New Florida Gun Law. "Shoot First"

juanesky · October 4, 2005

I would advise not to waste your time or effort in trying to educate someone not willing to listen.

I can't help but noticing the quote "Taking away the likely MISUSE OF ALL THOSE LEGAL Firearms", and it really speaks volumes about someone who does not have any training in firearms, never owned one, yet is trying to say that anyone possesing them will ever master any type of security, and knoweldge handling that.

It sounds like a whuffo's view on skydiving.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

popsjumper · October 4, 2005

<>
great avatar!
<>

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

Botellines · October 4, 2005

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It been proven over and over again that it works, and confirmed by interviews with felons - we could "what if" this until the cows come home until you find a set of circumstances that suit your bias.

That is not true, you are much more likely to end up shot in the U.S than in Europe for a robery, so it is not proven at all. But of course if the felons say so, we will have to believe them...

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Again...how is it so much higher? What are you basing your fears on?

I base it on when there is a murder on the road, the crime has been commited almost always with a gun, rarely with a knife, and never with bare hands. I am talking about Spain and just road shot outs.

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Are you saying that if YOU had a weapon, you'd kill someone that was belligerent but NOT a mortal threat?

I am saying that if i had a weapon and i was allowed to shoot to kill on the basis of my perception of what it is a mortal threat, i would be more likely to wrongly kill someone that if the law didn´t back just my perceptions up.

Botellines · October 4, 2005

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I would advise not to waste your time or effort in trying to educate someone not willing to listen.

It is better that instead of giving advises to other posters, you participate in this forum other than just brown nosing people with opposite views of those you dislike.
As i have said many times before, if you don´t have anything interesting to say, silence will make look much wiser than your actual posts.
Thank you

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I can't help but noticing the quote "Taking away the likely MISUSE OF ALL THOSE LEGAL Firearms", and it really speaks volumes about someone who does not have any training in firearms, never owned one, yet is trying to say that anyone possesing them will ever master any type of security, and knoweldge handling that.

It only speaks volumes to someone like you, dude. When speaking about the MISUSE OF ALL THOSE LEGAL FIREARMS words like Columbine and Red Lake comes to my head. I know that NRA told you to forget that but those were real examples of MISUSE OF LEGAL FIREARMS.

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It sounds like a whuffo's view on skydiving.

Pleeeeeaze, so now i have to own a gun to have an opinion about gun laws? it looks to me that you are out of arguments and you resort to attack the poster credibility rather than the post. Very wise...

Edited to remind Juanesky that the victims at Columbine where not insurgents, just in case he tries that lame justification.

christelsabine · October 4, 2005

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Pleeeeeaze, so now i have to own a gun to have an opinion about gun laws? it looks to me that you are out of arguments and you resort to attack the poster credibility rather than the post. Very wise...

David, you really waste your energy and time on posts like the one you just replied to.... You do not need to own a gun to express your opinion! I do own guns. And I received similar answers from poster(s) in former gun threads. So, what does this tell you???

Christel

dudeist skydiver # 3105

juanesky · October 4, 2005

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It is better that instead of giving advises to other posters, you participate in this forum other than just brown nosing people with opposite views of those you dislike.

I have no need to brown nose, but since you are assuming that advicing someone not to waste time is brown nosing, well, there is not much it can be done to enlighten you in a matter you clearly have no clue about.

Your lack of any real education on how to handle any guns at all, gives you zero on expertise on the matter.

If you could have even care to read and find out about Columbine, you will have noted that the guns used were illegaly in the possesion of the perpetrators, as none had any permit that allowed to carry those guns inside the school.

Maybe someday you will get a grasp of the language and understand it.

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As i have said many times before, if you don´t have anything interesting to say, silence will make look much wiser than your actual posts.
Thank you

We differ in many things, many in here will think you should be locked up, and not only silenced, but hey, it's just an opinion, cultures differ, what is rape and abuse in one's culture, it can be glorious delighs or taste of the forbidden to others.

