Bill Bennett Remarks

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Your best angle to use here is to claim that more blacks are given a worse shot at equality and comit crimes to survive....But to claim that an entire system is after them (Even in a blue state) is not a good argument.

Please explain why blacks are arrested and sent to prison at a far greater rate than whites for drug offenses, in spite of the fact that whites use drugs at a much higher rate than blacks.

Drug laws are the easiest laws to selectively enforce, due to the fact that there are no victims. The police have to "discover" the crimes themselves.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Who would you send to jail:
a) A guy busted for having 3 joints in his car.
b) A guy that was busted for the same three joints, but has a rap sheet?

I wouldn't send anyone to jail for having three (or more) joints, rap sheet or not.

[Ron 10]

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Please explain why blacks are arrested and sent to prison at a far greater rate than whites for drug offenses, in spite of the fact that whites use drugs at a much higher rate than blacks.

Its called "priors" and "Intent to sell" vs. "Personal use"

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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I wouldn't send anyone to jail for having three (or more) joints, rap sheet or not.

Don't avoid the question, answer it. If you had to send one, which one would it be?

Also don't move to a three strike state then.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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Bill Bennett is an arrogant racist.

His comment was in the context of an intellectual debate. He made it clear he wasn't actually advocating that, nor morally support it.

But for the purposes of debate, he was correct. If you elminated blacks from the murder statistics, the U.S. murder rate would immediately drop by 50%.

But I see that plenty of people are unable to separate themselves from their emotions long enough to recognize the validity of an intellectual debating point - racial sensitivities are more important than facts...

Get a rope! Find a tree! Let's hang the bastard!

[SudsyFist 0]

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But I see that plenty of people are unable to separate themselves from their emotions long enough to recognize the validity of an intellectual debating point

"If you wanted to reduce hate crimes against minorities, you could, if that was your sole purpose, you could kill every white baby and child in the South, and your hate crime rate would go down."

How much validity as an intellectual debating point would you give that one?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Don't avoid the question, answer it. If you had to send one, which one would it be?

I'm not avoiding the question. I just don't view the world in such black and white terms.

Ever looked at a black and white photo? It's all gray.

[Darius11 12]

If we abort every American child we would save the world a lot of waist in fuel, food, and even help the world’s climate. Not to mention prevent a few unjustified wars.




(fuck that would mean my kid as well)


Edit to add: that’s only if abortion doesn’t
become illegal.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Its called "priors" and "Intent to sell" vs. "Personal use"

A circular argument.

Its okay to unjustly arrest someone because it has been done before?

Don't get me wrong, I've seen that happen more than twice, but that does not mean that there was justification the first few times.

[Darius11 12]

If we abort every Muslim child then we will have less terrorist and men with huge penises who are great lovers (sorry I had to be a little bias) LOLOLOL

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rehmwa 2]

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If we abort every American child we would save the world a lot of waist

Great, another 'fat American' thread.edit +
(we would also eliminate a lot of waste)


it's called using an absurd argument to highlight the absurdity of the analogy - the point is that the argument is completely unacceptable and that the debater's is coming from a position that the statement is unacceptable. Therefore, Bennett was stating that aborting black babies is unacceptable. This is -exactly-the-opposite- of advocating the position - (which was advocated by a liberal in an economics book - or so I hear, still have to find it.)

Edit: Frankly, listening to the Bill Bennett show is as interesting as watching old people eat. It's likely the cause of many early morning accidents where drivers fall asleep on their commute. I doubt 1% of the posters here even heard the particular show or the total context of the statement - he was refuting a pro-abortion argument as absurd by contrasting it to the absurdity of controlling crime by aborting black babies.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Darius11 12]

Chill dude


"absurd" thats all i wanted to show.
The statement was absurd. I think we got more problems then Bill Bennett.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[rehmwa 2]

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Chill dude


"absurd" thats all i wanted to show.
The statement was absurd. I think we got more problems then Bill Bennett.

???????

{the 'waist' thing was a funny, forgot the . the other stuff wasn't at you, you seemed to actually understand the point by your own examples}

relax

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 10]

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I'm not avoiding the question. I just don't view the world in such black and white terms.

Sure you are avoiding the question. It was quite a simple question. YOU are free to choose not to answer it to prevent proving a point, but don't claim to not be avoiding it when you clearly are.

The simple fact is many of those who you claim were wrong were quite simply guilty of prior offenses.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Sure you are avoiding the question. It was quite a simple question. YOU are free to choose not to answer it to prevent proving a point, but don't claim to not be avoiding it when you clearly are.

The simple fact is many of those who you claim were wrong were quite simply guilty of prior offenses.

I'm not sure how you arrived at those conclusions, but you sure can jump far!

[Ron 10]

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A circular argument.

Its okay to unjustly arrest someone because it has been done before?

Oh no, but to claim that only blacks are wrongly arrested is frankly nuts.

The simplest answer is often the correct one...More blacks are in prison since they commit more crimes and more get caught since they commit more crimes....Therfore more will go to prison.

