Do you think gas shortages are coming?

[kelpdiver 2]

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How about just getting rid of every current car made by Dodge?

You know, I've long thought this!

I don't think it's just about engine power - it looks like they just can't design equilivent vehicles that are as efficient as the others.

[justinb138 0]

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How about just getting rid of every current car made by Dodge?

You know, I've long thought this!

I don't think it's just about engine power - it looks like they just can't design equilivent vehicles that are as efficient as the others.

I'm sure they can, they just won't.

I see Toyota commercials bragging about 9 models that get over 30mpg, yet I don't think I've seen a Dodge commercial that even mentions how fuel effecient their vehicles are. I'm betting that advertising that half their cars get 12-14mpg isn't a good marketing idea.

I'd be interested to see their sales figures for these last few months as well.

[RMURRAY 1]

I just read that smart is reversing their decision and will sell the fourtwo in the US. Sign of the times...

[rhys 0]

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I mean can you see a hybrid car pulling a 25foot enclosed trailer full of cabinets for a house, or see one hauling a horse trailer, farm equipment? It might just be where I live, but alot of the vehicles people in my area own they need.

do they really 'need' huge vehicles?

agriculture is the primary industry in new zealand. most of the farmers here use Toyota Hilux Utililty vehicles. these have a 3litre turbo diesel engine. they go anywhere. if thats too small. use a tractor and if that is inapropriate use a truck. there is no need to haul a 4 ton truck around to pick up a couple of carcasses or check the fenceline.

nissan and mitsubishi make similar products. when i see an american vehicle here it looks out of place to me. our infrastructure was not built for such behemoths.

those chrysler crossfires look nice though what size/configuration engine do they have?they look quite small compared to most american cars.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Anvilbrother 0]

Like I said before I agree with everyone that people who dont need to be driving a land barge around for nothing needs to get something smaller, but what do we do about the people that need such vehicles. If we kinda "phase" them out what will it do the prices of these vehicles. A poor home builder that needs a big vehicle for his work, can he afford it if it drives the price up? The largest vehicle that most people have around here are 5.2L powerstrokes that weigh about 2 tons.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kelpdiver 2]

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The largest vehicle that most people have around here are 5.2L powerstrokes that weigh about 2 tons.

Are you kidding? Lots of sedans weight close to that. A large number of the soccer mom SUVs are far bigger.

And that's the problem at hand. There aren't that many people in Los Angeles with the needs you mention. I really don't know how you separate them apart. I just know that the status quo isn't good for us.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Your right I was thinking a ton was 4000lbs and not 2000

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Sen.Blutarsky 0]

We have substantial snowfall and high velocity persistent winds screaming outta Canada to deal with both here in Chicago and in my home state of Michigan during each winter driving season, which occupies roughly five months each year, I blame Canada for this incidently.

What we see is that light vehicles powered only by two wheels, which can be quite suitable for driving in other parts of the U.S., tend not to cut it here during the critical winter months when people freeze to death after they skid off a road into a ravine during whiteouts etc. American and Japanese pickup trucks fishtail out in these conditions when true four-wheel drive and CG'd vehicle mass, to include deadweight ballast sometimes, gets you home safely. My only point is that vehicle choice depends on more than volume, tow capacity or prestige, and any intended replacement must address the issues I raised or it won't be successful where I live here in the states.


Blutarsky 2008. No Prisoners!

[rhys 0]

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What we see is that light vehicles powered only by two wheels, which can be quite suitable for driving in other parts of the U.S., tend not to cut it here during the critical winter months when people freeze to death after they skid off a road into a ravine during whiteouts etc. American and Japanese pickup trucks fishtail out in these conditions when true four-wheel drive and CG'd vehicle mass, to include deadweight ballast sometimes, gets you home safely.

i think you'll find toyota hilux or nissan patrol or mitsubishi pajero(pajero means wanker in spanish) would be suitable in your conditions. they 'are' true 4wd. my mate hurls 2 sleds up snow covewred mud tracks with a hilux (a skidoo summit and a mx-rev)one on a trailer and one on the tray.modified suspention and 3.0 turbo diesel. 5litre petrol engines are grossly unessecary. and are purely a status symbol.

if you want to cruise in style then a prado is the bomb.4wd
u.s. cars are too big.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I mean can you see a hybrid car pulling a 25foot enclosed trailer full of cabinets for a house, or see one hauling a horse trailer, farm equipment? It might just be where I live, but alot of the vehicles people in my area own they need.