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It only speaks volumes to someone like you, dude. When speaking about the MISUSE OF ALL THOSE LEGAL FIREARMS words like Columbine and Red Lake comes to my head. I know that NRA told you to forget that but those were real examples of MISUSE OF LEGAL FIREARMS.

Refer to the prior comment, as those in the Columbine had no concealed weapon permit, nor given any type of legal permission to use those firearms. Don't let the boring facts get in the way of your science fiction novel

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Pleeeeeaze, so now i have to own a gun to have an opinion about gun laws? it looks to me that you are out of arguments and you resort to attack the poster credibility rather than the post. Very wise...

Edited to remind Juanesky that the victims at Columbine where not insurgents, just in case he tries that lame justification.

Perhaps we should remind you to stick with the facts. I know is hard for you, as you have demonstrated before on many occasions, pretending to give an educated opinion in matters from the US military to world knowledge without much information, but lots of falsely misrepresented "beliefs".

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

kelpdiver · October 4, 2005

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If you could have even care to read and find out about Columbine, you will have noted that the guns used were illegaly in the possesion of the perpetrators, as none had any permit that allowed to carry those guns inside the school.

It's more than that. The 18yo girlfriend purchased at least one of the guns and illegally gave it to the boys.

Botellines - if you want to argue a point to the death, that's fine, but if you're going to insist on using false facts and poor reasoning, it's quite reasonable for the other side to ignore you.

JohnRich · October 4, 2005

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How do you know that when firearms are all too common criminals will not resort to shoot first, take your wallet later?

Because firearms are already "all too common", and have been for decades. And yet the criminals don't routinely walk up to people and execute them for their wallets.

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The possibility of being harmed if you act like an ass is a natural law worlwide. However the possibilite of being killed if you act like an ass is not that common at all. I would say just Florida so far.

You're acting like an ass by assuming that the citizens of Florida are going to start murdering people willy-nilly. And yet, no one is shooting you over it!

JohnRich · October 4, 2005

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But this organization is only warning about one new gun law, for the purpose of inducing fear to hurt the tourism industry, to punish the state for not defeating this law as they would have wished.

I see that. However, they have an agenda, and that is what theey are suppose to do. It is not like the NRA have such high morals that do not resort to tricks, like that.

Please provide an example of how the NRA has resorted to such a tactic. Put up.

JohnRich · October 4, 2005

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It been proven over and over again that it works, and confirmed by interviews with felons

That is not true, you are much more likely to end up shot in the U.S than in Europe for a robery, so it is not proven at all. But of course if the felons say so, we will have to believe them...

Your argument is in want of some logic. You don't judge the effect of concealed gun carry laws in America by comparing crime rates with Europe.

The proper comparison for judging the change from that variable is to compare crime rates before and after the change in law in the place where the law was passed - the U.S.

And with 40+ states now issuing concealed handgun licenses to citizens, crime rates are at a 30-year low. Even after the so-called assault weapon ban expired a year ago. This shows that allowing citizens to carry guns, does not have a disasterous effect upon crime rates.

U.S. Crime

kallend · October 4, 2005

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Quote
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It been proven over and over again that it works, and confirmed by interviews with felons

That is not true, you are much more likely to end up shot in the U.S than in Europe for a robery, so it is not proven at all. But of course if the felons say so, we will have to believe them...

Your argument is in want of some logic. You don't judge the effect of concealed gun carry laws in America by comparing crime rates with Europe.

The proper comparison for judging the change from that variable is to compare crime rates before and after the change in law in the place where the law was passed - the U.S.

And with 40+ states now issuing concealed handgun licenses to citizens, crime rates are at a 30-year low. Even after the so-called assault weapon ban expired a year ago. This shows that allowing citizens to carry guns, does not have a disasterous effect upon crime rates.

