds of yards away, before the target is even scored and marked. What you see is just like the V-shaped wake a boat makes as it moves through the water. But this wake, I have believed, is from the heat of the bullet, giving off heat waves as it passes through the air. Bullets are super-heated from the explosion of the gunpowder, as is the brass cartridge case that is ejected afterwards - they'll burn you! Now I'm wondering if the wake I see is the sonic shock wave rather than heat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
