Some good news for a change - biodiesel

[JohnRich 4]

[devil's advocate]

That just adds to the refinery complications, which already have to produce dozens of different blends to satisfy various state laws and commercial offerings. It means that refineries will be shut down temporarily while they switch over to produce a batch of soy diesal. And that means that there is less of regular diesal available, because production is cut-off during the switch-over.

I predict that truckers will find themselves unable to purchase sufficient quantities of soy-diesal within that state, and will just resort to buying the usual blend outside the state borders.

It's only going to worsen the refinery and distribution problems. This feel-good measure will cause nothing but heartache for the consumers.

And it can't be good for an engine to get a bean stuck in a fuel injector.

[/devil's advocate]

[billvon 3,111]

>Hadn't heard that about ethanol, Bill. How did they manage that?

Minor process improvements. When ethanol was first produced it was heavily subsidized; this provided incentives to build ethanol plants but not make them very efficient. Now that there is significant competition within the market, there's more pressure to make them efficient. The changes are all relatively simple process changes; better insulation on fermentation tanks, better heat reclamation during distillation, more tweaked yeasts, larger batches.

[billvon 3,111]

>I predict that truckers will find themselves unable to purchase
> sufficient quantities of soy-diesal within that state, and will just
> resort to buying the usual blend outside the state borders.

And I predict that enterprising farmers will see an oppprtunity to fill this gap with SVO and B100. I know, it doesn't put any money in the pockets of big oil, but sometimes it's OK if the little guy wins.

>This feel-good measure will cause nothing but heartache for the consumers.

Only if they own a lot of oil company stock in the less-forward-thinking oil companies.

[TheAnvil 0]

Ahhh...the power of the market proves itself once again.

I've been a biodiesel proponent for years. I truly hope its time has come.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[jumpinfarmer 0]

It won't have any afect on the refineries. Bio-Diesel is added at the distribution point. Regular diesel is sent to a tank farm/distribution area and bio diesel is blended as needed.

The same goes with ethanol.

Anyone saying that adding a bio fuel such as Bio diesel or ethanol will increase fuel prices is just doing so to scare people away from using them, or has a vested interest in BIG OIL. Ethanol and bio diesel production adds to the total domestic production of all motor fuels which is what really drives the market.

[jumpinfarmer 0]

Minnesota also is proposing to require that 20% of all fuel used in the state come from renewable sources. That doesn't mean that they will require E-20 gasoline or B-20 diesel fuel but just that at least 20% of the total fuel would have to be from a renewable source.

[dbattman 0]

I did some checking and it turns out quite a few newer model domestic cars are already 'green' cars that can handle up to E-85.

Is your car bi-fuel ready?

[rehmwa 2]

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It won't have any afect on the refineries. Bio-Diesel is added at the distribution point.

This is good to know and helps us understand why it's maybe not such a bad thing. thanks for a constructive point rather than the typical rant.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GTAVercetti 0]

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It won't have any afect on the refineries. Bio-Diesel is added at the distribution point.

This is good to know and helps us understand why it's maybe not such a bad thing. thanks for a constructive point rather than the typical rant.

And besides, I am sure the smart oil companies will be all over it anyway. BP owns and sells lots of solar already, so I am sure they will get in this market if it grows.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,111]

>I did some checking and it turns out quite a few newer model
>domestic cars are already 'green' cars that can handle up to E-85.

Yep. Actually, most modern cars can handle E85 without much trouble. Most are not 'rated' for it, so you void your warranty if you use E85 (and if it causes a problem, and if you admit to using it.) But their fuel systems can adjust mixtures over a wide enough range that the change in ratio isn't a problem.

[JohnRich 4]

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It won't have any afect on the refineries. Bio-Diesel is added at the distribution point. Regular diesel is sent to a tank farm/distribution area and bio diesel is blended as needed.

So what happens if the soy additive is not available? Would that mean that all diesel vehicles, basically all trucking, in the entire state would be shut down?