Freight trains are diesel-electric.

[Anvilbrother 0]

They are diesel motors driving electric right? That is different plus they are on a bigger scale. Although I hear that GE evolution (?) train is a bad ass mofo

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 2,150]

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I mean can you see a hybrid car pulling a 25foot enclosed trailer full of cabinets for a house, or see one hauling a horse trailer, farm equipment? It might just be where I live, but alot of the vehicles people in my area own they need.

Freight trains are diesel-electric.

I don't think the issue is correct horses for courses. It's folks commuting single driver into major metro areas in Hummers, Navigators and Landcrusiers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diverborg 0]

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i think you'll find toyota hilux or nissan patrol or mitsubishi pajero(pajero means wanker in spanish) would be suitable in your conditions. they 'are' true 4wd.

I don't know about other parts of the country, but I have never seen nor heard of these vehicles before. If they were marketed here more maybe more people would use them. Maybe someone here has more info on this, but how much more does a hybrid cost than a standard engine. Even if the extra cost can be paid off in gas prices eventually, how long do these cars last in comparison and what is the cost of maintenance on one of these. I have a hard time seeing a hybrid lasting 200,000 miles with as limited maintenance as standard vehicle. I could be wrong and it would be nice to crunch some numbers to find out overall cost effectiveness.

[Channman 2]

Hey, I'll have you know my Navigator get better than 10 miles to the gallon.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Hey, I'll have you know my Navigator get better than 10 miles to the gallon.

Does that include the ride to altitude?

[kallend 2,150]

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Hey, I'll have you know my Navigator get better than 10 miles to the gallon.

Is that city driving, or around the farm?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[justinb138 0]

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A poor home builder that needs a big vehicle for his work, can he afford it if it drives the price up? The largest vehicle that most people have around here are 5.2L powerstrokes that weigh about 2 tons.

Poor homebuilder? Kinda funny, I've never seen or heard of a poor homebuilder, especially in this area. The one I knew personally just sold his 4000sq ft house to buy something bigger.

Most of the builders I see around here have big F-350s or similar sized Dodge trucks, but I never see them being used for anything that a standard sized truck couldn't handle.

I think part of the reason they have such massive trucks that they don't need is due to the huge tax break they get for buying trucks over 6000lb (Tax Code 179 I believe).

More info on that is available here:

http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-deduction-list.htm

[billvon 3,120]

> American and Japanese pickup trucks fishtail out in these conditions >when true four-wheel drive and CG'd vehicle mass, to include
>deadweight ballast sometimes, gets you home safely.

I agree. I will never forget one snowy day in Utah. We were driving to Alta, and the snow was really falling. We started up the road into Alta in a long line of buses, rental cars, SUV's and pickup trucks. We had a rented Subaru Legacy with snow tires. As we climbed, the pickup trucks started pulling over to put chains on, and the SUV's pulled over to figure out how to lock their front hubs. A lot of them never got off the shoulder back onto the road; the snow was falling that fast.

By the time we got to the top the only vehicles left on the road were the small 4WD vehicles (the Subarus, a few of the snow-tire SUV's) and the big buses, plus a few loaded 4WD pickups that had put chains on early. We heard later that a lot of the vehicles by the side of the road had to be abandoned; the plows covered them so deep that it took days to dig them out.

[RMURRAY 1]

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A poor home builder that needs a big vehicle for his work, can he afford it if it drives the price up? The largest vehicle that most people have around here are 5.2L powerstrokes that weigh about 2 tons.

Poor homebuilder? Kinda funny, I've never seen or heard of a poor homebuilder, especially in this area. The one I knew personally just sold his 4000sq ft house to buy something bigger.

