IMF to Forgive $40B in Debt

[Gawain 0]

Stories here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4277042.stm

and here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170313,00.html

How many handouts are needed? Didn't the IMF also do this in 1996?

I don't agree with the idea and it certainly isn't helping the poorer nations learn to stand on their own.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

It's dead easy to say when you're getting 3 squares a day. The MASSIVE gap between us and them is truely staggering. Yes some of their governments are even more corrupt than ours but how else do we help those kids, if you dont start to take our heels off of their necks?
Wiping out the debt is only half (actually a lot less) of the battle. They need help to manage change and be taught how to stand on their own 2 feet. At the moment, a lot of the poorer peoples of the world, simply dont have the strength to stand.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

I understand, but this erasure of $40B is only a preparatory step to releasing another $55B in new loans.

Additionally, these nations have been paying into the debt regularly over the past 30 years. It is sending the wrong message to have it disappear.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[bodypilot90 0]

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It's dead easy to say when you're getting 3 squares a day. The MASSIVE gap between us and them is truely staggering. Yes some of their governments are even more corrupt than ours but how else do we help those kids, if you dont start to take our heels off of their necks?
Wiping out the debt is only half (actually a lot less) of the battle. They need help to manage change and be taught how to stand on their own 2 feet. At the moment, a lot of the poorer peoples of the world, simply dont have the strength to stand.

it's even easier to give someone other peoples money. If I wanted to give away money I'll decide who i want to give it to. My heels are not on anyone's neck. Part of learning to stand on your won feet is paying your debts.

[kallend 2,146]

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It's dead easy to say when you're getting 3 squares a day. The MASSIVE gap between us and them is truely staggering. Yes some of their governments are even more corrupt than ours but how else do we help those kids, if you dont start to take our heels off of their necks?
Wiping out the debt is only half (actually a lot less) of the battle. They need help to manage change and be taught how to stand on their own 2 feet. At the moment, a lot of the poorer peoples of the world, simply dont have the strength to stand.

it's even easier to give someone other peoples money. If I wanted to give away money I'll decide who i want to give it to. My heels are not on anyone's neck. Part of learning to stand on your won feet is paying your debts.

Sure Is

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Hi ya

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(1)it's even easier to give someone other peoples money.(2) If I wanted to give away money I'll decide who i want to give it to. (3)My heels are not on anyone's neck. (4)Part of learning to stand on your won feet is paying your debts.

(1) Yeap, sure is, our governments do it all the time.

(2) So, you think that you decide where your money goes .... on a personal level - sure but our governments provide a proxy way of giving our money away and we have very little say.

(3) Our own boots are also on the necks of others by proxy.. Big powerful countries keep small ones down.

(4) It's a lot easy to stand on your own two feet if you're not in debt (you can see this this on a local leve with the poorer people in our own societies but it happens on a macro level too)

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[bodypilot90 0]

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(2) So, you think that you decide where your money goes .... on a personal level - sure but our governments provide a proxy way of giving our money away and we have very little say

we have our say when we vote!

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3) Our own boots are also on the necks of others by proxy.. Big powerful countries keep small ones down.

lol that sounds like something jesse jackson would say.

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(4) It's a lot easy to stand on your own two feet if you're not in debt (you can see this this on a local leve with the poorer people in our own societies but it happens on a macro level too

lets take it to a microlevel, I was in debt. Lots of it. I worked my way out of it. First step was not to borrow any more and work harder.

[bodypilot90 0]

1st step stop sending any money to the UN

[shropshire 0]

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we have our say when we vote!

-

sort of .... but we vote for an overall basket of policies not for individual issues or spending plans, so if both parties adopts similar fiscal policies or if you like a certain party for most of it's policies but not it's overseas spend... what do you do?

P.S great to hear about your result in (4).


.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,146]

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1st step stop sending any money to the UN

That's a drop in the bucket.

Bush has increased government spending some 30%+ over the last 4 years. $200B for a war he wanted so bad he lied about the reasons for it. And how much is Bush wasting on the NMD,a system that most independent experts agree will never achieve its objectives.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bodypilot90 0]

U guess you forgot about 9-11, to bad I have not!

[lawrocket 3]

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So, you think that you decide where your money goes .... on a personal level - sure but our governments provide a proxy way of giving our money away and we have very little say.

Milton Friedman explained that there are four ways to spend money: 1) Spend your own money on yourself; 2) Spend your own money on someone else; 3) Spend someone else's money on yourself; and 4) spend someone else's money on someone else.