U.S. Crime

Crime rates are also declining in states without CCW. The northeastern states had the largest drop in violent crime so far this year. I don't see that it shows anything conclusive.

from your own source:

... the FBI found a 3.6 percent decrease in murders between 2003 and 2004 -- from 16,500 to 15,910. Chicago's lower rate was largely responsible for the decrease.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

mnealtx · October 5, 2005

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That is not true, you are much more likely to end up shot in the U.S than in Europe for a robery, so it is not proven at all. But of course if the felons say so, we will have to believe them...

It *IS* true and has been verified for the U.S. - again, your bias is showing.

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I base it on when there is a murder on the road, the crime has been commited almost always with a gun, rarely with a knife, and never with bare hands. I am talking about Spain and just road shot outs.

Again, what makes you think that you're in so much more danger of being killed in Florida as compared to Spain. I state again: don't be an asshole and you won't have problems with anyone that would be affected by this law.

Of course, the *criminals* don't give a shit either way....

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I am saying that if i had a weapon and i was allowed to shoot to kill on the basis of my perception of what it is a mortal threat, i would be more likely to wrongly kill someone that if the law didn´t back just my perceptions up.

This sounds to me like you'd be more likely to do it since you could "get away with it".... is this actually what you mean? If not, could you explain yourself a bit more?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

kallend · October 5, 2005

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That is not true, you are much more likely to end up shot in the U.S than in Europe for a robery, so it is not proven at all. But of course if the felons say so, we will have to believe them...

It *IS* true and has been verified for the U.S. - again, your bias is showing.

....

Again, what makes you think that you're in so much more danger of being killed in Florida as compared to Spain. I state again: don't be an asshole and you won't have problems with anyone that would be affected by this law.

Florida's homicide rate currently runs around 5.4 per 100k, and Spain's is 1.02 Which means Florida's rate is more than 5 times Spain's

Florida's homicide rate has been rising for the last 2 years, in contrast to the national trend, which is down.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

mnealtx · October 5, 2005

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Quote
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That is not true, you are much more likely to end up shot in the U.S than in Europe for a robery, so it is not proven at all. But of course if the felons say so, we will have to believe them...

It *IS* true and has been verified for the U.S. - again, your bias is showing.

....

Again, what makes you think that you're in so much more danger of being killed in Florida as compared to Spain. I state again: don't be an asshole and you won't have problems with anyone that would be affected by this law.

Florida's homicide rate currently runs around 5.4 per 100k, and Spain's is 1.02 Which means Florida's rate is more than 5 times Spain's

Florida's homicide rate has been rising for the last 2 years, in contrast to the national trend, which is down.

Thank you for the information, John.

My point is still valid. He's talking about being afraid of someone shooting him for flipping them the bird or something.

I state again:
If he's not acting like an asshole, his chances of being yelled at / beaten up / shot are probably comparable to his home town in Spain.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

mr2mk1g · October 5, 2005

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If he's not acting like an asshole, his chances of being yelled at / beaten up / shot are probably comparable to his home town in Spain.

Kind of. If he's not acting like an asshole his chances of being [involved in some kind of violent confrontation] are probably comparable to his home town in Spain.

His overall chances of being beaten up are (I'm guessing, based on general trends) probably less in Florida than in Spain (although I might be wrong – I've not looked).

His overall chances of being shot are however, greater in Florida than in Spain. There are far more shootings in Florida than in Spain... statistically he's more likely to be involved in such an event there than at home.

What we are unable to do is say why those people who are shot or beaten up are involved in such events. There is rarely much reliable statistical data on why people are involved in such incidents. It's never their fault after all. It's therefore very difficult to say whether or not acting like an asshole is more or less likely in each country to get him involved in any specific kind of incident over another.

I don't think that any of this though has very much to do with this new law nor do I think it's particularly a reason to stay home... but it is a fact of life.

mnealtx · October 5, 2005

I agree, in general...it's always possible to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My issue was with the attitutude that people would be actively looking to shoot him...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

JohnRich · October 5, 2005

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Crime rates are also declining in states without CCW.