[GTAVercetti 0]

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It won't have any afect on the refineries. Bio-Diesel is added at the distribution point. Regular diesel is sent to a tank farm/distribution area and bio diesel is blended as needed.

So what happens if the soy additive is not available? Would that mean that all diesel vehicles, basically all trucking, in the entire state would be shut down?

They are not replacing all fuel, just a percent. I imagine if there is a soy drought, they will allow regular fuel to be used instead of going into economic collapse.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 3,111]

>So what happens if the soy additive is not available?

Then they import some, and out-of-state farmers make money. Or they use processed SVO, and food companies make money.

[rhino 0]

I like the fact that I can run my diesel off of pure vegetable oil.. If the farmers would start producing more I would buy it...

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I like the fact that I can run my diesel off of pure vegetable oil.. If the farmers would start producing more I would buy it...

Fryer oil.

There is a commune in Minnesota that uses old fyer oil to run their cars. They ue bio-diesel to get it started and heat the oil. Once it is hot enough, they switch over to the veggie oil

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[freeryde13 0]

damn, i lebertarian mayor and now this, minn. is pretty damn progressive. i've only got 54 more payments and then i'll be looking for something deisal powered.

_________________________________________

people see me as a challenge to their balance

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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And I predict that enterprising farmers will see an oppprtunity to fill this gap with SVO and B100. I know, it doesn't put any money in the pockets of big oil, but sometimes it's OK if the little guy wins.

I think you mean the medium sized guy wins. If we start burning food in our cars and trucks there will be huge pressures on the price. I doubt the world's poor are all that exited.

[SpeedRacer 1]

correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem to me that biodiesel would be more efficient than ethanol in terms of energy produced/energy expended.

Biodiesel doesn't need to be distilled. Doesn't distillation require lots of energy?

Speed Racer
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[billvon 3,111]

>If we start burning food in our cars and trucks there will be huge
>pressures on the price. I doubt the world's poor are all that exited.

As the poor in Africa eat millet (birdseed) I doubt that a lack of fried food will harm them any. The poor in the US who are living on a McDonald's diet may be forced to substitute baked potatoes for french fries though.

[jumpinfarmer 0]

Actually Bio diesel production has almost no effect on the food supply. The oil is removed from the beans and the meal is left for animal feed. This has been going on for decades but now there is a valuable use for the oil as fuel.

The same applies to ehanol production. The left overs, about 25% are dried out and sold as feed. DDGs as they are called are actually a better feed than whole ground corn. With ehanol you get about 2.8 gallons fuel and 15 lbs of feed from every 56lb bushel of corn.

In both cases shortages should not be worried about last year the US produced record corn and soybean crops and this seasons while not a record should be more than adequate. It must be the price of corn and beans SUCKS now.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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With ehanol you get about 2.8 gallons fuel and 15 lbs of feed from every 56lb bushel of corn.

Interesting. How does that break down by acre?

[RMURRAY 1]

farmland should be used to grow food - not fuel giant SUVs....

[mr2mk1g 10]

There's plenty enough farmland to grow all the food we need AND a load of fuel too. Each year we pay farmers millions not to grow food because we produce too much... that latent capacity could easily be harnessed to add to GDP rather than drain taxpayers money.

[billvon 3,111]

>farmland should be used to grow food - not fuel giant SUVs....

Farmland is already used to make clothing, rope, medicinal raw materials etc. Not much of a change. And growing fuel is a morally better alternative to growing tobacco, at least in my book.

[RMURRAY 1]

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>farmland should be used to grow food - not fuel giant SUVs....

Farmland is already used to make clothing, rope, medicinal raw materials etc. Not much of a change. And growing fuel is a morally better alternative to growing tobacco, at least in my book.

what percent of US farmland would need to be used for every gas station were to pump 85% ethanol gasoline. I can't remember the figure but I think it was impossible. Maybe 10% ethanol gasoline is possible? Conservation is a better route...