Now, if the first is being done, the person spending the money would buy spend it on something the person wants or needs, and would want good value for it. Typically, this is the most efficient way of spending money. Looking at a car analogy, I'd want (for me) a safe car, comfortable and reasonable mileage for a good price, so I bought a Mercury Sable on unwind. Not a great car (I can't afford great) but it suits my needs and was at a good discounted price.

If the second is being done (using my money to buy someone else something), the spender will not care so much about what the person wants, and will not spend much on it. This is why your stocking were stuffed with socks and underwear as a kid, or why you don't get that righteous package of Reese's peanut butter cups when you went trick or treating. Using a car analogy, if I'm buying someone a car with MY money, I'd buy the person some cheap old jalopy.

If you are spending other people's money on yourself, well, then, you get what you want and the price does not matter! If someone else's money bought my car I wouldn't be driving that Mercury Sable I purchased as an unwind. If I had someone else's moey to buy my car, I'd have bought that Audi or Volvo Sedan.

Finally, if I'm spending other people's money for other people, I wouldn't care what they got, what the quality of it was, or how much it cost. I sure as hell wouldn't be getting other people free stuff that is better than my Mercury - they'd all get used cars from whomever can sell me the most at the cheapest price. That would probably mean that everyone would get a subcompact car - even if they have a family of 6. I don't care what they want or who's buying it. I'll just get it done, and screw you if you bitch about it.

So, the last example is government in action. The problem with the debt relief is that it does not allow natural market corrections to take place.

Back a few years ago, the IMF bailed out banks in four Asian countries - South Korea, Indonesia, Philippines, and Thailand. This was to the tune of about $120 billion. The Clinton Administration (with Republican Congress approval) shelled out about $20 billion for this bailout. This was around the time that the Japanese were bailing out their own banks.

What did this lead to? We've got Japan bailing out its fifth largest bank for $17 billion in 2003. The bailkouts don't punish mismanagement and do not allow the market to corect itself. The need for a bailout means a system is broken. The bailout itself means the broken system will continue.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,146]

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U guess you forgot about 9-11, to bad I have not!

Bush himself has said that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, so I guess your memory is failing.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks - nice post..

But actually (not just the last) but the last 2 are our governments under 2 different circumstances...

Last but one is our government, spending our money on things that they think that we like and they want (in the case of the USA... Star Wars, space in general....) big price ticket and political clout stuff.. Stuff that makes them look good in the tax payers eyes.

The last one, is foreign aid ... we dont want to give but we look cheap if we dont..

I also agree with your summary, the system is broken but my take is that it's not the poor that broke it.. we (collectively) did.

We dont help, when we have companies (like say Bechtel) going into foriegn countries, setting up a water supply (sounds good so far) ... but not for charity... then charging the locals rather high water tarrifs.

Throwing good money after bad is just plain dumb.. but you have to start somewhere.... Personaly, I cannt afford to give time, so I cop out and give money... but how much reaches the end point (I dont know, but I'm not so daft as to think that all does....) Am I helping? Superficially, yes but it's not going to rock anyones world... I guess what I'm trying to say, is that we in the overly rich west (consumers of most of the planets resources!!) need to give back but it's going to take a major step change to make any real progress.

Here ends this evenings lesson..

Have a great evening, I'm off to my pit.

.

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

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NMD,a system that most independent experts agree will never achieve its objectives.

Not to hijack my own thread, but recall that Star Wars reached an objective without ever coming into being.

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Bush has increased government spending some 30%+ over the last 4 years.

That would be congress, Bush just signed the bottom line. Personally, I wish he'd spend less -- especially the recently passed Transportation Bill.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,146]

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NMD,a system that most independent experts agree will never achieve its objectives.

Not to hijack my own thread, but recall that Star Wars reached an objective without ever coming into being.

Reagan was a lot smarter than "W",wasn't he? And his "evil empire" actually had alot invested in ICBMs.

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Bush has increased government spending some 30%+ over the last 4 years.

That would be congress, Bush just signed the bottom line. Personally, I wish he'd spend less -- especially the recently passed Transportation Bill.

Lame.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

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Bush has increased government spending some 30%+ over the last 4 years.

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That would be congress, Bush just signed the bottom line. Personally, I wish he'd spend less -- especially the recently passed Transportation Bill.

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Lame.

Lame, but true, isn't it? Frankly, we need a Democratic Congress right now to check W's power. If there's a Dem POTUS then we should have a Repub Congress.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[FallRate 0]

I personally like the Tom Griswold theory of balanced budgets: For every year that the budget is not balanced, a congressman, picked at random, is executed.

FallRate

[lawrocket 3]

I personally liek PJ O'Rourke's Circumcision Axiom - you can cut 20 percent off of everything, including the federal budget.

My wife is hotter than your wife.