Most of the builders I see around here have big F-350s or similar sized Dodge trucks, but I never see them being used for anything that a standard sized truck couldn't handle.

I think part of the reason they have such massive trucks that they don't need is due to the huge tax break they get for buying trucks over 6000lb (Tax Code 179 I believe).

I live in Canada, I wish we had the choice of small cars from Europe. The would sell like hotcakes. I think the US is another story.

Hybrids are good for the city. For crusing at speed for hours on the highway - modern (read European) turbo diesels are better. A diesel electric would be cool. by this I mean only electric drive with the small diesel running constant charging batteries. Might as well make it all wheel drive for the winter up here...

rm

More info on that is available here:

http://www.selfemployedweb.com/suv-tax-deduction-list.htm

[billvon 3,120]

>A diesel electric would be cool. by this I mean only electric drive with the
> small diesel running constant charging batteries. Might as well make it all
> wheel drive for the winter up here...

The new Toyota hybrid SUV's do 4WD by having a small electric motor driving the back wheels. Pretty elegant; no driveshaft or mechanical drag when you don't need it.

[RMURRAY 1]

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>A diesel electric would be cool. by this I mean only electric drive with the
> small diesel running constant charging batteries. Might as well make it all
> wheel drive for the winter up here...

The new Toyota hybrid SUV's do 4WD by having a small electric motor driving the back wheels. Pretty elegant; no driveshaft or mechanical drag when you don't need it.

someday all the wheels will be driven this way. I am not big on hybrids - Reneault/Nissan are not either - they say high tech diesel is fine. However, hybrids are a good step to develop electric drive trains and get where we need to go --- finally get rid of the internal combustion engine and move on to (hydrogen) fuel cells. produce hydrogen by using renewables (hydro, wind, geothermal, solar etc) as much as possible and nuclear for the rest...

rm

rm

[billvon 3,120]

>finally get rid of the internal combustion engine and move on to
>(hydrogen) fuel cells.

Hydrogen fuel cells are a big mistake IMO. Right now hydrogen is made from gasoline, and that's silly. There is much talk about hydrogen generated through electrolysis, but we don't have the electricity to spare. If we did, it would make FAR more sense to just use that extra electricity to shut down coal fired power plants. Coal power plants kill more americans than any other industry.

If someday we do have the power available, it makes a lot more sense to just charge batteries with the excess and run cars on that. The RAV4-EV had a range of 125 miles, and a pluggable hybrid version of the RAV4-EV would allow basically unlimited range with 99% electric-only operation.

If you don't like batteries, then it makes more sense to generate hydrogen and then convert it to methane via the Sabatier process. It's almost as easy, methane is easier to transport, store and use, we have a lot of it already, we can get it from renewable sources (biogas) and cars can burn it right now (the Honda Civic GX.) That car has an IC engine, but you can just as easily run a fuel cell or a Stirling engine with it, and they are all about as clean (only exhaust is CO2 and H2O.)

[Channman 2]

Yea, I know its a gassahollic, and after putting almost 100.00 into it to fill it up I'm looking on getting one of them there cars Bill was telling me about in a previous thread.

Hell you think driving is expensive, try filling the plane with 100LL, RV-7A with a 200 hp Subaru just around the corner, just about ready for the taxi test.

[RMURRAY 1]

all electric vehicles were tried - and did not work out. a break-though in battery technology was needed (to extend range and reduce weight) and never happened.

fuel cells using compressed hydrogen are coming - it is just a matter of when.

agreed, burning coal for electricity should be banned by developed countries. Ontario (a province of Canada) is closing all coal burning power plants by 2007 to help meet Kyoto targets - at least they are doing something right!

rm

[kallend 2,150]

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Yea, I know its a gassahollic, and after putting almost 100.00 into it to fill it up I'm looking on getting one of them there cars Bill was telling me about in a previous thread.

Hell you think driving is expensive, try filling the plane with 100LL, RV-7A with a 200 hp Subaru just around the corner, just about ready for the taxi test.

I bet my Mooney gets better gas mileage than your Navigator.

Good luck with the RV test flights. Make sure the ailerons are connected right way around.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.