Now you could claim they had no choice since the "Man" kept them down...But that is also mostly BS and not the subject of this conversation.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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I'm not sure how you arrived at those conclusions, but you sure can jump far!

Sure follow along its easy...

1. I asked an A or B question
2. you answered with a "C".

You gave an explanation, but that does not change the fact I gave two choices and you answered with a third....Thats called avoiding the question.

See how easy it is?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Oh no, but to claim that only blacks are wrongly arrested is frankly nuts.

The simplest answer is often the correct one...More blacks are in prison since they commit more crimes and more get caught since they commit more crimes....Therfore more will go to prison.

Now you could claim they had no choice since the "Man" kept them down...But that is also mostly BS and not the subject of this conversation.

If you want to provide evidence to support your claims, I will continue.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Sure follow along its easy...

1. I asked an A or B question
2. you answered with a "C".

Imagine its pull time on a skydive.
You throw out your main PC. Nothing happens.
Do you

A. Pull out your cell phone and call 911

OR

B. Pull out your cell phone and make funeral arrangements?

[rehmwa 2]

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Sure follow along its easy...

1. I asked an A or B question
2. you answered with a "C".

Imagine its pull time on a skydive.
You throw out your main PC. Nothing happens.
Do you

A. Pull out your cell phone and call 911

OR

B. Pull out your cell phone and make funeral arrangements?

as much as you are dodging the question, that was still funny

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Darius11 12]

Relax don't do it




(ok you can shoot me now)

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[SudsyFist 0]

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The simplest answer is often the correct one...

As a universal statement, that is incorrect, and often leads to a binary (0 or 1) view on things, which is a shame.

The fact is that the nature of the answer depends entirely on the nature of the question. Some questions yield beautifully simple and elegant answers, whereas others have to take into account a number of factors.

Take, for example, incident reports. The simplest answer to the majority of the, "Why did this happen?" questions is, "the jumper fucked up." If that's all we went by, though, we would never learn a damn thing from their mistakes, now would we?

Further, the "simplest answer" may often only crawl up one or two links in a chain of causal events. And if you're looking for effective ways to solve problems, you want to have the most information about their causes as you can get your hands on.

Now, to your "simple answer":

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More blacks are in prison since they commit more crimes

We do not have data on crimes committed; we have data only on crimes reported and what happens with those (arrests, etc.). Consider how many times have you committed a crime (broken any law), compared to how many times you've been caught.

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and more get caught since they commit more crimes

This part is purely speculative, at best. What other factors can you think of that could influence this?

Here's an example: Los Angeles. I can attest from personal experience that there is rampant drug usage in some of LA's most affluent areas. HUGE consumption, so much so I wonder how these people can function, really. Who deals is common knowledge, and there's just a general feeling of invincibility from getting caught. Hell, some of these people go weeks without ever seeing a cop.

A short drive South, from the 101 to the 110, you'll find that things are just a bit different: a unit every few blocks, a constant feeling of paranoia... oh, and a population consisting primarily of impoverished black people.

Why?

Why is it that I'm probably more likely to get caught if I'm selling rock in Compton than if I'm selling blow in Hollywood Hills? Is it because drug use is higher there? Is it because there are more crimes committed [sic] there? Is it a black/white thing? A poor/rich thing? Is it a political thing? Cultural? Appearance? Oppression?

Like I said, some questions do not have simple answers, and I'd call trying to shoehorn a simple answer to such a complex question a complete injustice. In this case, that includes both the, "Cuz the MAN is keeping is down," and the, "Blacks just commit more crimes," types of responses. There's more to it than that, and I think people should open their eyes just a bit more to see exactly that.

[Ron 10]

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If you want to provide evidence to support your claims, I will continue.

Rich already produced such evidence. You are the one refusing to read it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 10]

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Imagine its pull time on a skydive.
You throw out your main PC. Nothing happens.
Do you

A. Pull out your cell phone and call 911

OR

B. Pull out your cell phone and make funeral arrangements?

You are a master of redirect...

But watch how easy this is....

Given the choice between the two, I would call 911.

See I actually answered your question, not avoided it.

An example of an avoidance response would be, "I'd call Pizza Hut and have pizza brought out for all my friends on me."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnRich 4]

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More blacks are in prison since they commit more crimes

We do not have data on crimes committed; we have data only on crimes reported and what happens with those (arrests, etc.). Consider how many times have you committed a crime (broken any law), compared to how many times you've been caught.

So you're saying that black criminals are more stupid than white criminals, causing blacks to be caught and arrested more often.

Crimes reported are a reflection of crimes committed. And I suppose you want to suggest yet another conspiracy, whereby the population does not report white crimes, but does report black crimes...

The lengths to which you guys will go to avoid admitting the truth about black crime, is simply amazing. Sheesh.

And as long as blacks keep sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the truth, nothing will be done about it. "Hi. My name is Bill, and I'm a black criminal..."