I didn't claim that CCW was responsible for the drop in crime. I'm saying that all those tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of people carrying guns didn't cause crime to go up, as was predicted by the anti-gun folks. So at worst, licensed gun carry is just a neutral factor, and therefore nothing to be concerned about.

I thought you would like that "Chicago" quote in the news story.

kallend · October 5, 2005

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Crime rates are also declining in states without CCW.

I didn't claim that CCW was responsible for the drop in crime. I'm saying that all those tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of people carrying guns didn't cause crime to go up, as was predicted by the anti-gun folks. So at worst, licensed gun carry is just a neutral factor, and therefore nothing to be concerned about.

Well, the violent crime rate dropped most in the northeast, where non CCW states are clustered, and Illinois.

Quote

I thought you would like that "Chicago" quote in the news story.

Thank you, very thoughtful of you.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

christelsabine · October 5, 2005

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I agree, in general...it's always possible to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My issue was with the attitutude that people would be actively looking to shoot him...

Where would you draw the line about someone's attitude??
I'm passing you, give you a little smile and go my way.
For you, I'm just another stupid tourist enjoying wonderful Florida (which I did 3 times, I mean, enjoying Florida).

For next idiot/junky/drunken one: I am a menace, someone, who's laughing about him, in worst case, a provocation... he'll pull out his colt and shoot me.

Folks, that's not normal. That simply means: My life is/I am depending on someone's mood, his brain, if present or not....We all know how simple it it to misunderstand the next one. Not only in languages.

As soon as I enter Florida, give me a hand gun and I will find my way through the country and its night life. Yep. That'll be much better than chasing black bear in Canada....

What a weird world.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

mnealtx · October 6, 2005

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Where would you draw the line about someone's attitude??
I'm passing you, give you a little smile and go my way.
For you, I'm just another stupid tourist enjoying wonderful Florida (which I did 3 times, I mean, enjoying Florida).

For next idiot/junky/drunken one: I am a menace, someone, who's laughing about him, in worst case, a provocation... he'll pull out his colt and shoot me.

And what makes you think some idiot/junkie/drunk couldn't have done that on your prior visits?

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Folks, that's not normal. That simply means: My life is/I am depending on someone's mood, his brain, if present or not....We all know how simple it it to misunderstand the next one. Not only in languages.

That was the case on your prior visits, as well. This law changes nothing in regards to someone that is looking for an excuse to do violence. What it *DOES* do is give someone that is being actively threatened and *IN FEAR OF THEIR LIFE* the ability to protect themself rather than giving the criminal several chances at them.

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As soon as I enter Florida, give me a hand gun and I will find my way through the country and its night life. Yep. That'll be much better than chasing black bear in Canada....

No problem....will you have a G3 for me next time I fly into Frankfurt?

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What a weird world.

Indeed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

JohnRich · October 6, 2005

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Me: But this organization is only warning about one new gun law, for the purpose of inducing fear to hurt the tourism industry, to punish the state for not defeating this law as they would have wished.

You: I see that. However, they have an agenda, and that is what theey are suppose to do. It is not like the NRA have such high morals that do not resort to tricks, like that.

Me: Please provide an example of how the NRA has resorted to such a tactic. Put up.

Still waiting...

Botellines · October 8, 2005

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Me: Please provide an example of how the NRA has resorted to such a tactic. Put up.

Still waiting...

jraf · October 8, 2005

honestly , just shoot the motherfucker first... of course it will cost

2$ per bullet

if you do it right

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

Gawain · October 8, 2005

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Quote

Me: Please provide an example of how the NRA has resorted to such a tactic. Put up.

Still waiting...

How about contributing economicly for the republican party.

JohnRich · October 9, 2005

Quote
Quote

Me: Please provide an example of how the NRA has resorted to such a tactic. Put up.

Still waiting...

How about contributing economicly for the republican party.

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New Florida Gun Law. "Shoot First"

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